Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
brown paper bag:
I said it before and I'll say it again: Dora is written to be as mean-spirited as possible and I don't think Jeph knows what to do with her anymore. Dora's character hasn't even displayed any real happiness since the days when she first flirted with Marten, and that period I attribute to a writer who didn't yet know how to portray realistic women. Almost all of Jeph's female characters started out as complete head-cases, but all of them except Dora have displayed positive character growth and development. Even Faye is trying to be a better person. Dora just treats her friends, lovers and family like shit and then runs and hides and cries when she's called on it. Come to think of it, when viewed in that light, Dora might be the most accurate and realistic portrayal of women that Jeph has ever written.(IICIH speaking. By the time I read that sentence, the author was already banned. But it's not too late to say that gross misogyny will be prevented in an inclusive space)
valkygrrl:
--- Quote from: brown paper bag on 04 Mar 2015, 01:21 --- Dora just treats her friends, lovers and family like shit and then runs and hides and cries when she's called on it. Come to think of it, when viewed in that light, Dora might be the most accurate and realistic portrayal of women that Jeph has ever written.
--- End quote ---
Excuse me sir, you seem to have dropped your fedora.
BenRG:
--- Quote from: Akima on 04 Mar 2015, 00:42 ---
--- Quote from: Aziraphale on 03 Mar 2015, 21:37 ---But Dora's actions seem like those of someone who's been asked, or asked themselves, which is more important: control, or people.
--- End quote ---
Presenting a dichotomy like that is odd. "People" seems to be being defined as people other than Dora. Doesn't "people" include Dora? Are not her interests just as important as those of Sven and Faye? Is Dora being offered the same sort of consideration that people seem to be asking of her?
--- End quote ---
You're presenting a feature as a bug. The whole point of this argument is that Dora is creating the dichotomy, not others. She doesn't want to deal with her brother's entitlement issues. She doesn't want to take the initiative to rebuild the bridges with Faye. She seems to need to set the terms of her every interpersonal interaction. With her troubled (bordering on abused) background, this need isn't surprising. However, empathy for her troubles and understanding that Tai isn't exactly brilliant at getting through walls doesn't in any way change the fact that Dora has her own troubles to address.
--- Quote from: Akima on 04 Mar 2015, 00:42 ---
--- Quote from: Reaver on 04 Mar 2015, 00:17 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 03 Mar 2015, 20:50 ---Dora completely ignored Tai's feelings and didn't even seem to realize they existed.
--- End quote ---
Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.
--- End quote ---
Just so. In both cases.
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Not entirely. As I've already said, Tai was clumsy about it but she clearly recognises that Dora is hurting and wants to help. It's just that Dora is not willing to allow anyone to see her pain and, as always, turns it into anger that she directs at those closest to her emotionally and, therefore, the ones she identifies as the greatest threat to her sense of total self-reliant control.
In Tai's defence, this is probably the first relationship she's been in that has had any emotional depth to it. All her prior relationships seem to have been polygamous and based mostly on lust and social hierarchies in the dormitories. She probably really is feeling her way in the dark in the current situation.
--- Quote from: Akima on 04 Mar 2015, 00:42 ---
--- Quote from: BenRG on 03 Mar 2015, 23:35 ---Oh wow, Dora! Yeah, okay, Tai could have chosen a better way to handle this (pushy and tactless is in character for her) but she is right to worry about how defensive Dora has been - not trying to solve problems in her relationships but just trying to edit them out of her life.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure how Dora can "solve problems in her relationships" with Faye or Sven. Faye didn't come to work drunk, and drink on the job, because of Dora. Sven didn't become a douche because of Dora either. I'm not saying that some form of reconciliation is impossible, but I don't think either relationship has problems that can be solved.
--- End quote ---
She does it by reaching out.
Sven is Sven but I haven't seen any evidence of him being 'toxic'. Thoughtless and selfish but he genuinely cares for his sister and, if his timing with Faye sucked, there is no reasonable cause to believe he knew she and Angus were in trouble. That was just bad luck and I think Dora went off the deep end for no reason other than her entrenched resentment of "the more favoured son".
If Dora had said to Tai something like: "I want to still be Faye's friend but she is in a bad place now and I have to be careful; if the timing is bad, I could ruin our friendship forever," then I wouldn't have blinked. Dora is right to believe that any bridge-building must be when Faye is in the right place, emotionally. However, the way she put it, it made it genuinely seem that she was indifferent about Faye and that the ball is in her court about whether she wants to be Dora's friend. If I were Tai and I heard my SO describe one of their best friends in such a dismissive manner, I'd be worried too.
In the end, the most important line is: "Would it kill you to open up a little?" Tai feels that Dora is also editing her out of her life, in emotional terms. No amount of sex can get over a lack of emotional intimacy and Dora not being willing to share her emotions with Tai, especially after something as traumatic as what happend with Faye, is a bad sign
KevxD:
--- Quote from: Reaver on 04 Mar 2015, 00:17 ---
Tai did the exact same thing to Dora, ignoring her pain and instead implied she needed to lighten up and open up more to two people Dora feels have hurt her.
--- End quote ---
My interpretation was Tai wanted Dora to open up to her
brown paper bag:
--- Quote from: valkygrrl on 04 Mar 2015, 01:27 ---Excuse me sir, you seem to have dropped your fedora.
--- End quote ---
Think about it for a minute. Jeph writes women who treat others like garbage all the time. Faye started out as a physically abusive bitch. Oh, and she dumped her boyfriend as soon as he tried to assert his needs. Tai tried to steal Marten's girlfriend on numerous occasions and had the audacity to snap at him when he called her out for dating Dora almost immediately after the breakup. Marigold was a constant asshole to a man who was practically a stranger because of his choice of MMO faction. Hannelore was a stalker on horse tranquilizers. Padma was Dora's shitty personality with a palette swap. Emily... Emily's whole personality is of someone who needs to be put somewhere safe and comfortable where she can't hurt herself.
You know, it's practically a Freudian statement by Jeph that the only girl he can imagine giving Marten a fair shot is functionally a dude(IICIH again. This all happened while I was asleep or away. That sentence was also over the line). It has the lingering scent of misogyny around it.
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