Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2776-2780 (25-29 August 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
plusorminus:
--- Quote from: Jazzmaster on 24 Aug 2014, 20:42 ---
I have siblings of my own and sometimes they do stupid things. When they do stupid things I don't act out about it, I don't get incredibly angry, and I certainly don't make any declarations involving the removal of "toxic people" from my life, when they do kinda-shitty things out of nowhere, to other people. Of course it works both ways; I've never had a sibling get totally angry with me and threaten to cut me out of their life because I did something dumb.
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My dad cheated on my mother continuously throughout their marriage. Because of her religious beliefs, she turned a blind eye. When I turned 18, I'd had it. I cut him off and told his parents, my grandparents, I was done with him. I told my mother that she was a grown woman and could do what she pleased, but I was done watching my father act like an asshole. I've not talked to or seen him in 5 years. My mother just left him this year.
By your analysis, I was making it "all about me" because hey, my father didn't do anything to me, so what was my beef? I don't accept that, sorry. Sven is Dora's brother. It's a small town. She has to deal with him. It's likely that because they are both out of the house, when Dora comes over, they extend the invite to Sven, as well. She doesn't want to deal with him. He's proven himself to be a selfish asshole.
Also, this could very well affect Dora's business. Faye is her assistant manager. She was already losing focus because of worrying about the Angus stuff. If Sven presses the issue, it could cause a complete meltdown with Faye, which could adversely affect CoD. So to say that this doesn't affect her because Sven didn't do anything to her doesn't wash with me.
--- Quote --- What does Dora have to be so damn insecure about in the first place, when she's already running a solid business of her own and has a steady, loving girlfriend? Has something else been going on that's yet to be revealed in the comic, perhaps? Perhaps the business not doing so well, or her relationship with Tai is rocky, at least something sensible that's not "my brother is kind of an idiot and I feel the need to make everything he does into something that affects me personally somehow"?
I don't hate Dora, but I cannot, for the life of me, wrap my head around why she's acting this way. I can't.
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Maybe this is the disconnect. I don't read "insecure" in this. Dora knows how hurt Faye was by Sven's selfishness in the past. It's very likely that if Faye had not been in therapy at that time, she might have pulled up stakes and left town after that. She is hearing that Sven is disrespecting and disregarding Faye's relationship, which has the possibility of becoming very turbulent if Angus gets the gig, for his own selfish reasons. Can't she be acting this way because she gave Sven the benefit of the doubt with Faye after he fucked the blonde country singer and now he's proven that he hasn't learned a damn thing?
--- Quote from: creatureshock on 24 Aug 2014, 20:52 ---
The only reason I have an issue with Dora is because she sticks herself into situations she has no business in. And this is one of them. She needs to let Sven and Faye be. She is going to cause a shitstorm that will hit Faye, Angus, Marten, and probably Steve and Cosette will probably get a bit of splatter as well. Faye is going to be pissed at both Sven and Dora. Sven is probably going to do something stupid. And Marten will end up dealing with all of it plus Dora's shit because Tai will be asking him for advice on how to keep her calm.
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I still maintain that this is her business because Faye is an integral part of the growth of CoD. Would Dora be able to run it without her? Not effectively. She's already on edge because she has no idea what will happen if Angus gets the job and what this will mean for their relationship. The Sven stuff has the very real possibility of throwing Faye into a tailspin. We all saw Faye tuning Angus out when he was talking strategy for his callback. This could go very bad, very quickly. Faye really liked Sven. It would not surprise me if she had been beginning to fall in love with him. This whole screwed-up romcom junk might stir up a lot of dormant feelings that could make Faye unstable and not only would that be a tragedy for Dora personally to see a friend being shoved into an emotional meltdown due to her brother, but it could have disastrous effects on the business. Suppose because of this Sven shit Faye starts being an ass to Penny? Or Cosette? Or Hannelore, god forbid, or Dale, and one or all of them quits?
And, sorry, but these are adults. Faye is very good about not dealing with any shit she doesn't want to deal with. Marten needs to grow a pair, though I will concede that I don't know why Dora's telling him this, unless she subconsciously wants him to talk her out of it.
So, yes, I can admit that she probably should have kept this to herself, but I'm not onboard with the "this doesn't concern Dora" argument.
Smallest:
--- Quote from: Jazzmaster on 24 Aug 2014, 20:19 ---
--- Quote from: Nyithra on 24 Aug 2014, 20:15 ---Is her anger really justified anyway? Yeah Sven did wrong her friend, but I'm pretty sure Faye can handle that on her own. He didn't do anything to her directly.
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My thoughts exactly. Dora's just being dramatic and making it all about her, which is extremely annoying.
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Yeah. Cutting toxic people out of your life is good, but what did he do other than have bad judgement with Faye (which Faye can deal with herself, and he just said a stupid thing, it's not something I'd call 'toxic' even to Faye)? I mean, he had an easier life than her, sure, and banged her friends, but those aren't really 'TIME TO DENOUNCE YOU AND CUT YOU OUT' properties. If she doesn't like being around him she doesn't have to, but cutting someone out of your life generally means more than not spending time with.
creatureshock:
--- Quote from: plusorminus on 24 Aug 2014, 21:08 ---I still maintain that this is her business because Faye is an integral part of the growth of CoD. Would Dora be able to run it without her? Not effectively. She's already on edge because she has no idea what will happen if Angus gets the job and what this will mean for their relationship. The Sven stuff has the very real possibility of throwing Faye into a tailspin. We all saw Faye tuning Angus out when he was talking strategy for his callback. This could go very bad, very quickly. Faye really liked Sven. It would not surprise me if she had been beginning to fall in love with him. This whole screwed-up romcom junk might stir up a lot of dormant feelings that could make Faye unstable and not only would that be a tragedy for Dora personally to see a friend being shoved into an emotional meltdown due to her brother, but it could have disastrous effects on the business. Suppose because of this Sven shit Faye starts being an ass to Penny? Or Cosette? Or Hannelore, god forbid, or Dale, and one or all of them quits?
--- End quote ---
Then she is doing a piss poor job of running a company if one employee leaving or starting shit with others, which she does on a near constant basis, will ruin her business. Sara left, Raven left, the business went out without them. Hell, it took Hannelore going over the books and showing Dora she was making money to get Dora to calm down about the business. At this point, if anyone but Hannelore is doing the books for CoD, then the business is fucked.
I think you are reading it wrong that Faye is just now falling for Angus, I think that happened a long time ago. If Faye liking Sven at one point, which she clearly does not now and she only treated him as a fuck buddy then, screws up her relationship with Angus then that is on them. Angus is a stronger guy then I think Marten ever was. He put up with Faye's shit for the longest time and still kept coming back. He has a chance now to do something he has dreamed of, and I think Faye needs to put on her big girl panties and be happy for him and do what she needs to to see this relationship further if that is what she wants.
--- Quote from: plusorminus on 24 Aug 2014, 21:08 ---And, sorry, but these are adults. Faye is very good about not dealing with any shit she doesn't want to deal with. Marten needs to grow a pair, though I will concede that I don't know why Dora's telling him this, unless she subconsciously wants him to talk her out of it.
So, yes, I can admit that she probably should have kept this to herself, but I'm not onboard with the "this doesn't concern Dora" argument.
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Yeah, they are adults and this is some jr high school bullshit. You don't go around announcing to the world why you are doing something, you just fucking do it. If you don't want to be treated like a 14 year old, you don't act like one. Adults do not need to justify their actions, they just do it and deal with the consequences. Dora is trying to justify what she is doing. I'm honestly half surprised either Marten or Faye are friends with Dora after all the shit she pulled on them. At least with Faye she was/is/will-always-be fucked up but she admitted it and did something about it. Dora had to be pushed into it and I still don't think she admits she needs to be an adult and accept her ownership of her problems. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sven is a fuck up but he has never, ever purposefully hurt her. Did her "friends" in school hurt her because they wanted Sven? Yes, but that's not on Sven. That's on her "friends". Not Sven's. Not Dora's. Not Marteen's. Not Faye's.
creatureshock:
--- Quote from: Smallest on 24 Aug 2014, 21:19 ---Yeah. Cutting toxic people out of your life is good, but what did he do other than have bad judgement with Faye (which Faye can deal with herself, and he just said a stupid thing, it's not something I'd call 'toxic' even to Faye)? I mean, he had an easier life than her, sure, and banged her friends, but those aren't really 'TIME TO DENOUNCE YOU AND CUT YOU OUT' properties. If she doesn't like being around him she doesn't have to, but cutting someone out of your life generally means more than not spending time with.
--- End quote ---
Shit, they don't spend time together as is. When was the last time they were shown hanging out together? I think that is a failing of both of them and I think they'd get over a lot of their bullshit if they actually just hung out and talked shit over.
Jazzmaster:
--- Quote from: plusorminus on 24 Aug 2014, 21:08 ---My dad cheated on my mother continuously throughout their marriage. Because of her religious beliefs, she turned a blind eye. When I turned 18, I'd had it. I cut him off and told his parents, my grandparents, I was done with him. I told my mother that she was a grown woman and could do what she pleased, but I was done watching my father act like an asshole. I've not talked to or seen him in 5 years. My mother just left him this year.
By your analysis, I was making it "all about me" because hey, my father didn't do anything to me, so what was my beef? I don't accept that, sorry. Sven is Dora's brother. It's a small town. She has to deal with him. It's likely that because they are both out of the house, when Dora comes over, they extend the invite to Sven, as well. She doesn't want to deal with him. He's proven himself to be a selfish asshole.
--- End quote ---
I naively went through most of my life believing that my parents divorced because my dad was the asshole and my mom was just a victim of it. Only recently did I start to figure out that ultimately they divorced because they both did some shit wrong and weren't really compatible with each other, and I felt that siding with one over the other or cutting either of them out of my life was pretty pointless. Bad behavior is never excusable, but for me it's really about realizing that sometimes, one person acts shitty to another person who doesn't really deserve it, but most of the time (from what I've seen), two people can act terrible to each other because the person they're with is not really who they're supposed to be with - I speak from experience. And I'm NOT trying to tell you to feel or not to feel a certain way about your father, I'm just letting you know where I come from personally.
--- Quote ---Also, this could very well affect Dora's business. Faye is her assistant manager. She was already losing focus because of worrying about the Angus stuff. If Sven presses the issue, it could cause a complete meltdown with Faye, which could adversely affect CoD. So to say that this doesn't affect her because Sven didn't do anything to her doesn't wash with me.
--- End quote ---
Here's the thing though: you're talking about things that COULD happen, not things that have actually happened. Maybe if what you just said went down, I could see Dora being pissed off. But none of it happened, and Faye already disclosed to Marten that although she was annoyed by Sven's behavior, she's resolved to let him "stew in his own juices". I interpret that as meaning that Sven's behavior isn't going to affect Faye's performance at CoD in any significant way.
On the other hand, right now Dora's just being very strange and introducing even more drama. What she's currently doing isn't actually improving the situation for herself or anybody else. Even Marten seemed a little concerned and confused with how she's acting, which is to be expected because he has no idea what she's really talking about. Maybe if she elaborates on it at some point it'll make more sense to people in the comic as well as us readers.
--- Quote ---Maybe this is the disconnect. I don't read "insecure" in this. Dora knows how hurt Faye was by Sven's selfishness in the past. It's very likely that if Faye had not been in therapy at that time, she might have pulled up stakes and left town after that. She is hearing that Sven is disrespecting and disregarding Faye's relationship, which has the possibility of becoming very turbulent if Angus gets the gig, for his own selfish reasons. Can't she be acting this way because she gave Sven the benefit of the doubt with Faye after he fucked the blonde country singer and now he's proven that he hasn't learned a damn thing?
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Other forumers suggested her behavior is a product of her past with Sven, and it felt like they were suggesting it has to do with her feeling jealous and angry at him for being able to reap so much reward from seemingly so little work. That's where the 'insecure' bit came from, but maybe it's the wrong word.
--- Quote ---Can't she be acting this way because she gave Sven the benefit of the doubt with Faye after he fucked the blonde country singer and now he's proven that he hasn't learned a damn thing?
--- End quote ---
She can do whatever she wants. But my two cents is that Sven is Sven and it isn't his job to "prove himself" to anybody. Likewise, Dora is free to choose to not associate with him if she truly finds his behavior so appalling, but I hope she realizes it might've been a mistake to expect him to change somehow, as expecting anyone to change is not really something any of us can do.
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