Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2500-2504 (29 July- August 2, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Akima:
--- Quote from: wiserd on 05 Aug 2013, 12:45 ---I'm saying she doesn't express herself in the manner females I've known do.
--- End quote ---
Ah, I see. In that case, it is just you.
You have a model in your head of what women are supposed to be like, and if someone behaves in a way that doesn't fit your model, you question whether they are female, rather than questioning your model. That is not uncommon, but it is not good either.
rschill:
--- Quote from: Akima on 05 Aug 2013, 15:45 ---
--- Quote from: wiserd on 05 Aug 2013, 12:45 ---I'm saying she doesn't express herself in the manner females I've known do.
--- End quote ---
Ah, I see. In that case, it is just you.
You have a model in your head of what women are supposed to be like, and if someone behaves in a way that doesn't fit your model, you question whether they are female, rather than questioning your model. That is not uncommon, but it is not good either.
--- End quote ---
The two biggest lessons I leaned from that trans* discussions here:
Gender and sex are probably complicated than I imagine right now. (even when I take the previous statement into account)
Trans* people have a rougher time than I imagine right now (again, even after I take the previous statement into account)
There are always more variations of Hofstader's Law than you expect.
mtmerrick:
lesson(s) i've learned on the topic from this forum
-its harder than you'd think to treat everyone pretty much exactly the same. do it anyways
-when you're not 112% sure what to say, use generic pronouns
-people take this shit seriously.
Is it cold in here?:
Besides which, I don't know a lot of men who act like Dickmouth Stinkface either.
Mapping AIs into human categories may be a fundamental mistake to start with, but if I had to draw a comparison it would be to a disturbed child.
wiserd:
--- Quote from: Valdís on 05 Aug 2013, 14:56 ---
--- Quote from: wiserd on 05 Aug 2013, 11:57 ---So far, the comic has hewn pretty close to my gender constructs. Thus, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to play "one of these things is not like the other" where the AIs are concerned.
--- End quote ---
The things you're pointing your finger at stem from how you view humans, not how you view AIs. For the record AIs aren't "less than", they're their own characters and warrant the same amount of respect one would give to any human on the cast.
--- End quote ---
[/quote]
Every personality has a psychology. That psychology comes from somewhere. I understand dogs as pack animals with rank and a loose social structure. I understand cats as... well, I don't understand cats. I understand humans in terms of rank, ego, identification, drives, aversions, etc. In short, I understand humans in terms of their goals and their capacity to achieve them which are the manifestation of evolutionary drives for reproduction and possibly kin selection (rejected by many scientists, but I'm still a fan) as well as things like ego defense, learned helplessness, etc. On a more general level, I understand social organization in terms of things like natural rights, compassion, equality before the law etc. I never claimed that the AIs were 'less than' anything. But there's some key portion of their psychological backstory which is still offscreen (and might always be.) I just don't understand the underlying purpose behind the AIs' drives.(no pun intended) They aren't trying to reproduce, yet some exhibit behavior typically associated with a desire to reproduce. They aren't designed with the sole purpose of pleasing humans. They're designed as some kind of agents, but I don't totally grasp the deeper purpose (if there even is one) behind their agency. Was there a huge push for jumping the uncanny valley by adding really odd personality idiosyncrasies? Maybe I'm just expecting too much from a webcomic. But I don't think I'm totally off the deep end.
All psychology starts with projection, taking our own desires and extrapolating them to other agents with some kind of modification or correction. We empathize with a frustrated AI because we've been frustrated and because we have behavioral routines for dealing with other frustrated human beings. If AIs are not human beings, those learned behaviors might be incorrect or inadequate. But if so, that inadequacy hasn't manifested itself yet in the comic. Perhaps I'm looking too deeply into this and I should just take the comic as it rolls lightheartedly along. But I don't see how a person's view of any other agent would NOT be related to their view of themselves. And, by extension, humans in general.
--- Quote ---Also finger-pointing about "adequate femininity" isn't a game.
--- End quote ---
Uhh. Please reread where I already clarified that my statements weren't normative. So the use of 'adequate' isn't really relevant. Or are you implying that the notions of masculinity and feminity themselves should be taboo? May herself seems to clearly believe she's somehow inappropriately gendered.
If we were critiquing a story about the Victorian era and a character wore pants for casual activities, it would be completely in line to note how unusual/anachronistic that was and ask what the author was saying about the character.
--- Quote ---First and foremost "Hermaphrodite" is not an appropriate thing to call an intersex person at all. Nor is it "trans sexuality", as it isn't a sexual orientation. Also it's Gender Dysphoria.
--- End quote ---
Sure. Intersex is more PC. I did mistype re: Gender dysphoria, i.e. the inborn feeling that a person should be a different sex.
--- Quote ---such as doubting if a person can "really be" their gender given certain behaviors.
--- End quote ---
I assume you're not quoting me, here.
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 05 Aug 2013, 13:33 ---The key question is how Dickmouth Stinkface's actions compare with those of other sociopathic female inmates.
An unpleasant idea comes to mind, though. There's a sadistic American official who forces male prisoners to wear pink underwear. What if Dickmouth Stinkface is the victim of a warden like that? What if she's set to male in software but maliciously assigned to a humiliating female avatar?
--- End quote ---
Very fair point on the first, and interesting notion on the second. May seems to believe that Dale's preferences are the reason for at least some portion of her avatar. And she knows what Moe is, indicating some pre-existing familiarity with anime.... Not sure what that means, but if AI were more intelligent then knowledge of a topic might not tend to indicate genuine interest in the topic as it does in humans.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version