Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Hive mind?
LTK:
--- Quote from: Milesb on 18 Feb 2012, 11:10 ---The concept of a Hive Mind scenario isn't one I particularly like. I know why but it's hard to put into words.
A hive mind as a form of collective conscious implies a direct loss of individual identity for each person. Now consider your beliefs; why do you hold them? Presumably because you think or feel that they are right. In a hive mind what defines the prevailing belief? - would it be majority? would it be after countless years of argument until the issue was actually decided within the hive mind?
If a hive mind is the composite of all it's components, do you think the human race is ready for that? We have racism, extremism, sexism, exploitation and a lot more that we do as a race that is terrible. What if there were more people who believed in any one of those things than people who did not in a hive mind?
I think I've got it down to an understandable sentence or two! woo! here we go:
Just because a decision or belief is collective doesn't actually make it right (or wrong) because there's no evidence (That I'm aware of) that the wider the group-base the more accurate/right it is.
Edit: Essentially it creates conformity, but there's no guarantee that the conformity it creates would actually be equal, fair or just, which to me seems to be the driving reasons for a hive mind situation. (at least personally)
--- End quote ---
No, you're completely missing the point. How can, for example, sexism against women be held if the minds of half the world's population can disprove whatever erroneous belief someone holds about women in general? We all know that most racist and sexist beliefs are factually wrong. They can't persist if the people they are held about are there to dispel them.
--- Quote from: Kugai on 18 Feb 2012, 11:38 ---Agreed
That was the point of my little one liner above. Humans becoming a hive mind has it's dangers, the best 'Example' of how such an idea might go wrong is The Borg from Star Trek. It shows how what might have started out as a good idea of sharing thoughts and concepts etc can go badly wrong and lead to the kind of corrupted 'Search For Perfection' scenario that created the Borg and lead them to become what they are in the Series.
The flip side of that, just to show there is one, is the Bynars who featured earlier on in TNG. Also a hive mind species of humanoids. They, however, represent a much more benign version of the hive mind. It's a pity they didn't feature more, especially after the introduction of The Borg. It would have been interesting to see the two play off each other.
--- End quote ---
What, do you really expect me to argue with "Hive minds are bad, just look at the Borg"?
Milesb:
--- Quote from: LTK on 18 Feb 2012, 14:53 ---No, you're completely missing the point. How can, for example, sexism against women be held if the minds of half the world's population can disprove whatever erroneous belief someone holds about women in general? We all know that most racist and sexist beliefs are factually wrong. They can't persist if the people they are held about are there to dispel them.
--- End quote ---
As much as I'd prefer to be missing the point, I politely disagree with your opinion. Sexism against women can be perpetuated by women very easily - if you assume you need to be a man to be sexist against women then I'm afraid you are woefully ignorant of the sexism displayed towards women by women (as absurd as it sounds) and goes to show exactly my point: assuming a hive mind is entirely factual is an assumption - If it's not factual, what is it? - it is potentially the very worst beliefs we all share as well as all the best ones.
You're assuming everyone is like you - but that's the point - Everyone thinks a Hive Mind situation would somehow end up with the "right" "correct" and "just" ideas winning out - wether that's based on logic, fact, belief or emotion doesn't matter, all that matters is that everyone thinking about a Hive Mind situation essentially assumes their opinions would be passed on to everyone.
And that makes it highly improbable for any individual to be correct when you consider everyone can't be right all at once.
LTK:
Yeah, I think I see what you're getting at. You're justifiably suspicious that I'm assuming everybody in a hive mind will be able to see my point of view, but it's not really that. I just assume that everybody in a hive mind will be able to see the correct point of view. My personal point of view is that humans gather knowledge with which they build their viewpoints, knowledge which may be incorrect or simply incomplete. If you gather more knowledge, you're able to refine or adapt the viewpoints that were previously built on incorrect or incomplete knowledge. If this knowledge can be transferred easily from person to person, everyone's viewpoints are able to be refined efficiently. So it's actually highly improbable that any individual is incorrect if knowledge can be shared collectively.
Of course, this all hinges on all humans actually being able to critically evaluate their own viewpoints. I still can't be sure if everyone really possesses this ability.
(Regarding sexism toward women by women; you're right, I have no idea.)
DSL:
--- Quote from: Milesb on 18 Feb 2012, 15:08 ---... And that makes it highly improbable for any individual to be correct when you consider everyone can't be right all at once.
--- End quote ---
Which, one would hope, would be an obstacle toward establishment of a hive mind. However, "majority" and "right" aren't necessarily the same. Pick an election, any election, and look at how many people voted for the bum you didn't like, especially if s/he won.
jwhouk:
--- Quote from: DSL on 18 Feb 2012, 17:12 ---
--- Quote from: Milesb on 18 Feb 2012, 15:08 ---... And that makes it highly improbable for any individual to be correct when you consider everyone can't be right all at once.
--- End quote ---
Which, one would hope, would be an obstacle toward establishment of a hive mind. However, "majority" and "right" aren't necessarily the same. Pick an election, any election, and look at how many people voted for the bum you didn't like, especially if s/he won.
--- End quote ---
Or you could just look at what's going on in my home state of Wisconsin.
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