Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
Is it cold in here?:
Administrator Comment Thy wish is granted. I'll probably change it back in a few days.
Truec:
--- Quote from: Omega Entity on 30 Jan 2015, 17:25 ---
--- Quote from: Truec on 30 Jan 2015, 17:18 ---
--- Quote from: TRVA123 on 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 ---You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.
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Can and will, but only to the extent that Faye remains responsible for her own actions, and I only hold Dora responsible for hers. Dora did the right thing at the time by firing Faye, her employee who she just caught drinking on the job. The right thing to do later would have been to stop by and see Faye, her friend who's been having some tough shit happen to her exacerbating her drinking problem. It was perfectly okay, necessary, and rational to fire Faye and tell her to get help. My problem with Dora is that her friend told her she wanted to be drunk all the time, then she acted on that, and Dora just piled more shit on her (shit she had coming, don't get me wrong) without lending any emotional support. What the hell did she think was going to happen?
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I still disagree that Dora visiting Faye would be a good thing. If Dora's feeling terrible (which she quite obviously is), then I imagine it's about doubly so for Faye - she knows she dun fucked up, and seeing Dora will only serve to put just how much she has, front and center. The best course, therefore, is to give Faye some time and space for the situation to cool down a bit, rather than to slap her in the face with a reminder of just -how much- she's screwed things up.
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Oh I 100% agree, Dora visiting Faye now would be a bad idea. I meant sometime after firing her but before Faye drank herself into the hospital, or even the day before. I've been bringing this up a lot lately it feels like, but Faye told Dora outright that she wanted to be drunk all the time. She did it in the context of explaining why she wanted to drink at work. Dora was then somehow surprised the next day to find her drinking at work. At some point in between she really should have tried talking to her friend.
Omega Entity:
To which my reply was that with Faye's general joking demeanor and her talent at concealing her true feelings behind a mask of bravado and sarcasm, it'd be hard for anyone to really take her seriously. People aren't mindreaders - if you give the illusion that something's not bothering you too much, people are going to think it's all part of the act, proverbially and literally, in this case.
tywren:
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 30 Jan 2015, 16:46 ---If the characters conducted themselves with perfect foresight and free of hangups, it would be a much duller strip.
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Ok, good point. To build on it, the comic would also be far less realistic, as people in real life do screw up.
I'm just one of those people that when i see someone making the same mistakes over, and over, or making new mistakes for the same root reason; i want to slap them across the back of the head, and yell "The hell's wrong with you?!?". I want to do the exact same thing when i see Faye imploding yet another of her relationships; but sense i can't do that to a character form a webcomic, i've come to the forum to rant, and toss out my .02$ instead.
--- Quote from: TRVA123 on 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 ---
--- Quote from: tywren on 30 Jan 2015, 16:01 --- I mean come on, the guy [Marten] had been told just that day that the woman he'd wanted to be with for months, can't be with him because she's a mental train wreck, and that very night, she's [Dora]sleeping with him. No chance for him to process, and get his own head straight over the issue; and no though about how these two are both her friends, and how she'd be changing that dynamic. Hell, i honestly wonder if she'd waited a few weeks if her and marten would have had their breakup at all.
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Maybe you should reread that part of the comic. Dora does NOT approach Marten the day of "the talk", she does so the night of the day after. (560) She and Marten do NOT have sex the night she asks him out. They don't have sex until a while in to the relationship.(604) Dora expresses concern about how they should handle their relationship to make things best for Faye. (565)
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fair enough. I've never been much for going back and re-reading, but if i'm getting my facts wrong, then it's time for me to do that.
--- Quote from: TRVA123 on 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 ---
--- Quote from: tywren on 30 Jan 2015, 16:01 ---Yes she is, and she used it when she broke up with Martin, yet here she is, making new mistakes for the same tired reasons.
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How is Dora firing Faye for drinking on the job AT ALL similar to her breaking up with Marten over Dora's relationship insecurities?
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As you now have me questioning my memory, i'm going to hold off answering this one until i've done a reread. After that i'll either answer, or recant the statement.
--- Quote from: TRVA123 on 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 ---
--- Quote from: tywren on 30 Jan 2015, 16:01 ---If she'd had any tact she'd have said "Get help, or i have no choice but to fire you", leaving the ball in Faye's court. If she had any tact, she'd have sucked it up, put her big girl pants on, and told Faye herself; instead of dumping the responsibility in the lap of a mutual friend. If she'd had any forethought she'd have realized that telling a drunk, especially a belligerent one like Faye "you're fired, get help" isn't going to cause them to get help; it's going to cause them to drink themselves into a coma; and that the better choice is to tell them to get in the car, don't tell them where you're going or why, and drive them to the nearest rehab clinic.
Like i said, lack of tact, and forethought. It was her problem (well one of them anyway) then, and it's her problem now.
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Because it is clearly better to ignore your friends agency or ability to make their own medical decisions; just force them to go to rehab.
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I have no problem at all of ignoring the agency, and free will of a drunk friend if i feel it's needed. If they're drunk, and say "i'm ok to drive.", it bothers me not at all to take their keys, and tell them to sleep on the couch, call a ride, or walk home; likewise if they've been getting tanked every day for a week, dropping them off at a clinic so they can dry out is something i'd do without batting an eye.
--- Quote from: TRVA123 on 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 ---I bet if Dora had "forced Faye into the car, not told her where they were going, and driven her to rehab" all of the Dora haters would be going "Dora is such a control freak! How dare she exert that control outside of the employer/employee context! Blah blee bloo" NOTHING DORA DOES WILL EVER SATISFY YOU.
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Actually, if she'd done that it would have gone a long way to changing my view of the character.
--- Quote from: TRVA123 on 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 ---Also, where is it written that Dora knows ANYTHING about dealing with someone who is an alcoholic. Dora is doing what she thinks is right, and as far as i can tell she isn't doing terribly. You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.
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She knew Faye drank to drown her issues, she saw that Faye had been holding a bottle like an old friend. It shouldn't take a Ph. D in psychology to figure out that she was in trouble, and that telling her "you're fired, get help", and then just walking away would be about as effective as trying to put out a fire with a can of paint thinner.
Wildroses:
I'm certainly thinking of way way way in the future, but at some point Faye is going to have to start looking for a new job. Do you think she could get one at the Secret Bakery? It'd drag a few more characters we don't see much of back into the strip. I wouldn't mind seeing Elliot again.
But I don't think Faye is going to be in a position to go job hunting for a long time in real and comic. We're probably going to get several months Faye doing some soul searching and the cast reacting to the firing and hospital incidents for ages. I'm betting that in real time we are due for several months of strips in which Faye is in hospital.
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