Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE

Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015

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BenRG:
After millennia on the job, I think that you'd be hard-pressed to describe anything as being not just another day!

[EDIT]
Just an additional thought: I don't think that this is just a job to Alice, even though she's been doing it long enough that it has become something close to a reflexive behaviour to her. My proof? Why tell Jeb about Shelly? This isn't a carrot or even a sugar lump for being a good boy. She's already got what she wants and, if she's as detached and oppressive as some want to believe, she has no particular reason to care about reinforcing the lesson in such a manner. However, she pauses and, not only points Jeb in the right direction but actually makes it clear she's going to make it her business to smooth the road.

This is just how Alice is. The comparison with Sir Terry Pratchet's character Esme 'Granny' Weatherwax is very clear. Both are somewhat antisocial and make a big show of being misanthropes. However, when it comes down to it, they both care for their charges on a deep and personal level and never miss a chance to help when it is presented. Please note the latter clause 'when it is presented' - Neither Granny nor Alice strike me as the sorts to go busy-bodying about, looking for opportunities to interfere. However, if they are in the right place and time, they'll take action. We have yet to see something similar to an event in one Discworld novel, where Granny actually challenges Death over the fate of a baby, using her own life as a stake (Death cheats on her behalf, but that's just Him). It will be interesting to see if Jeph chooses to put in a scene like that.

Mlle Germain:

--- Quote from: mikmaxs on 18 May 2015, 23:11 ---I think I should say here that most of my criticisms of Alice Grove only work (At least in my opinion,) because Alice Grove is a comedy, which is heavily working against the drama and characters. It's hard to tell a dramatic story when you're constantly telling jokes. It's hard to laugh when the main character is a jerk. (Unless the story constantly gives them their comeuppance, which you can't do when your main character is Superwoman in a world of paper people.)

--- End quote ---
Yeah, that I agree with, although I don't see Alice as a jerk. But yes, in a comedy, her character (and others as well) feels out of place and exaggerated. I, for my part, wish Alice Grove would go more into the serious, story-driven direction instead of the one with the bad butt and tail jokes -- I've commented on this before.


--- Quote ---First off: When I say 'Likeable' I mean 'A character that I enjoy watching.' (Or reading about, or hearing, etc.) A lot of characters are not likeable in that I would hate to be around them in real life, (Jayne Cobb from Firefly comes to mind, for example,) but they are still caught under 'Likeable' the way I'm going to use the word here. Meanwhile, characters that are interesting or driving don't have to be 'Likeable' to be good. (Later seasons of Walter White from Breaking Bad come to mind.)

--- End quote ---
Ah, fair enough -- I apparently understood you wrong. As I said, I also way prefer stories where I can relate to the characters somewhat,or where I enjoy watching them, even if I don't like them; and for me this is kind of the case with Alice. But then I could never watch Breaking Bad, for example, because the character is someone I absolutely can't relate to. I guess that's personal taste.

Wildroses:
Alice does understand how people tick. Jeb is not going to be brooding on how to get revenge on mean old Alice for squashing him so thoroughly as Alice has given him something far more interesting to think about. Go on date with pretty girl who likes you is a far better prospect than get revenge on dangerous village witch.

FunkyTuba:
Some thoughts, in order of them crossing my mind:

1) I'm not so sure Alice Grove is a comedy

2) The pace only feels glacial. Go back and read the whole thing again, then consider Alice has been there millennia. Whatever few weeks or months we've witnessed in-comic time are nothing to her. (Think Ents (considering the aroboreal themes here, it's probably pretty darn appropos)) ANY change to her routine, like bringing aliens to town instead of smiting them herself and being done with them, will be much faster change to her than we think. I'd recommend re-setting your expectations accordingly.

3) With a only twice-a-week update schedule, we're even more exposed to time compression. Have patience with Jeph and let him tell this story the way he needs to.

4) I said it in a previous MCDT and I'll say it again... we still know virtually nothing about Alice's challenges, limitations, long-term goals, or her motivations, we don't even know if they're present or not present.
As such, projecting your expectations into criticisms of her will show you a lot more about yourself than about her as a character or this story as a whole :D

mikmaxs:
As a response to that, FunkyTuba:
1, if Alice Grove isn't a comedy, then Jeph needs to STOP TELLING JOKES. I will believe that it's not a comedy when it stops acting like one.

For 2-4, I have only one response for the lot: You write a story with your limitations in mind. When you write a book, you don't rely on pictures and sounds to tell the story. When you write a movie, you don't rely on words to carry you through. When you write a twice-weekly updating webcomic, you don't use the update schedule as an excuse for bad pacing.

A slow update schedule would work with QC, because the plot is minimal compared to the character interactions and humor, but if you want to have a heavy plot, you need to either update more quickly (which isn't an option) or write it in such a way that things don't move at a glacial pace. (Alternately, Jeph could only update once a month with a lot more content per update). We should know something about our character once we're nine months in.

For example, JL8: It's a webcomic that updates maaaybe once a week, but more likely once or twice a month. (It's a loose schedule.) E ery update moves the plot along pretty far, though, and it never lets humor get in the way of plot. It tells jokes occasionally, but not as a staple. (I don't think there's been any major funny moments in a few months, in fact.) JL8 has all the same limitations as Alice Grove, but actually deals with them effectively.

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