Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE
Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
improvnerd:
The problem with that theory is that there seems to be more evidence for the biological faction being in space. The praesides seem to be biological, and Ardent shows obvious signs of biological augmentation. Gavia has nanotech (as does Ardent), but seems convinced that sentient AI is impossible.
It also doesn't explain where Alice's armor came from.
Most likely to me is that both earth and habits contain a mixture of both factions.
mr.jacob:
On the subject of the Nightwalker, I'd personally believe something closer to Alice's explanation, that they're just lost nanobots, but I have a feeling we're about to find out a whole lot about it so let's hold off there. However, I like your theory about the Praeses using the kids' AI to attract Nightwalker attacks.
--- Quote from: Samik on 19 Mar 2016, 10:44 ---There doesn't seem to me to be any reason at all for a re-opening of hostilities.
--- End quote ---
Alice said that the Praeses have held some unfading grudge since The Blink and want everyone on the ground wiped-out so they can "come down from orbit and reclaim earth"[1]
BenRG:
--- Quote from: improvnerd on 19 Mar 2016, 17:31 ---The problem with that theory is that there seems to be more evidence for the biological faction being in space. The praesides seem to be biological, and Ardent shows obvious signs of biological augmentation. Gavia has nanotech (as does Ardent), but seems convinced that sentient AI is impossible.
--- End quote ---
I've long held the opinion that the sentient AIs were the cause of the Blink and that they were operating independently of the pro-technology human faction.
Also, just being pro-technology/AI as a road forward does not make that faction unable or unwilling to use genetic augmentation. Even though it's not their choice of means to progress human society doesn't mean that they won't use it for medical or cosmetic reasons.
FWIW, I suspect that those currently on Earth are made up of two groups: Those who had been neutral in the Great War and had just wanted to live their lives without needless complexity and those who had been abused and misused by the factions and would be better off forever out of their grasp, like Alice and the other Super Soldiers.
Samik:
@improvnerd, you're not wrong there. There's definitely no certainty at all that it is the biologicals on earth, or that the two factions were split up that way at all. I guess I'm just making that assumption since the majority of earth's inhabitants appear to be unmodified, and not have much in the way of technology at their disposal.
Anyway, as for the point about Alice's armor, I don't see any reason why it would be a problem if it was non-organic. Just because the biological faction focused on biological self-modification, doesn't mean they'd instantly abandon use of all mechanical tools. One side puts a chip in their head to help them aim better, the other side biologically augments their eyes to help them aim better, but they're both still shooting guns. (Speaking generally here. Alice's weapon of choice seems to be her own two hands.) Basically what BenRG said - just because there was an ideological preference towards one type of technology doesn't mean there would be an absolute, hard and fast line, with no blurring or crossover.
@mr.jacob, regarding what Alice said about the Praeses' ideological grudge: she basically admits it's guesswork.
--- Quote ---Alice: The Praeses have been here since the Blink. Their ideological grudge hasn't dissipated with time.
Gavia: We have everything we need in orbit. We have no reason to take over earth.
Alice: You don't. The Praeses clearly have a motive.
Gavia: You're answering every flaw I point out with another, even more paranoid explanation. You don't know the truth, you're just manufacturing a conspiracy theory out of your own fears and prejudices!
Alice: You may be right. But I can't afford to take any chances.
--- End quote ---
I like the Alice character, and I think her heart is basically in the right place, but I think Gavia's criticisms are not entirely off the mark here. I'm not prepared to consider Alice an entirely reliable narrator at this point.
--- Quote from: BenRG on 20 Mar 2016, 01:23 ---I've long held the opinion that the sentient AIs were the cause of the Blink and that they were operating independently of the pro-technology human faction.
--- End quote ---
This much I absolutely agree with. It's my theory, and I'm sticking to it, that there was a run-away AI scenario, and they ultimately took matters into their own hands.
Edit: Ok, major point that just occurred to me.
--- Quote ---Alice: The Praeses have been here since the Blink. Their ideological grudge hasn't dissipated with time.
--- End quote ---
If both the orbital and earthbound populations are a mix of both pre-blink factions, then why would the Praeses have an "ideological grudge" against those on Earth at all? The only major ideological schism we've been presented with so far is AI faction vs. bio-mod faction. The only explanation I can see is that one faction stayed on earth and one wound up in orbit. And I can't see the earth dwellers having been the tech faction.
Edit 2: An exchange that seems to undermine me:
--- Quote ---Alice: So Gavia uses nanotech. Why don't you?
Ardent: Philosophical differences.
Gavia: Technology has been the way humanity has interacted with the universe since before the dawn of time. By embracing it to the utmost, I am human in the truest sense.
Ardent: Whereas I believer that technology insulates us from the universe. It prevents us from experiencing things as we were meant to experience them - through the senses evolution gave us.
Alice: Evolution didn't give you blue skin, pointy ears, and a tail. Or the ability to regrow body parts.
Ardent: There's nothing in the rules that says we can't help evolution along.
--- End quote ---
That definitely reads as support to improvnerd's position.
Edit 3: May be over-thinking some of this. It's been 5,000 years. There's no obligation of anyone alive now to have held fast to the ideologies of their predecessors. Alice/Sedna and the Praeses may have done so to some extent, but the populations at large are probably just folks living as best they can at this point.
BenRG:
FWIW, my call is that the space-dwelling population can trace its ancestry back to both the bio-tech and synthetic-tech factions. However, over five millennia, there has been considerable cross-pollination of ideas and the distinctions between the two factions has faded away leaving a more homogeneous 'Spacebourne' society.
The Earth-dwellers are not necessarily descended from anti-technology groups. They're just descended from those who did not feel strongly enough either way to support either faction (and those who supported neither).
I have no doubt that the immediate post-Blink millennium involved a population crash on Earth. I doubt more than 20% of the population still on Earth post-Blink survived the loss of the technological infrastructure that delivered food, water, shelter and healthcare. The super-soldiers had likely their hands full at that time helping the various communities develop the basic strategies and resources needed to survive.
--- Quote from: emsilly on 20 Mar 2016, 04:53 ---Given that the Night Walker is attracted to Gavia/Ardent (I think Gavia), and has been staring at the Moon for a long time, surely the reason it stares at the Moon is because it detects nanobots in space?
--- End quote ---
This is a longshot guess but I'm betting the Sentient AIs set up shop on the Moon (probably suitably below the surface) and the Night Walker, in its combined form, can pick up something from those facilities (maybe radio signals). It might even be that the Night Walker is one of many 'agents' the AIs left behind on Earth to monitor events and that the 'staring at the moon' is the transmit/receive synchronisation as it uploads its latest observations and downloads any new directives.
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