Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2791-2795 (15-19 September 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
aphanisis81:
--- Quote from: Barmymoo on 20 Sep 2014, 09:58 ---My point is that this is a dangerous topic of conversation. Anyway, the no-shipping rule applies here.
--- End quote ---
Aside from bringing up Obamacare around my Tea Party uncle, I'd like to think "dangerous topic of conversation" is something of an oxymoron.
Barmymoo:
It is dangerous because there are a lot of underinformed people and a handful of bigots and I don't want them to come out of the woodwork and start pissing people off. There are members of this forum for whom this isn't an interesting theoretical topic of conversation but a lived reality and as with anyone's lived reality it is important not to trample all over their feelings. I'm not shutting down the conversation (yet) but I am just issuing a warning. Be careful. Be respectful. Remember that you might be discussing a fictional character but you're discussing an attribute that real people share.
Rghfrgl:
I don't think the comic would really go there beyond the initial question of whether he's interested or not. If the answer to that is 'yes' then he might need to do some soul searching(and maybe jump some unrelated hurdles, like the intern thing) before dating her. But if they become a couple I don't think it'd be used as a point of drama and any sexytime issues would be privately worked out off panel.
aphanisis81:
--- Quote from: KOK on 20 Sep 2014, 10:05 ---
--- Quote from: aphanisis81 on 20 Sep 2014, 08:27 ---OK, elephant in the room:
Of all the reasons Marten might be into or not into dating Claire, I think we have to also consider the really obvious one: The trans issue. Marten's a cool, completely accepting guy, obviously, but being Claire's confidant about her transition and being in a romantic/sexual relationship with her could be two very different things. I don't care how open-minded and LGBTQ-friendly you are, or how accepting of the idea that Claire is, in fact, a woman, and that biology is not gender, etc., etc...for a lot of dudes, it would still be a big deal and something to come to terms with. I know that I wouldn't be able to date or sleep with a trans woman with the exact same mindset I'd have while dating and sleeping with a cis-woman. It's not a matter of prejudice or non-acceptance; there just wouldn't be any way to not think about that aspect of her and have it influence how I see her.
For these reasons, I hope Marten DOES embark on a relationship with Claire, not because I necessarily think they'd be an awesome couple, but because it would be fascinating to see these issues - which again, I think would be at least in the back of any straight dude's mind - being worked out.
--- End quote ---
I think that the very reasons you give point very strongly to this not happening. It would change the comic utterly. This has so far not been a comic about being trans, or gay, or an indie music fan, or traumatized by a parent's suicide or what have you. There are chararacters who are all these things, but none of these issues is the focus of the story. They are each brought up occasionally. Claire is not Clare Augustus, trans woman. She is Claire Augustus, library science student, intern, punster, sister, friend, who is also trans. Her getting into a relationship would change all that. Especially if the relationship is with the central character of the comic.
Of course Jeph might want a change. But until now he has been very firm about not going that way.
--- End quote ---
I don't think that Claire getting into a relationship per se would fundamentally change the comic any more than Dora and Tai getting together or Dale and Marigold getting together has changed it. If it WAS with the main character, that would be different since we are, as readers, almost always privy to Marten's private life and inner thoughts and conflicts. But let me add that I am not predicting this, nor even shipping in the traditional sense. Jeph has teased the idea for over a year now, and the comic finally just made it explicit, so it doesn't strike me as beyond the pale to respond to what Faye said. That said, considering how MUCH he's teased it, I agree, it probably won't happen.
And I agree, Jeph has done an astonishingly admirable job of making Claire all of the things you mentioned and not merely a token character. But at the same time, all of the plot developments and character fixations you mention might not be major THEMES of the comic - i.e. What the Comic is About - but they are things that happened and things that affect the characters, and they surely have been catalysts for the things that ARE the major themes and ideas and arguments of the comic. Sure, it would be hideously inaccurate to summarize Faye as The One Whose Dad Killed Himself or Dora as The Bisexual Goth. But the far richer character development we've seen can be traced back to those descriptions.
And so, while Claire is much more than Claire Augustus, trans woman, she IS a trans woman - if it was truly unimportant to the comic's diegetic universe, why ever even reveal it? - and at least three fairly major story developments (coming out to Marten, coming out to Emily, Clinton's brotherly concern for her safety) have turned on this. I mean it as nothing but high praise for Jeph when I speculate that eventually her trans status might open up an interesting development viz. the possible limits of sexual open-mindedness of a guy who, up to this point, has shown himself to be nothing but open-minded, inclusive, and non-judgmental.
Is it cold in here?:
In Marten's favor he seems to have been flawless at treating Claire as belonging to her actual gender.
A while ago I talked to our local trans people about whether there was a good way to discuss whether Marten would have to be open-minded. Phrased that way, their opinion as I understood is was that the discussion would be neither abusive nor tolerable. It would hurt despite all participants acting in good faith.
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