Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
no one special:
--- Quote from: DrClef on 18 Feb 2015, 23:59 ---I want to find out more than just how cute Claire and Marten are. I want to find out how Claire feels about the Faye Fiasco. I want to see Marten dealing with the little issues that come up when a cis male dates a trans woman: and there ARE issues. Even the nicest, sweetest, most understanding guy in the world WILL have issues because every real relationship has issues.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, this is pretty much where I am. I find it hard to believe that marten has no further questions, concerns, issues at this point. I mean, okay, maybe today there aren't any questions because afterglow, but to imply (as has been implied) that there aren't any at all...? Like DrClef said - it's not that Marten isn't understanding, easygoing, all that jazz. But when starting a trans/cis relationship, there will be issues.
In that vein - could it be considered irresponsible not to address these types of issues up to this point? I mean, if the point is to give life and breadth and depth to this relationship, to really create a voice that most of us aren't hearing - oughtn't there be a responsibility to address things in a more nuanced way? So far, neither Marten nor Claire have shown any real trepidation about their endeavor together minus a few jitters. Do either of them have the wherewithal/self-awareness/life experience to simply dive into this new and distinctly unique (to them) situation, no questions asked? Wouldn't the general public be better educated by a more nuanced and detailed path forward?
Jeph has dealt with many other topics so powerfully and effectively - alcoholism, suicide, anxiety, depression, civil rights. Why, thus far, is this topic being approached so differently?
MooskiNet:
--- Quote from: no one special on 19 Feb 2015, 05:24 ---Why, thus far, is this topic being approached so differently?
--- End quote ---
I think the operative part of your question is 'thus far'. Time moves at a pace that could be called 'glacial' in the QC verse; it's been less than a week since Marten and Claire snuggled on the couch, if I'm tracking correctly, and certainly less than two even if I'm not.
QC has a lot of irons in the fire right now (perhaps too many), but I would imagine there's a great deal of pressure to do the relationship between Marten and Claire 'right' (whatever that means). Also, if a significant amount of your positive feedback comes every time a certain redhead does something cute, you could be excused for having her do something cute a lot more often.
Point is, most if not all the quibbles with how the story is being told tend to resolve themselves as the story continues being told.
swapna:
--- Quote from: no one special on 19 Feb 2015, 05:24 ---
--- Quote from: DrClef on 18 Feb 2015, 23:59 ---I want to find out more than just how cute Claire and Marten are. I want to find out how Claire feels about the Faye Fiasco. I want to see Marten dealing with the little issues that come up when a cis male dates a trans woman: and there ARE issues. Even the nicest, sweetest, most understanding guy in the world WILL have issues because every real relationship has issues.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, this is pretty much where I am. I find it hard to believe that marten has no further questions, concerns, issues at this point. I mean, okay, maybe today there aren't any questions because afterglow, but to imply (as has been implied) that there aren't any at all...? Like DrClef said - it's not that Marten isn't understanding, easygoing, all that jazz. But when starting a trans/cis relationship, there will be issues.
In that vein - could it be considered irresponsible not to address these types of issues up to this point? I mean, if the point is to give life and breadth and depth to this relationship, to really create a voice that most of us aren't hearing - oughtn't there be a responsibility to address things in a more nuanced way? So far, neither Marten nor Claire have shown any real trepidation about their endeavor together minus a few jitters. Do either of them have the wherewithal/self-awareness/life experience to simply dive into this new and distinctly unique (to them) situation, no questions asked? Wouldn't the general public be better educated by a more nuanced and detailed path forward?
Jeph has dealt with many other topics so powerfully and effectively - alcoholism, suicide, anxiety, depression, civil rights. Why, thus far, is this topic being approached so differently?
--- End quote ---
To be honest, I think he wants a positive representation of a trans character and trans issues (which is a good thing), but he's overshooting by a parsec. As you said, every real relationship has issues, but Marten and Claire.. don't. And while it's fine that they're still in their everything-is-perfect-phase of their relationship, we don't need to see every cutesy boring detail - the other couples we saw also had their perfect-relationship phase but after 2-3 comics it was assumed that they are together and everything is fine and we didn't need 30 comics of content-deprived sweetness to know it. Depicting Claire's relationship with Marten so incredibly boring does them no favour.
Let me be clear - I don't need them to fight and I don't need any drama whatsoever in their relationship, but I don't need to watch them make out and gush over each other for months. We could follow Faye or Dora or Tai or Sven or Angus (or anybody, really), who's dealing with their issues and just assume Marten and Claire are happily making out because they don't answer phonecalls or need an hour from the library to the CoD.
Khazgar:
Changing the topic slightly...it's interesting that Claire says that she wants to believe in LETTING the relationship work. It's as if she perceives that the biggest obstacle to her happiness might actually be herself - deep down she knows that she has found a good man but her own anxieties and hang-ups work against her.
I can see Jeph maybe developing on this in the future to give us our much sought after conflict. :wink:
eschaton:
--- Quote from: Carissa79 on 18 Feb 2015, 19:50 ---I'm seeing what some of you are saying about these strips lacking character/plot advancement, having too much dialogue/cuteness, and overall acting as boring filler. But I think it's a good thing that there are so many strips about Marten and Claire just hanging out together. It's a depiction of a relationship between a trans person and a cis person, and I could be totally wrong about this, but I feel like it's a nice thing for trans people to see a representation of themselves being handled in a totally casual way - it's important that we have this emphasis on the relationship because it really secures the fact that just because Claire is trans, it doesn't mean Marten has to treat her any differently than he would have treated Dora, or Padma, or any other girl he's had feelings for. Thoughts?
--- End quote ---
I agree with 100% of what Jeph is trying to portray here. But I read QC to be entertained, not lectured at. Didactic anything turns me the fuck off.
--- Quote from: CaptainFish on 18 Feb 2015, 20:11 ---Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. But then again, Claire's character has had much less of a lobotomy after they started dating than Marten. To me the most interesting thing she said was that she had never opened up about her issues to a cis guy. This implies she has transwomen (or perhaps cis-women) friends which have not been seen in the comic. More characters ahoy?
--- Quote from: DrClef on 18 Feb 2015, 23:59 ---
Epic rant.
--- End quote ---
Right on brother! Or sister! Whatever.
The thing which makes me sad about this is Jeph has written beginnings to relationships much better. The Padma arc was fantastic. It was doomed of course, but it perfectly got across the tension/excitement of meeting someone new and beginning to fall for them. He wrote Padma as the sort of woman I'd have a hard time resisting. The now ancient arc with Steve and Meena (remember when Steve wasn't a one-dimensional bro?) was also very well done from a passion standpoint. And although they were more "comfort" relationships and less full-on passion, Martin/Dora and Faye/Angus were written well. There was nothing particularly deep about Marigold hooking up with Dale, but it was a realistic depiction of two awkward people hooking up regardless.
Claire/Marten had great potential, as I've said in the past. The wedding arc showed amazing chemistry between them, given the combination of friction and sexual tension. But all of the rough edges have been worn off both of them. The whole arc since they've started dating seems like bad slash fiction that was written by a fan of the strip, not Jeph himself.
Maybe Jeph will find a way, a year or two from now (real world time) to plant the seeds of serious relationship issues, if not its total destruction. But by that time if he keeps up this way he may have alienated much of his core readership which wants complicated, intelligent depictions of relationships, and attracted people who just want the puppies and kittens ever after to last. Meaning he'll have hella blowback.
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