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Tombraider Rebooted

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Blyss:
Hmm.  How best to sum up?

I don't want to in any way discount your opinion on the game. (@masterpiece)  I simply was not as overwhelmed with greatness as you were I guess.  I like the game, and I think they paved the way for a better game (to be read: more to my liking) in a second installment, and I believe that was the point of this game, now that I have finally finished it.

I've never played any of the Uncharted games, and therefore have no basis for comparison.  That said, I don't compare TR to those games at all, only to the older games, and I played almost all of them.  In the interest of complete accuracy, no you were not always in a tomb in the old games, and I don't think I ever said that was the case, but perhaps I insinuated.  However, you were doing more tomb raideresque activities, and that was HOW YOU FORWARDED the story.  I can't emphasize that enough. 

There was combat in the old games as well.  I'm not knocking the game for having combat.  But as you mentioned, the island is a tomb because of all the dead bodies...  including the hundreds that I added to the pile.  That's a lot of people dead, and could just as easily have been some other danger than people with guns.  Again, they chose that route, and I played it, and I don't hate the combat itself.  I just wish there'd been more of a focus on 'LARA HAS TO SURVIVE' and it not having to do with hundreds of guys with guns - maybe mix it up and have crazy animals that are part of the island's indigenous population - I don't know.  But yeah, mowing down bad guys with my bow or my machine gun or my pistol, is something I'd expect in a Rambo game, not Tombraider.

NOW - because I don't completely disagree with you, there were some things that they did so RIGHT that I actually got a shiver down my spine because, FUCK YEAH! that was awesome!  The example that you gave under the spoiler cover is an excellent one.  THAT WAS PERFECT! 

Having finished the game now, I do have a different opinion than I did when I started, because they did lighten up on the combat at one point, and it did become more about exploration again, and that was what I was looking for, so this is more of a whole picture kind of game, and I have no problem with that at all.  At the end, I was glad I'd bought the game, I'm not disappointed, and I look forward to the next one.

To be fair, though, I think I was expecting this one to be what they claim is coming in the next installment.  That's all.

ackblom12:
This is on my list of games to play, and I am quite excited to play it, but from what I gather it suffers heavily from the common video game issue of "character is written one way, you play the character another". This is a problem that many games I love have, and I'm kind of eager for the industry to figure out how to avoid this. Sometimes this just involves hiring proper writers, but as a medium I think it's gonna be kind of tough to get over.

Valdís:

--- Quote from: ackblom12 on 14 Mar 2013, 13:59 ---This is on my list of games to play, and I am quite excited to play it, but from what I gather it suffers heavily from the common video game issue of "character is written one way, you play the character another". This is a problem that many games I love have, and I'm kind of eager for the industry to figure out how to avoid this.
--- End quote ---

This statement reminds me of MrBtongue:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZM2jXyvGOc

ackblom12:
Yeah, that's a good video for the subject. Another big example would be GTA IV I think. Niko is written as a man looking for redemption, tired of the senseless violence of his lifestyle and his place within it, he regularly talks about how he is full of grief for the lives lost and how he will never do it again... and then you're forced to kill several dozen people, both innocents and enemies, so that you can finish the story mission.

Edit: And that, combined with some gameplay things I didn't like afterwards, is why Vice City will always be the best GTA.

Masterpiece:

--- Quote from: ackblom12 on 14 Mar 2013, 14:48 ---Yeah, that's a good video for the subject. Another big example would be GTA IV I think. Niko is written as a man looking for redemption, tired of the senseless violence of his lifestyle and his place within it, he regularly talks about how he is full of grief for the lives lost and how he will never do it again... and then you're forced to kill several dozen people, both innocents and enemies, so that you can finish the story mission.

--- End quote ---
Yet the story ends with Niko obviously failing to achieve his goal of escaping his violent past and considering if he is in fact still sane. I don't really think your example is justified, but I definitely see your point.

About the exploring thing that @blyss mentioned: I don't think it's possible to re-create the exploring aspect present in old Tomb Raiders in newer games because that exploring aspect was very much linked to the fact that Lara Croft simply did not control very well. An example I can think of is this: How did you cross a gap? Walk towards the edge, do one skip backwards, run towards the gap, jump, and grab the opposite ledge. Seeing as this whole process is extremely streamlined to the point of being an afterthought (nowadays you just jump in a general direction, and maybe press the pickaxe button), the whole navigation and exploration has a whole different aspect in this game.

It essentially comes down to level design, and what you want to achieve with it. I can distinguish two "types" of basic level pattern in this game, and a few more that combine those elements. But the two basic ones are the arena type level, where you're basically in a room fighting enemies, and there's the traversal type level, where you're trying to get from A to B. I consider the puzzle areas as arenas where your enemy is the environment. The areas where everything behind you breaks down and blows up is a traversal level with action. Examples for these kind of levels are in the spoiler.
(click to show/hide)Arena level: Himikos throne room in the burning stronghold.
Traversal level: Ascending the Ziggurat tower at the end.In the old Tomb Raiders, this pattern exists as well - however combat and traversal did not have to be so differentiated because the combat mechanics were so much simpler back then (example: TR2s Tibetian Monastery is a huge arena and traversal level, because of the sheer scale of the level and the amount of enemies that appear everywhere). In todays 3rd person shooters, cover is an important part of the combat, there is no auto-aim and enemies are much more sophisticated. Levels have to be designed with combat in mind. The Tomb Raider Legend series (including Anniversary and Underworld) did not do a good job in improving combat, and in my opinion, the auto aim is to blame. I think the new Tomb Raider has to be applauded to the fact that they managed to create sophisticated combat areas that still include a lot of elements for traversal and exploration. The best example for these are the hubs. Sure there's very linear affairs in TR and levels that focus solely on combat. But the hubs are a huge step towards bringing these two play-styles together. And the game does emphasize traversal and exploration, even after combat: You're motivated to search bodies of fallen enemies for salvage and the areas for hidden relics/documents for xp, because if you don't, chances are you're gonna have a hard time in the later parts of the game.

My focus is drifting, so I'll get to the point I'm trying to make: The island of TR is in my humble opinion an environment that invites exploration. There's so many stuff packed everywhere, and it does take quite a while to get all of it. I'm not saying that exploration is the only vital part in the game, combat sure is a huge part of it, but I think these two are meshed together quite beautifully.

And also, do yourself a favour and watch some Uncharted walkthroughs. They are an example of being a completely linear affair.

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