Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2907-2911 (2nd - 6th March 2015)
Emperor Norton:
--- Quote from: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Mar 2015, 17:11 ---Indeed. So, here we come to what I think is the crux of my issue with the meta-thread of these discussions--whether they relate to the current subject, or Dora, or Faye, or Claire ad nauseum. The general approach switches from, "there are issues with this character," to, "this person is a waste of human material."
I'll be the first to admit that human language, as communicated by humans, is imprecise. So some of that is to be expected. But the general flavor of the criticisms are calling out Marigold as a bad person, rather than saying there is an issue with the presentation of the character. If someone identifies with the idea of Marigold the person, then your sweeping criticism of her as a person is going to seem personal. And that is your responsibility.
--- End quote ---
I think this covers more of what I'm saying.
I mean, even I said that Marigold could have responded better, by clearly stating she got distracted and sorry rather than trying to cover up. But lets be honest, that wouldn't have been a very funny comic.
But when people are basically going: this person has these traits, and they are a horrible person because of it, do you seriously think that nobody else with similar traits is going to take that as pretty insulting?
I'm not nearly as bad as Marigold. I have more social sense than she does, but most of the time, her messing things up is from an ignorance of social norms, not from a lack of CARING. She retreated into herself for entirely different reasons than I have over the years (she was bullied, and avoided social contact because of it, I just avoid social contact not because I can't do it, but because it just tires me, even when everyone is being happy and cool), but that social isolation has done terrible things to her social skills.
And seriously, I think that sometimes people get caught up too much in their own social dynamics and forget that not every friendship is going to be the same. Like I said before, I regularly have friends drop by and just hang out at my house all day, and no one would think anything of it if one or the other of us missed a bit of what each other said. Remember that Hanners once basically sat the entire night and watched Marigold play WoW. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the things they do together isn't just hanging out talking.
Marigold probably didn't realize that Hanners was bothered by what sounded to her like "townie drama". Passively hanging out while doing different things is probably NORMAL to the way they hang out. Notice that Hanners wasn't annoyed that Marigold was reading until it was obvious that she wasn't paying attention.
jwhouk:
It just struck me: Hannelore and Marigold are acting like an old married couple. :psyduck:
Perfectly Reasonable:
Marigold was my introduction to QC. I quickly became fond of her. Possibly because I could see aspects of myself in her. I wanted her to slim down, buff up, and lose the loser self image.
She has indeed grown, and I am pleased for her.
I think ReindeerFlotilla has it right. Imperfect people are not -horrible- people.
eschaton:
--- Quote from: Aziraphale on 05 Mar 2015, 11:48 ---Well, she's smart (i.e., book smart). But practically no common sense, empathy, or emotional intelligence. If it's pointed out to her that she's screwed up, she sometimes gets it. But this is far from the first time that Hanners has reached out to her looking for the same friendship or support that she's given, only to be met with a "What was the middle thing?"
--- End quote ---
I disagree that Marigold is particularly book smart. We know she knows how to code it's true. But she displays a general level of ignorance regarding essentially every intellectual subject. Most of the rest of the cast gets to have quips from time to time which show they have knowledge of literature, science, history, etc. Marigold, not so much. She doesn't seem to read anything besides Manga and Yaoi. The one time a someone (okay, in her defense, it was Clinton) tried to engage her in a serious discussion about the ramifications of AI, she was dismissive about the whole thing. She just seems...dull. Perhaps not duller than average, but duller than majority of the cast.
More broadly, as to the original debate. I dislike Marigold because I relate to her. She reminds me of the worst aspects of myself when I was younger - things which, when they come back into my head today at a ripe old age of 35, still make me cringe. I want to forget what a dumbass I was regarding people, not revel in it.
In some ways, I do wonder if Jeph has purposefully crafted Marigold as he has because he wants us to have little compassion for her. I mean, it's less the case now that she's getting booty, but a lot of the central plot elements during her character buildup the first few years she was in the strip were about watching her be embarrassed about something (including the inevitable buildup to being let down by Angus). This stuff would have been far more horrifyingly painful if she was a nice person. Since she's kind of a self-centered ass, however, we can just laugh about it. She's the nerd we can all feel free to punch away at.
Edit: New Comic - Jeph makes my last point for me.
ASB84:
For reasons that I can't explain, and probably should leave alone anyway, I find the phrase "audibly farted" to be disproportionately hilarious.
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