Fun Stuff > CHATTER
2012 Election
Method of Madness:
Is it the school's place or right to punish students for actions taken out of school? Mayhaps we need a thread for that question.
Papersatan:
--- Quote from: VonKleist on 15 Nov 2012, 05:59 ---
I mean, itīs good to get involved! No denying that someone should call people out on spouting this kind of racist bullshit, but Iīd respect it more if their respective social environment could do that. And if they live in an environment where itīs A-ok to call someone a racial slur then itīs probably too late and no amount of internet-hate will right this.
--- End quote ---
If you use Twitter, and these people have publically tweeted terrible things, then you *are* a part of their social community.
There has been a big push online lately to whine, very loudly, about people's freedom of speech.
Post suggestive pictures of underage girls online? Freeeeedom of speeeech!
Post terribly racist things about the president? Freeeeedom of speeeech!
Hound an online female persona with rape threats? Freeeeedom of speeeech!
These are all things which most people find to be objectionable behavior, and the way to address it is not by ignoring it. These people do have freedom of speech, (unless they are spouting specific and credible threats). But freedom of speech means the government can not, and should not, get involved. It does not mean that others in their community should not. Freedom of speech does not mean you are free from the consequences of your speech. In fact, if your speech was free from consequences it would likely not legally be "speech" anyways. Freedom of speech is meant to protect language based communication, so that public debate and discussion can take place without the government's interference. As much as someone has the freedom to tweet racist things about the president, someone else has the freedom to call them out on it, and should.
If you grew up in a sheltered and racist place, you may have grown up thinking that this sort of racism is normal and acceptable. But, you have the power as a rational person to assess you understanding, and to change it. They only way these people will realize that this is not ok is if people speak up, and speak up in numbers great enough that it becomes clear that most of us do not think this is ok. Will these people immediately understand why what they said was wrong and have a change of heart? Not unless we woke up in a lifetime movie this morning. But they will realize that what they said is not sanctioned by the majority. Many of them already knew what they said was wrong, since instead of defending it a number of them responded "oh no, I was hacked!!" Over time exposure to other people reinforcing that this is wrong might make some of them change their minds, but for the others it will make them shut up. And the less racist bullshit flying around public spaces the better. First, because it makes the environment safer and more welcoming for everyone and second, because the less there is the less normal it seems, weakening the chances that incoming members (the very young) will see the behavior and adopt it.
As far as calling people's schools, I have no problem with them calling, but the school taking disciplinary action would probably not be appropriate in most cases. There were some students who, as a condition of being on a team or something, had agreed to be a public representative of the school, and in that case they have violated that agreement. Otherwise, if they are in public schools, I think freedom of speech does apply. Calling their schools is, regardless of the disciplinary outcome, an excellent way to drive home the point to these students that if you publicly make statements, people can and will find out who you are and hold you accountable for them. You shouldn't make statements your aren't prepared to stand by. The online environment won't improve as long as people think that they cannot or will not be held accountable for what they do and say.
Carl-E:
Not punishment per se, but public shaming is more than appropriate.
I've been saying all along that this presidential race was about race. Romney was a punch line until every other republican candidate imploded in the primaries. There was so much "I don't really like him, but I'm voting for him anyway" in the GOP that it was clearly an "Anyone But Obama" campaign. There was so much coded racist speech in the ads (well, the local ones that were not paid for by the campaigns) that it was disturbing to see/hear/read.
Diversity training is worth it, even if it only reaches a fraction of these people. Many of these kids won't shake these attitudes in their lifetime, though. Then they'll raise their own children with the same bullshit. Let's hope those children are reached with the message earlier than their fuckwit parents were. Otherwise, the dream ends.
Papersatan:
That's the thing. You can grow up and know your parents are terrible racists, and not become one. It is clearly possible, or how have we gotten here today?
My father told me a story when I was 13 or so, about when he lived in Georgia. The line at the 'white' water fountain was pretty long, and there was no line at the 'colored' one. His father looked at him and his brother and said "Why are you waiting in this line? Go use that one." While other people in the line were horrified, my grandfather's point was that there is no reason the water fountains should be separate anyways, and if you are standing in the long line to not use the 'colored' one, then you are reinforcing that they should be separate. What stuck me the most when I heard that story?
Oh my god... segregation was so recent that my father remembers it!
Of course I had read about segregation in textbooks, and I knew the dates, but it seemed like so long ago... The footage was in black and white, everyone was dressed so old-fashioned... It wasn't until I realized that I was one generation from segregation that it really hit home how much change we have made in such a short time.
My father remembers when black americans fought to attend the same schools at whites, and the first black president. That is a lot of change in one generation, and it is the sort of change that make me hopeful. If that many people could change their minds in one lifetime, then think of where we will be in one more.
But that change will only take place if we are publicly holding people accountable for what they say, and declaring that we disagree.
Is it cold in here?:
Calling attention to them is one end of the spectrum, hate speech laws are another end of the spectrum, and forwarding their racist messages to someone with authority over them is in between.
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