Fun Stuff > ENJOY
Star Wars: Episode VIII
LeeC:
"I have seen this raw strength once before" brought flashbacks of DBZ and power levels. It was one thing to be strong in the force before, but now its seems (granted this is just what I got out of the trailer) that Rey and I am assuming Kylo's strength in the force in over 9000.
Luke seems like a punk who doesn't want to help the galaxy. He appears (again this is just what the trailer seemed and may not be the final product) like he will train Rey, something will happen, and he will abandon her or quit.
_____________________________
What would you call this "grey jedi" faction? I always hated the term "grey jedi" since it makes it seem like its a light grey, considering the jedi are the light side. Would you just say "the force?" I know the TV shows do not influence the movies, but in the recent season of Rebels they encounter a force being (The Bendu as described earlier) that is neither light or dark. He talks to the former jedi Kannan. Kannan asks him if he is light or dark, jedi or sith. The Bendu scolds Kannan saying "The force isn't even like that. There is no light side or dark side; there is just the force." I am parsing of course, but being that this show has Disney fully behind it, I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they are leaning to with this new trilogy and merely sprinkling it around in their TV series. TFA, and the new trilogy, is essentially the millenials taking over the star wars ethos. They are looking at the philosophies of the older generations and coming to their own new conclusion. Maybe even realizing how the older generation, who are so polarized towards one side or the other, has left the galaxy in ruins. They are coming up with their own philosophies of something in the middle. Nothing is wholly good or wholly evil. You have to find the actual balance of things for the betterment of the galaxy. Balance in the force comes from balance of ones self.
Neko_Ali:
Grey Jedi makes sense though, because the Sith originated from dissidents of the Jedi order. There have been other groups that use the Force, but they have largely died out. The Jedi remained the largest faction, devoted to the 'Light Side'. They embraced philosophy, helping others and restraint. Some of their order disagreed and explored manipulating the Force through emotion, passion. They were cast out and formed the Sith order becoming obsessed with only power and embracing the 'Dark Side', using techniques forbidden by the Jedi. But the important thing is that the Force itself makes no distinction, and may or may not be separately intelligent. The Light and Dark sides were invented by the Jedi, other factions of Force wielders just use the Force, or whatever name they called it.
The Grey Jedi are those who straddled the line between Jedi and Sith. They embraced part of both philosophies, using both reason and passion to explore the Force, but not falling prey to the fanatical blindness against the other side. Their numbers were never very high as they were not respected by either side. But both the Grey Jedi and Sith originally came from the Jedi order. Many of them literally as they started out training as Jedi but grew disillusioned and either left or were banished. Examples: Count Dooku used to be a Jedi master before he became Sith apprentice to Darth Sidious. Ahsoka Tano was a Jedi padawan who should and would have been made a Knight but was framed for terrorist attacks and banished from the order. Though she was proven innocent she refused to return and became Grey Jedi.
All of this is not new to Disney. These things existed as part of the referenced canon under Lucas and greatly expanded on in the EU/Legends line. It just wasn't dealt with directly in the first six movies, which were about the Jedi and Sith and the wars they were involved in.
Case:
--- Quote from: LeeC on 13 Oct 2017, 06:52 ---"I have seen this raw strength once before" brought flashbacks of DBZ and power levels. It was one thing to be strong in the force before, but now its seems (granted this is just what I got out of the trailer) that Rey and I am assuming Kylo's strength in the force in over 9000.
--- End quote ---
Uhmmmh - While it's safe to assume that this forum is rather nerdy, maybe it would be worthwile not to assume that everybody is intimate familiar with DragonBallz, or its technical aspects? Some of us were exiled from that beautiful land called neoteny (just) before DBZ became a youth-culture phenomenon. (And what's the 9000 about? And how do you conclude that only Kylo Ren is ridiculously overpowered - why not Rey, too?)
Are you referring to Midi-Clorians? Or is it merely that the "Outsider with never-before seen Force-sensitivity going up against the evil Force-Goliath"-meme has become a bit tedious - certainly so after Luke was retconned as "The guy who defeated the most powerful Jedi of all times after two years of mostly autodidactic training in his meagre spare time".
I mean - what kind of monsters must Rey and Kylo Ren be if they scare someone who is himself the galactic gold-standard for 'ridiculously overpowered Jedi who handily defeated the last never-seen-before ridiculously overpowered Jedi while still green behind the ears'.
Tangential:
I always felt this was the central problem of the former Expanded Universe's novels about Luke, especially after Episodes I-III became canon, and the guy he defeated was elevated to "mythical levels of powerful" -> TDP. He's too damn powerful to easily write credible challenges for him, without invoking yet another attack from a belligerent species from beyond the known Galaxy.
I love Timothy Zahn's novels, but even he seemed to be struggling at times with the question of what a 40-, 50- or 60-year old Luke cannot do, when the 20-year old Luke already handily bested one of the most powerful and most-experienced Force-users ever, after two years of intermittent training, mostly by a Force-ghost. "Decisive Battle for the future of the Galactic Civilization was joined at 10:30 local time. Grandmaster Skywalker set course homewards at 10:41 ..." makes for a pretty boring read. Zahn solved this with the idea that while SeniorLuke was certainly capable of crippling battleships with his mind alone, using his full force-strength came with a price-tag: The more actively a powerful Force-user wields the Force, the more desensitized they become to its subtle guidances (force-assisted piloting, lightsaber combat, blaster-deflection are all passive 'talents'), so Luke put himself on a "Force-diet".
--- Quote from: LeeC on 13 Oct 2017, 06:52 ---Luke seems like a punk who doesn't want to help the galaxy. He appears (again this is just what the trailer seemed and may not be the final product) like he will train Rey, something will happen, and he will abandon her or quit.
--- End quote ---
Ah, ok. I sometimes forget that the word punk existed before punk-rock or punk-culture. Over here, it's mostly associated with punk-attitude and culture (wiki: "Punk-related ideologies are mostly concerned with individual freedom and anti-establishment views. Common punk viewpoints include anti-authoritarianism, a DIY ethic, non-conformity, direct action and not selling out."
Come to think of it: Patricide is certainly one of the purest expressions of anti-authoritarian attitude, even if you eventually settle for merely chopping Dad's hand off.
So yes, Luke is a punk in all meanings of the word. What else is new? :wink:
Neko_Ali:
So, I came back from The Last Jedi, and it's good, quite good. It is not a beat for beat retelling of Empire the way Force Awakens was, but there were quite a few call outs. Like in ESB, the First Order is on the rise and the Resistance is on the run. That's not particularly a spoiler, since that's where we left off the last movie. The heroes have to split up and go on their own journeys but are mostly brought together for the finale. There were a number of scenes that were directly call outs of the original trilogy as well, but they make sense in the context of the film, and it does tell it's own story. In all, it's a worthy addition to the franchise.
LeeC:
There were a lot of twists and misdirection in the film which made it enjoyable and worried whether the main cast would get out alive. It was a good and complex movie, but not great. I saw some take to twitter and call it "god awful" and I highly disagree. It may not be what we wanted to happen in the saga, but it wasn't anything we expected either. There were some clear nods to Ep 5 and 6 but it was new and different, going in a different direction than any of the past movies. I also just saw it and may need a day or two (or another viewing or two) to fully grasp everything.
(click to show/hide)I felt like there were a lot of moments where an older SW movie would have let the good guys plan pan out by dumb luck and pulled off the escape, killed the bad guys, turned the bad guy to a good guy, etc. only for it to then immediately turn around and screw them over and their situation only got worse. Very Game of Thronesy which is a nice change of pace.
I feel like all the characters had their own conflicts and character arcs to go through. Poe had to let go of being a hot shot soldier who takes big risks for big rewards and become a leader who looks at the bigger picture. Finn and Roses's arc was very weak but it was about doing the right thing, spreading hope, and trying to be big damn heroes instead of just rank and file soldiers. Luke was coming to terms with his past and letting go of the trauma and stepping in to help the galaxy for a change. He's a damaged man who tried to find inner peace by rejecting the outside world and in the end found it by helping others. Rey finally comes to terms with her abandonment and moves past it. Her brashness, although stupid, did get her in a position to take down Snoke though it was mostly through Kylo's decision to no longer be pushed around, but to do the pushing around.
I was not happy with Luke's end, was hoping there would be a resurgence in him to reconnect with the universe and save the day only to then give Rey proper training. Yoda's appearance seemed like that's what was in store for him...instead he punks out Kylo and then becomes one with the force. Sure he may show up as a force ghost but it seemed like Luke's story was cut early and not at all done justice. I wasn't a big fan of the outrun the First Order ever so slowly plot device either, and felt that could have been handled better in the writing room with a better idea.
Where those red guard the Knights of Ren? The Back to back with Kylo and Ren fighting them off was fun.
I feel like I need to watch it another time or so to fully grasp it but if I were to rate the Star Wars movies from greatest to worst:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi (honestly 4 and 6 are neck and neck and can swap places depending on my mood)
4. Rouge One
5. The Last Jedi (pending further review)
6. The Force Awakens
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones (honestly 1 and 2 could also swap depending on my mood)
10. The Star Wars Christmas Special
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version