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Vault 101 (Fallout Thread)

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Neko_Ali:
I won't argue your preferences, since those are yours and I can understand getting tired of the same groups all the time. But I will present that there have been reasons why the Brotherhood and Super Mutants have been a big part in Bethesda games. The West Coast Brotherhood and Super Mutants have been in decline since the first game yes, because they were unwilling or unable to expand their membership roster.

The West Coast Brotherhood have been heavily bound to the Codex and are very selective in adding new members, rarely doing so.  The Midwest Brotherhood is a bit more open about it, as I understand. I still have never played Fallout Tactics, so I can't speak from personal knowledge on that game. Those that made it to the East Coast though, under Elder Lyons, started to aggressively expand their membership. Many references to it are made in FO3 and 4 about how many of the people you talk to were not born into the Brotherhood, but recruited in.

Given the fact that they send the descendant of the first leader to the East with Lyons, I have to wonder if some people in the West Coast Elders understood that they were dying out and changes needed to be made if the Brotherhood was to survive. But that to many within the ranks would resist the idea of open recruiting.  Whether by chance or design though... It did work. The Brotherhood on the West Coast is slowly dying out, having lost most of their power and fighting force to the NCR. While on the East Coast they are thriving out of the DC area. With enough tech and resources and support to have a fleet of (apparently barely) working vertibirds, an airship, a giant robot and more power armor than they know what to do with, as well as many soldiers and scribes.

Super mutants were being produced in multiple locations around the country, according to lore by Bethesda. In the West they were based out of Mariposa, and once that was destroyed and shut down, there were no more mutants being created. But between the original scientists, the Master and I think some with the Enclave, there were a lot of them made. And they seem largely immune to aging, so there are still a lot of small bands scatter around the West. In the East, there was Vault 87 producing super mutants. It had been pretty much untouched until the Lone Wanderer and the Enclave showed up. Even without the scientists there, the mutants understood enough that if they threw people into the green goo, more mutants were made. So they were able to somewhat haphazardly but regularly grow their population for two centuries, which explains why there are so many in DC. I won't spoil it for FO4.... but there is a reason why there are Super Mutants in the Commonwealth. They are not just carry overs from FO3.

Of course, in the end lore is an excuse to bring in elements that you want to bring into a game. The Brotherhood of Steel, Super Mutants and Ghouls have always been a part of the franchise. It would be more weird for them not to show up in a game at this point.

danuis:

--- Quote from: Neko_Ali on 30 Apr 2016, 08:33 ---I won't argue your preferences, since those are yours and I can understand getting tired of the same groups all the time. But I will present that there have been reasons why the Brotherhood and Super Mutants have been a big part in Bethesda games. The West Coast Brotherhood and Super Mutants have been in decline since the first game yes, because they were unwilling or unable to expand their membership roster.

The West Coast Brotherhood have been heavily bound to the Codex and are very selective in adding new members, rarely doing so.  The Midwest Brotherhood is a bit more open about it, as I understand. I still have never played Fallout Tactics, so I can't speak from personal knowledge on that game. Those that made it to the East Coast though, under Elder Lyons, started to aggressively expand their membership. Many references to it are made in FO3 and 4 about how many of the people you talk to were not born into the Brotherhood, but recruited in.

Given the fact that they send the descendant of the first leader to the East with Lyons, I have to wonder if some people in the West Coast Elders understood that they were dying out and changes needed to be made if the Brotherhood was to survive. But that to many within the ranks would resist the idea of open recruiting.  Whether by chance or design though... It did work. The Brotherhood on the West Coast is slowly dying out, having lost most of their power and fighting force to the NCR. While on the East Coast they are thriving out of the DC area. With enough tech and resources and support to have a fleet of (apparently barely) working vertibirds, an airship, a giant robot and more power armor than they know what to do with, as well as many soldiers and scribes.

Super mutants were being produced in multiple locations around the country, according to lore by Bethesda. In the West they were based out of Mariposa, and once that was destroyed and shut down, there were no more mutants being created. But between the original scientists, the Master and I think some with the Enclave, there were a lot of them made. And they seem largely immune to aging, so there are still a lot of small bands scatter around the West. In the East, there was Vault 87 producing super mutants. It had been pretty much untouched until the Lone Wanderer and the Enclave showed up. Even without the scientists there, the mutants understood enough that if they threw people into the green goo, more mutants were made. So they were able to somewhat haphazardly but regularly grow their population for two centuries, which explains why there are so many in DC. I won't spoil it for FO4.... but there is a reason why there are Super Mutants in the Commonwealth. They are not just carry overs from FO3.

Of course, in the end lore is an excuse to bring in elements that you want to bring into a game. The Brotherhood of Steel, Super Mutants and Ghouls have always been a part of the franchise. It would be more weird for them not to show up in a game at this point.

--- End quote ---

Yes, I know, Virgil and all - but that's the whole point. Would it be that weird? Two was already on the path of forgetting them. The theme of fallout does not need them, they are just the results of that theme: that humanity can survive, and rebuild, and they'll try to rebuild in different ways. That theme could manifest in a lot of different ways.

TheEvilDog:

--- Quote from: danuis on 30 Apr 2016, 19:02 ---Two was already on the path of forgetting them. The theme of fallout does not need them, they are just the results of that theme: that humanity can survive, and rebuild, and they'll try to rebuild in different ways. That theme could manifest in a lot of different ways.

--- End quote ---

Given the nature of the world in Fallout, any large scale organisation such as the Brotherhood of Steel or the Enclave wouldn't necessarily collapse with the loss of one branch. Its probably easier to describe them as cells rather than a single entity. Yes, the Enclave leadership was killed on that Oil rig in 2, but considering that the Enclave was the remnants of the US Government, there would be multiple sites and plans in place before and after the bombs dropped, one needs to only look at the US Continuity of Operations Plan to get an idea of how extensive it is. Likewise with the Brotherhood of Steel, given the number of Army bases and bunkers that exist in the States. All of them would be connected by some sort of network, government and army alike.

Ultimately it is easier to kill an man than an idea. An idea can be a wondrous thing; such as clean water in the DC Wasteland or rights for synths in the Commonwealth. But it can also be a dangerous rallying point; Ceasar's Legion, purifying the DC Wasteland and so many other evils.

But the theme of the Fallout games? Its not about humanity rebuilding. It hasn't, not really. People scavenge, they loot and they patch up what they can and if they can't, they steal from those who can. But there is nothing new, no real growth and development. One can see the true theme of Fallout is about the inherent flaw in humanity where we can't let go of the past and seemingly unable to learn from our mistakes.
Examples:
*The Brotherhood of Steel in the West and Mojave are almost extinct due to unable to appreciate the idea that they don't know everything, because they constantly underestimate wastelanders or anyone not a member of their organisation. Conversely, the Eastern Brotherhood under Lyons flourished because they were more open. Under Maxson, they have become feudal lords, but potentially decimated in several endings. A major reason why the Western Brotherhood Chapters are failing is because they cannot appreciate that for all their hoarding of technology, people don't really need a laser or power armour to beat them. They suffered massive casualties against the NCR, even though the NCR still use police level gear with rifles, but that's all backed up by numbers, artillery and aircraft. At the end of the day, they seem incapable of learning from the past.

*The Enclave cling so desperately to the idea of the US of the past that they cannot see the population of the post-War landscape as anything less than human, despite say Ghouls actually being people who actually lived in the US. They are so intent on "rebuilding" the old world that they are prepared to commit genocide. Yet, some might see their actions as the same that led to the destruction of the Old World.

*Ulysses throughout New Vegas, like the Enclave, cannot let go of the concept of the Old World. Ulysses cannot let go of the past, from his coat and signature weapon, to the rage he felt at the White Legs copying his old tribe's use of dreadlocks. Consider the question that he asked the Think Tank - "Who are you, that you do not know your own history?" and the chaos that caused. If you choose the right options when you confront him, you basically throw the question back at him by forcing him to realise that his actions caused the crises of Honest Hearts, Old World Blues, Dead Money as well as the main story, all because he wants to bring the old world back.

Ultimately, Fallout believes that people can't let go, be it the past or an idea and more often than not, the protagonists of Fallout are not so much the ones who are best at surviving, but rather the ones who make the sacrifice to look to the future.

Rose of Sharon Cassidy's last words in the House ending probably best sums it up: "We were going full speed ahead...but facing backwards the whole time."

At least that's what I think...

LeeC:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgw3NgYTR6U

TheEvilDog:
So apparently Bethesda have announced the June-August dlc for Fallout 4 (I forgot E3 was on):
June - Contraptions. Another workshop dlc where you can make armour mannequins and weapon racks, elevators and some Rube-Goldberg-esque contraptions for your settlements.
July - Vault-Tec. Yet another workshop, only this time you can make your own vault for people to live in and in classic Vault-Tec tradition, perform experiments on them. I'm guessing its like the Sims but with more shooting.
August - Nuka World. This will be the last dlc for Fallout 4, not much info about it but its probably going to be a large story dlc. From the look of it, Nuka World is a large former theme park dedicated to Nuka Cola, which looks like its borrowed a lot of the aesthetic of Bartertown from Beyond Thunderdome.

(Oh, and Skyrim is getting a remaster in October but that's a discussion for another topic)

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