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What seemed weird when I visited your country

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Neko_Ali:
To many Erics....

pwhodges:

--- Quote from: LTK on 05 Jun 2014, 07:39 ---Well, that just means you started earlier. We won't know who's the winner until one of you finishes the human race.
--- End quote ---

This could get uncomfortable.  How do you define "the end"?  Is the "winner" the one who gets to the end first, or the one who keeps going...?

Mlle Germain:

--- Quote from: Akima on 05 Jun 2014, 07:12 ---Being born in China, I was not given a Western name at birth. I was named in the traditional way, inheriting my family surname from my father, and having my personal name selected by my grandparents. When we moved to Australia, my family obviously had to adopt Western name order, romanized spelling for our names, and English-language "first names". In my case, the two syllables of my Chinese personal name each sound like a common English girl's name, so the school where I was first enrolled wrote them down separately as my first and middle names using English spelling, and that is how I got my Australian name. I'm OK with it, and I made it "official" when I became an Australian citizen.

--- End quote ---
I actually find it slightly strange that most people from East Asia seem to take on a standard western/English name for western/English people to use instead of their actual one. It makes sense to find a way to spell your actual name in Latin characters, but why not try to adapt it as closely to the actual pronounciation as possible and then use that? To me at least, being called by a completely different name would always feel like it's not really me. Of course, Chinese names are sometimes hard for Westerners to pronounce, but people can at least try. Changing your name completely to a standard western name feels to me like giving up part of your cultural identity, just to accomodate lazy Westeners who can't be bothered to learn Chinese names - I realise that this is not necessarily how people who are in that situation actually feel about it, though! I might be getting it completely wrong.
I'd be happy to have you comment on that, Akima, if you like!

As far as I am aware, taking on a western name is not that common in Germany. Three of my boyfriend's friends have parents who migrated from China to Germany; two of them were born in Germany and they all have Chinese personal names that they use in their daily life (adapted to the western order of putting the personal name first). A friend of another friend who is Chinese and came to Germany to go to university is using her Chinese name, too. Another family of Chinese origin that I know with three children gave the older one a Chinese name and German names to the younger two (of course I don't know whether they also have a Chinese middle name or not).
However, here in the UK, everyone from South-East Asia that I've met is using an English first name. I talked about this to a girl from Taiwan who came to the UK for her PhD in my volleyball team; she said that she was given the name by her first English teacher like all other students in her class and she uses that for everyone in the UK beause it's easier and she doesn't mind, because normally, only her family and close friends would use her personal name to address her anyways.

(I have to say that I'm very lucky that in the UK everyone uses first names, because my first name also exists in English with a slightly adapted pronounciation, but my last name is very hard to say and to understand for English-speakers. Whenever I need to give it somewhere, I have to spell it letter by letter - it has 15 letters - or show them my ID.)

Ben:
Regarding usage of personal names, I found out many years ago that the Liberal-left, politically-correct, Guardian-reading, twinkly-eyed multi-cultural nirvana is an entirely Western delusion. One of the perennial drivers behind my travels is the widespread practice of employing and promoting local nationals, and the resulting balance between the local workforce and the expats employed to maintain necessary functions.

I've done a good deal of work in a Muslim countries, but I have no-one I'd regard as a personal friend as a result. The reason is simple and obvious; as a beer-drinking, bacon-eating Englishman who regards secular law as paramount over religious law and sees no reason why my wife and daughter can't go where they like and marry whom they please, my frame of reference is completely incompatible with theirs. That's just how it is and they see no reason why not, either.

This doesn't worry me and it doesn't appear to worry them, either.

Akima:

--- Quote from: Mlle Germain on 05 Jun 2014, 07:56 ---Of course, Chinese names are sometimes hard for Westerners to pronounce, but people can at least try. Changing your name completely to a standard western name feels to me like giving up part of your cultural identity, just to accomodate lazy Westeners who can't be bothered to learn Chinese names - I realise that this is not necessarily how people who are in that situation actually feel about it, though!
--- End quote ---
Well... Of course taking on a Western name does feel like giving up part of your cultural identity, but when you emigrate to another country with an (initially) very alien culture, that is a standard part of the package. In order just to function effectively in society, or to aspire (however futilely, see the posting before this) to being seen as a fully equal citizen in it, you have to put on your "host-country suit" before you walk out of the front door. Obviously, the longer you've been wearing the suit, and the younger you were when you first put it on, the better the suit fits, but it never entirely stops chafing I think, not least because nobody will ever let you forget you are wearing it. Do I mind that? Yes I do, but it has to be set against the great advantages my family has gained by emigrating. As we say: Eat bitter; taste sweet!

I don't accuse Westerners who can't or won't pronounce Chinese names correctly of laziness necessarily, and expecting correct pronunciation is very unrealistic. Considering that even newscasters on national television habitually mispronounce the name of China's capital city (it is Bay-jing, not Beige-ing), where is the average person going to learn? The "official" Pinyin romanization system does not help matters. Would you immediately recognise that ZH is pronounced like the hard J at the beginning of jungle, or that Q is pronounced like the CH at the beginning of chintz while CH represents the sound at the beginning of chop, or that C is pronounced TS like the sound in the middle of besT-Seller? All of this requires study, which the average person will probably not have done. The out-of-fashion Yale romanization system works much better for English-speakers (it was designed for the U.S.Army), but would mislead Germans, for example, because the habitual way they pronounce the letter J is different. The interface between Chinese and European languages is simply a very difficult problem even for Standard Mandarin, never mind the regional dialects.

As for the "Liberal-left, politically-correct, Guardian-reading, twinkly-eyed multi-cultural nirvana"; the notion that it could exist might be a liberal delusion, but the belief that the only alternative is blank rejection is a fairly extreme conservative one. I do not myself find that my religious, cultural, or dietary practices preclude friendship with people who do not share them.

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