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English is weird
pwhodges:
Often the same distant origin word is imported with different meanings. But one case in which different routes to English give different spellings but the same meaning is the pair of words: "till" and "until". "Till" was not formed as an abbreviation of "until", but has its own separate history.
LTK:
I, for one, quixotically insist on the abbreviated version with apostrophe, and will do so 'til the day I die.
cybersmurf:
--- Quote from: Case on 16 Nov 2020, 03:06 ---
--- Quote from: N.N. Marf on 15 Nov 2020, 05:30 ---So.. his name's not like ``quick's oat?'' I've been saying it wrong for months (reading/discussing it) and no-one's said a peep about it. Some friends I have, letting me labor under that false impression.
--- End quote ---
Tangentially: You said you resent 'queer' since the orginal meaning was 'strange or crazy'. That's maybe true for the word's English usage history - but it's originally a loanword from Dutch and/or German. In German, 'quer' means 'orthogonal to' or 'not parallel to'. Tellingly, German LGBT+folk have adopted the English spelling & meaning, because 'quer' is both ubiquitous as well as rather innocuous. (Would that be a 're-import word'?)
So taken in its true 'original' meaning, queer would be rather apt - especially as it is often used within compound-nouns to signal 'something that is orthogonal to the dominant paradigm' (e.g 'querdenken' = 'thinking outside the box')
--- End quote ---
To an extent, you could translate "quer" as 'misaligned'.
Also, there's the expression "sich quer stellen", literally meaning something like "to turn/stand sideways". It mostly means blocking something (think it like a police car blocking a road/lane by turning sideways), more loosely it means being simply uncooperative. And being queer kinda means being uncooperative with the ("conservative") norm - at least in my eyes, simply because you have to be right now. Don't get me wrong in any way, I don't mean that in any way bad or degrading, it's actually a curageous thing, especially in certain areas on this space rock we call Earth.
--- Quote from: Morituri on 14 Nov 2020, 18:57 ---Okay, here's a thing. The word 'Quixotic' - denoting a great deal of effort spent on a cause clearly futile or unnecessary from the outset.
I grind my teeth every time I hear someone saying it "Quick Sot Tick" because long ago I remember that word as "Key Hoe Tick" - and then it occurred to me that I hadn't heard the correct pronunciation in a long time - even from pros, like TV news presenters.
--- End quote ---
Well, that word is quite something. It's an old Spanish spelling, or rather a spelling from a Spanish dialect that has vanished since (or more honestly, probably has been vanished). If you want to explain the difference to someone: ask them why they think it's written Mexico, but spoken as if spelled Mejico. There's a reason why in Spanish the Spanish language can be called "Espaņol" or "Castellano" interchangably.
There's a certain irony to the whole thing though: the institution founded by the Spanish government for promotion of teaching spanish and spanish culture is called "Instituto Cervantes", is named after Miguel de Cervantes, author of El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha...
N.N. Marf:
--- Quote from: Case on 16 Nov 2020, 03:06 ---but it's originally a loanword from Dutch and/or German. In German, 'quer' means 'orthogonal to' or 'not parallel to'. [...] So taken in its true 'original' meaning, queer would be rather apt - especially as it is often used within compound-nouns to signal 'something that is orthogonal to the dominant paradigm' (e.g 'querdenken' = 'thinking outside the box')
--- End quote ---
It's not that I'd resent it, but consider it inappropriate for what should be simply accepted as part of the world, rather than something in contrast to what's accepted. Something like `strange' or `weird' might be more emotionally charged, but the essence would be the same with `oblique' or 'orthogonal.' But I'm afraid I'd be underqualified to attempt suggesting alternatives.
--- Quote from: Case on 16 Nov 2020, 03:06 ---Tellingly, German LGBT+folk have adopted the English spelling & meaning, because 'quer' is both ubiquitous as well as rather innocuous. (Would that be a 're-import word'?)
--- End quote ---
If the analogy is `loan' words, that'd be foreclosure.
Tova:
In fact, Chambers has:
until /un-tilˈ or ən-tilˈ/
preposition and conjunction
Till
ORIGIN: Pfx und- as far as, and till1
till1 /til/
preposition
Up to the time of
To, towards (Scot)
To (with the infinitive) (Scot)
conjunction
Up to the time when
ORIGIN: OE (Northumbrian) til, from ON til; cf OE till a fixed point, Ger Ziel end, goal
TIL :claireface:
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