Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2593-2597 (09-13 December 2013) Weekly Comics Discussion Thread
Dr. ROFLPWN:
--- Quote from: Indicible on 12 Dec 2013, 02:12 ---
--- Quote ---Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?
--- End quote ---
Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).
--- End quote ---
Except she really isn't. The favors aren't on the same plane, but Momo's existence isn't tied to her chassis--Momo exists independently thereof. Marigold is clumsily and insincerely implying that Momo owes her her current physical interaction platform. Which is actually quite true, but the fact that Marigold is trying to use it as emotional blackmail is fucked up and hurtful--it's on the level of buying a friend a house and then pressuring them to do things for you because you bought them this nice house--but it isn't the same as claiming her as property.
--- Quote from: Loki on 12 Dec 2013, 02:25 ---She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.
--- End quote ---
Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.
This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"
This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.
It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.
blacksinow:
I wouldn't excuse this kind of behavior from anyone in a real life situation, and I won't excuse it now. Whether or not Marigold has low social skills is very pointless, by excusing it we enable Marigold to do it again and again and more frequently. There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them." You don't coddle someone and say "There there, it's okay, you can be a dick all you want."
bhtooefr:
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2013, 02:55 ---This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"
This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.
--- End quote ---
I'm actually not sure how all that would work.
There's a possibility that Momo's agreement to help pay Marigold back could be brought into court. It'd be weak, but she could be found partially liable for the costs of her chassis.
Dr. ROFLPWN:
--- Quote from: blacksinow on 12 Dec 2013, 03:13 ---I wouldn't excuse this kind of behavior from anyone in a real life situation, and I won't excuse it now. Whether or not Marigold has low social skills is very pointless, by excusing it we enable Marigold to do it again and again and more frequently. There comes a point in time when someone needs to do the proverbial smacking of the back of Marigold's head and say "You're being a dick, cut that shit out or you won't have any friends left when you need them." You don't coddle someone and say "There there, it's okay, you can be a dick all you want."
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: blacksinow on 11 Dec 2013, 22:15 ---There comes a point in time when things like this become unacceptable no matter the reason. Marigold has just entered that territory and has proven once again why I despise her with all my being. One day, Marigold's immature tantrums are going to cross that line that will inevitably force Momo to quit socializing with her. This sort of behavior is disgusting to a point that if Momo were human, it would be considered unacceptable and slavery at that.
--- End quote ---
1.) Moral stances work a lot better when you don't previously indicate you have a character assassination agenda. Just saying.
2.) I won't ask you to condone her behavior, but the slavery thing is pure hyperbole.
--- Quote from: bhtooefr on 12 Dec 2013, 03:22 ---I'm actually not sure how all that would work.
There's a possibility that Momo's agreement to help pay Marigold back could be brought into court. It'd be weak, but she could be found partially liable for the costs of her chassis.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but Marigold said it was a gift in the presence of the chassis sales rep, who could be relied upon as a witness for the defense. Also, Northampton seems to be pretty pro-AI politically--hell, the whole world does. The one time we hear about AI oppression in any form is a fundie talks bad about them one time. Once. It's never brought up again, and Momo certainly doesn't have to live in fear like Claire does to a degree because transphobia is real and can't be escaped from.
dps:
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 12 Dec 2013, 02:55 ---
--- Quote from: Indicible on 12 Dec 2013, 02:12 ---
--- Quote ---Do people here think Wil is a blackmailer, a movie villain and regards Sven as his slave?
--- End quote ---
Except the recalled favours are not quite on the same plane. It would seem Wil got Sven out of some woman-related shenanigans, while Marigold is telling Momo she owes her her own existence. Quid pro quo. Although I agree in both cases it is quite immature (albeit understandable).
--- End quote ---
Except she really isn't. The favors aren't on the same plane, but Momo's existence isn't tied to her chassis--Momo exists independently thereof. Marigold is clumsily and insincerely implying that Momo owes her her current physical interaction platform. Which is actually quite true, but the fact that Marigold is trying to use it as emotional blackmail is fucked up and hurtful--it's on the level of buying a friend a house and then pressuring them to do things for you because you bought them this nice house--but it isn't the same as claiming her as property.
--- End quote ---
IIRC, Momo got a job in order to pay Marigold back for the new chassis. So yeah, she owes her, but in the same sense my mom owes the bank for her new car--financially. Doesn't mean the bank president can call up my mom and pressure her to sort out his love life for her.
--- Quote from: Loki on 12 Dec 2013, 02:25 ---She works for her dad. It's a real job. She pays taxes and everything.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Oh dear, I had a feeling. :psyduck: So her financial security and capability to have a roof over her head are dependent on the whims of a capricious, violent-tempered old windbag.
--- End quote ---
Uhm, I don't remember us meeting Marigold's father. What strip was that?
--- Quote ---This means if her dad decided to cut ties, Marigold could quite feasibly be out on the street, and before one pities Momo one should remember in the society Jeph has constructed, Momo can break contract, walk away, and AFAIK leave the parting gift of "hey be sure to keep up on payments for my chassis or I'll send you to collections~"
--- End quote ---
If her father cut ties, Marigold could presumably get another job. Though of course, it's not guaranteed that she would find one, but how is that different from the situation of anyone else who works for a living? Dora could fire Faye or any of her other employees at any time, Marten could get fired from the library, etc.
--- Quote ---This is what I mean by the robots being freer than the humans. Even, in that situation, if Momo didn't keep Marigold on the financial leash of her chassis or it's all paid off, all Momo has to do to escape a bad situation is return to the network, become information-with-rights again. Marigold wouldn't have that ability, because she's human and no one gives a fuck.
It makes it very very hard for me to marshal sympathy for Momo even if her "existence" was supposedly just disrespected. It's like telling me I've hurt the feelings of a Greek god; they have Olympus to return to, they deal with the real world sheerly by choice.
--- End quote ---
Would you want a friend to treat you the way Marigold just treated Momo? Your existance presumably isn't dependent on your continued friendship; you deal with your friends by choice, and could walk away at any time. That's not to say that you can't forgive a friend for being a dick (if you want any friends, you better forgive theem, 'cause we're all dicks at some time), but it doesn't make it OK for them to be dickish towards you.
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