Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
valkygrrl:
--- Quote from: Omega Entity on 19 Feb 2015, 17:43 ---
I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to educate.
--- End quote ---
Let's see if I can still do this from memory
I me my mine
thou thee thy thine
ye you your
it its one
he him his
she her hers
we us our
they them their
And of course changes for tense.
Expect people to struggle with anything not on that list, which is to say anything that hasn't entered general usage. Also expect problems with the T words, second person informal has mostly dropped from the language.
snarkyone:
You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
Aziraphale:
--- Quote from: Aziraphale on 19 Feb 2015, 17:27 ---
--- Quote from: CM_albion on 19 Feb 2015, 17:10 ---
i must say, for all that i am a supporter of people being themselves, however that manifests, and will be until the day i die, this minefield of new terminology you have to memorize so as not to offend people gives me a headache sometimes.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: AprilArcus on 19 Feb 2015, 17:18 ---kids these days with their newfangled mouth sounds why in my day we just had gay, straight, cis and trans and you'd like it maybe demisexual or genderqueer if you were a real special snowflake none of these fictives or otherkin you see running around in public like it's anthrocon all day long telling me I have to remember everyone's pronoun in the nominative, accusative, genitive and dative cases or they'll cry in a corner about how I'm erasing them with my linguistic hegemony well I got news for you, take one step across my lawn and I'll be after you with my pink pearl like Robert Rauschenberg with a Willem de Kooning on his easel!
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--- Quote from: Aziraphale ---This reminds me of an old history teacher who was in the habit of calling me "Mark," or occasionally "Brian" (neither of which is my name) because, as she would say every damn time, "You look like a Mark (or Brian)." It's not like she didn't know my name. It's not like it wasn't right there in front of her in black and white in her grade book. Remembering to call someone what they are, by the terminology with which they identify themselves, is as easy as remembering their name. It's also common courtesy.
But if that's asking too much... well, pleased to meet ya, Sparky.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: OmegaEntity ---I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to encourage education, acceptance, and understanding.
Think of it like a cliff face - sure, the determined are going to be all 'fuck you rock wall, Imma climb you like a mofo!', but for the vast, vast majority, they'll throw up their hands and take the path of least resistance -i in this case, they fall back on language that they know and are familiar with, and is easy to understand. Thus the importance of having bite-sized information to hand-feed the less-inclined masses. They're much more likely to make an effort, if they don't feel like it's an impossible endeavor to figure out what is the 'proper' word choice.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Language evolves as understanding evolves (and thank God for that). What I think can tend to complicate things is that it's not just the out-group (in this case, cis/het/etc. people) trying to keep up or figure this stuff out. As IICIH points out, the terminology evolves toward precision, which is always going to be not only more accurate, but probably also less hurtful, to the people on the receiving end of that terminology.
And sure, it's difficult. Hell, I've lost track of the number of proper descriptors for Americans of African descent that have been acceptable use just in my lifetime, and I'm not even that old. But if you care about people -- and while I'm aware I can come across like an asshole sometimes, I try to be kind and respectful to folks -- then you make the effort, regardless of the level of difficulty. Besides, like the rock climber in your metaphor, it gets a hell of a lot easier the more you do it.
Kugai:
--- Quote from: snarkyone on 19 Feb 2015, 18:02 ---You say tomato, I say bruschetta!!
You say potato, I say french fry!!.....
Shit, my snark turned to hunger.... brb.
--- End quote ---
Fries with Tomato Sauce!
Frak!!!
NOW I'm frelling hungry again!!!
*Glowers menacingly*
Omega Entity:
--- Quote from: valkygrrl on 19 Feb 2015, 18:00 ---
--- Quote from: Omega Entity on 19 Feb 2015, 17:43 ---
I think CM_albion means more that, there seems to not be a very unified language that's appropriate across the board. When there's fifteen or more different possible pronouns that a person may or may not find acceptable to be referred by, it can be extremely daunting, especially for those who have little to no experience with appropriate language. It seems like having -so many- terms, with no real consensus on what's acceptable does more to hurt understanding and acceptance among others than it does to educate.
--- End quote ---
Let's see if I can still do this from memory
I me my mine
thou thee thy thine
ye you your
it its one
he him his
she her hers
we us our
they them their
And of course changes for tense.
Expect people to struggle with anything not on that list, which is to say anything that hasn't entered general usage. Also expect problems with the T words, second person informal has mostly dropped from the language.
--- End quote ---
I was referring more to the 'Ne, Ve, Ze, Zie, Xe' type deals, not the adaptation of pronouns that are already commonly in use.
--- Quote from: Aziraphale on 19 Feb 2015, 18:04 ---Language evolves as understanding evolves (and thank God for that). What I think can tend to complicate things is that it's not just the out-group (in this case, cis/het/etc. people) trying to keep up or figure this stuff out. As IICIH points out, the terminology evolves toward precision, which is always going to be not only more accurate, but probably also less hurtful, to the people on the receiving end of that terminology.
And sure, it's difficult. Hell, I've lost track of the number of proper descriptors for Americans of African descent that have been acceptable use just in my lifetime, and I'm not even that old. But if you care about people -- and while I'm aware I can come across like an asshole sometimes, I try to be kind and respectful to folks -- then you make the effort, regardless of the level of difficulty. Besides, like the rock climber in your metaphor, it gets a hell of a lot easier the more you do it.
--- End quote ---
Oh, I certainly try, and i will adapt if asked. I was simply trying to elaborate on what CM might have been trying to get at. I don't think they meant any kind of disrespect, but only that it can get a bit overwhelming at times. I myself tend to overthink things, and then worry that I said something wrong and then the person hates me. But I digress.
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