Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE
Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
BenRG:
--- Quote from: Method of Madness on 31 May 2015, 10:24 ---Well yeah, but my question is this. Is being lawful evil somehow "better" than being chaotic evil?
--- End quote ---
Not better, not worse but rather different methodologies and world-views. A Lawful will create and follow elaborate structures to achieve their ends. A Chaotic will just whoop it up and smash everything that gets in his or her way.
--- Quote from: Method of Madness on 31 May 2015, 10:24 ---Also wait, how is Batman not good?
--- End quote ---
It depends on your preferred version of Batman. My version of him in my head is someone who wants to prevent evil from ever winning and is quite able to use ethically dubious means to do so. He'd never hurt the innocent but he'd use means that would not meet the approval of a paladin to achieve the outcomes he wants.
"Win if you can, lose if you must; always cheat."
Or...
"Seven billion lives hanging in the balance? I'd lie, cheat, steal and use every underhand and unethical means necessary. The losers can fight over the 'good conduct' medal."
mikmaxs:
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 30 May 2015, 22:43 ---Would you argue that beyond being an unsympathetic character she's a badly portrayed one?
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It really depends on what Jeph is trying to portray. My issue is that I don't know what he's trying to do, nine months in. If he was clearly trying to create an ambiguous character it'd be one thing, but the intent isn't very clear. If I'm supposed to like her I can't because she's a jerk, if I'm supposed to empathize with her I can't because we don't know anything about her, if I'm supposed to dislike her then she should have started some kind of character growth by now, and if I'm supposed to be intrigued by her then we should be getting information more clearly or quickly 'cause at the current pace I really don't care.
I can't say she's *badly* characterized because she's barely been characterized at all.
Method of Madness:
--- Quote from: Benergy on 31 May 2015, 10:55 ---It depends on your preferred version of Batman. My version of him in my head is someone who wants to prevent evil from ever winning and is quite able to use ethically dubious means to do so. He'd never hurt the innocent but he'd use means that would not meet the approval of a paladin to achieve the outcomes he wants.
"Win if you can, lose if you must; always cheat."
Or...
"Seven billion lives hanging in the balance? I'd lie, cheat, steal and use every underhand and unethical means necessary. The losers can fight over the 'good conduct' medal."
--- End quote ---
Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding it, but that description sounds far more chaotic good than lawful neutral.
osaka:
I was about to say that Method. Although I believe that the first one is definitely Chaotic Neutral (if taken at face value) while the second one is Chaotic Good.
Storel:
Yeah, I wouldn't say Batman is always lawful in the strictest sense. He breaks a lot of society's laws in his pursuit of criminals: he taps phones and hacks computers without a court order, he breaks into buildings without a search warrant to find evidence, and so on. You have to wonder how a lot of the criminals he arrests ever get convicted.
But he never plants false evidence, or lies on the stand to falsely convict anyone. Basically, he only breaks the laws that get in the way of bringing criminals to justice, and all the people he goes after are ones who've broken what he considers the important laws -- the laws against hurting innocent people. So you can argue that he obeys a different set of laws, but he's still lawful under those laws. I certainly wouldn't call him chaotic -- everything he does is pretty highly structured.
And since everything he does is for the purpose of fighting evil, I suppose you could even argue that he's Lawful Good, but not in the sense of the typical paladin who won't break any laws. That may be a limitation of the people who play those paladins, or the DMs who enforce their interpretation of Lawful Good behavior, however. Then again, you could also argue that a man who decides which laws he'll follow and which laws he won't is more Neutral than Lawful. I could see Batman as Neutral Good.
I dunno. I haven't played D&D in so long, I have no real idea how the categories are "supposed" to work these days...
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