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English is weird
Case:
--- Quote from: snubnose on 20 Feb 2020, 03:28 ---
--- Quote from: cybersmurf on 05 Sep 2019, 07:18 ---TBH, out of context "Rechner" means calculator.
--- End quote ---
No.
"Rechner" means computer.
Calculator is called "Taschenrechner" (translated word by word: pocket computer).
Never heard anyone shortening "Taschenrechner" to just "Rechner".
--- End quote ---
Neither have I, but I'd hesitate to lecture a fellow Germanophone (cybersmurf is Austrian) about our shared mother-tongue.
As to Computer and Calculator: I struggle to remember what the difference even is - the explanation of this site here seems dubious (I doubt that anyone used electronic calculators before the 20th century, and the main functional difference they cite appears to be akin to parallel vs. sequential operation). IIRC 'computer' was once a bona-fide job performed by humans. Persistent human errors lead to the invention of Babbage's Difference engine via a requirement by the Royal Navy, methinks - after a RN Destroyer was shipwrecked due to a tiny error in a logarithm table complied by humans.
--- Quote from: cybersmurf on 05 Sep 2019, 07:18 ---it gets weird if foreign words get Germanized and bent to German grammar.
I wonder how often English bastardises words like that.
--- End quote ---
According to my former boss, this is actually a thing in English, too - as well as being a bona-fide research-subject in linguistics (His wife is also a professor at the local Uni, and the resident star-linguist). IIRC, he cited an example that originated with American Football-jargon, where a neologism used by football fans became widely used - but strikingly, the usage of the neologism followed grammar-rules that the original root-word did not.
--- Quote from: Cornelius on 20 Feb 2020, 04:11 ---Afrikaans follows the same logic, and has rekenaar and sakrekenaar for computer and calculator.
--- End quote ---
Do you understand spoken Afrikaans? My Dutch is very rusty, but I can usually follow the gist of a Dutch conversation - not so with Afrikaans.
Morituri:
FWIW, 'compute' vs 'calculate' in English is the difference between doing algebra (or higher) where you're working with symbols and figuring out how to rearrange equations so you can get the answer you need, and doing the straightforward addition, subtraction, division, and multiplication to transform the equation you computed into an actual numeric answer.
Or maybe, the difference between math that requires some understanding and insight about how to find the answer, and math that is just straightforward work that doesn't require you to think about anything beyond the elementary operations.
That said, the words get used interchangeably a lot - and now that computers are machines, people increasingly don't think of solving the more complex problems as 'computing' a solution any more.
cybersmurf:
--- Quote from: Case on 20 Feb 2020, 23:01 ---Neither have I, but I'd hesitate to lecture a fellow Germanophone (cybersmurf is Austrian) about our shared mother-tongue.
--- End quote ---
The biggest difference between Germany and Austria is the common language.
What throws off a lot of people, including Germans, is the difference in intonation.
--- Quote from: Case on 20 Feb 2020, 23:01 ---
--- Quote from: cybersmurf on 05 Sep 2019, 07:18 ---it gets weird if foreign words get Germanized and bent to German grammar.
I wonder how often English bastardises words like that.
--- End quote ---
According to my former boss, this is actually a thing in English, too - as well as being a bona-fide research-subject in linguistics (His wife is also a professor at the local Uni, and the resident star-linguist). IIRC, he cited an example that originated with American Football-jargon, where a neologism used by football fans became widely used - but strikingly, the usage of the neologism followed grammar-rules that the original root-word did not.
--- End quote ---
But every now and then, English follows the other language's grammar, like fiancé/e
Tova:
And blond(e).
Cornelius:
--- Quote from: Case on 20 Feb 2020, 23:01 ---
--- Quote from: cybersmurf on 05 Sep 2019, 07:18 ---it gets weird if foreign words get Germanized and bent to German grammar.
I wonder how often English bastardises words like that.
--- End quote ---
According to my former boss, this is actually a thing in English, too - as well as being a bona-fide research-subject in linguistics (His wife is also a professor at the local Uni, and the resident star-linguist). IIRC, he cited an example that originated with American Football-jargon, where a neologism used by football fans became widely used - but strikingly, the usage of the neologism followed grammar-rules that the original root-word did not.
--- Quote from: Cornelius on 20 Feb 2020, 04:11 ---Afrikaans follows the same logic, and has rekenaar and sakrekenaar for computer and calculator.
--- End quote ---
Do you understand spoken Afrikaans? My Dutch is very rusty, but I can usually follow the gist of a Dutch conversation - not so with Afrikaans.
--- End quote ---
It is a very interesting subject. I should probably dive back into it, one of these days.
Generally, I understand spoken Afrikaans better than some northern Dutch dialects, or Friesian. But then, some of those are obscure to anyone but the people of that region.
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