Topic: WCDT Strips 3241 - 3245 (13-17 June 2016) (Read 72421 times)

Emperor Norton · « **Reply #150 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 19:26 »

It's not just that she is assuming Clinton is a bad person with no evidence, she is steamrolling Brun's interpretation of things as well. Whatever her issues with social cues, etc. Brun was there, and Renee was not. And she is jsut trampling over it like what Brun experienced means nothing.

I'm not assuming Renee is a bad person, but what she is doing in this comic, as well as earlier on the phone with Clinton, is straight up messed up.

Tova · « **Reply #151 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 19:38 »

She's not quite streamrolling Brun's interpretation. She was suspicious. Arguably understandably so. But she has conceded to Brun's opinion in today's comic (even if it was mainly to avoid a fight).

I don't think what she's doing is 'messed up' at all. She's concerned for Brun's welfare. Maybe overly so, but I think saying it's messed up is going a bit too far. We know what she doesn't. The omniscient viewpoint, remember? It's in the sig.

Edit: Oh bugger, I forgot. It's not in the sig anymore. But we know all kinds of things the characters we are watching don't, and we need to remember that when evaluating their actions.
Edit 2: Ah, you probably hadn't seen the new comic when you wrote that post, but it's up now!
Edit 3: Talking about a comic where you can only react up to the second last one you've seen can get kind of tricky.

jheartney · « **Reply #152 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 19:43 »

Up at 4 for baking? Secret Bakery Renee she is!

There could also be an element of self-serving in chasing Clinton away. If Brun tries to follow Renee's schedule (i.e. in bed by 9), contact with Clinton could disrupt that.

blt · « **Reply #153 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 19:58 »

My initial feeling was that Brun wasn't comfortable with Renee's hug when she came in, but in these following pages she doesn't seem un-confortable with Renee being close. She's hard to read though, because she doesn't seen to show much discomfort on her face other than when she had Clinton bring her to the hotel.

Renee is a super touchy person though.

SomeCanadianWeirdo · « **Reply #154 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 20:00 »

I sure didn't get the idea she would be huggy in her earlier appearances. Since she was sort of a Faye equivalent punchy would be more expected that huggy.

~~blue5~~ · « **Reply #155 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 20:26 »

Clinton was early on borderline overbearing but i think the experience from the different events changed the character. Renee was and still might be projecting sarah mclachlan "possession".

Brun has her own way of dealing with stuff. Sometimes not the best but an individual. Brun will join the COD fold and will be the faye replacement. I wonder how faye will take it. Ironically faye's new employment has made her think a bit more like an adult and less like a child

Milayna · « **Reply #156 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 20:29 »

Quote from: blt on 15 Jun 2016, 19:58

My initial feeling was that Brun wasn't comfortable with Renee's hug when she came in, but in these following pages she doesn't seem un-confortable with Renee being close. She's hard to read though, because she doesn't seen to show much discomfort on her face other than when she had Clinton bring her to the hotel.

Renee is a super touchy person though.

Well hell Renee's giving ME anxiety being that touchy-feely. I dunno, Brun looks to me like she's kind of...conditioned to expect and accept this from Renee. Like, Renee knows that Brun isn't good at reading subtle cues, or that she assumes the worst/danger/disapproval in the absence of indisputable information to the contrary, so she uses more blatant cues to indicate her support.

And that kind of thing...can be both uncomfortable and reassuring at the same time. I'm reminded of a time a few months ago, when I went to an anime convention on the understanding that a friend (also autistic) had a hotel room to put me up in, but for most of the day she barely responded to my attempts to contact her and I was starting to to lowkey freak out by the time I met her in a restaurant...when I told her that I wasn't doing great she wanted to hug and I complied. Which was as I stated, both very uncomfortable, but also nice, in a way.

I'm obviously projecting a great deal here. I don't know Brun's situation exactly, just that I become more and more convinced that she's autistic, and am thus trying to understand her along the lines of how I would feel in that situation. So take anything I say about this as purely advisory.

Anyway, to refer back to what I said in my previous post...well, Renee's relationship with Brun looks complicated and believable to me, not something I can pass summary judgment on, probably.

Near Lurker · « **Reply #157 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 20:41 »

You know, it looks like Renee is saying words, but all I can read is "MINE."

chaospersonified · « **Reply #158 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 20:53 »

Quote from: blt on 15 Jun 2016, 19:58

My initial feeling was that Brun wasn't comfortable with Renee's hug when she came in, but in these following pages she doesn't seem un-confortable with Renee being close.

What I got from that wasn't that Brun was uncomfortable with hugs, but that, as you concluded, Renée is a huggy person. I am also a hugger. I try not to hug those who are uncomfortable with it, but I've absolutely smother-hugged folk that weren't prepared for it.

That Brun just muttered'oof'' without pulling away, that's a sign she already expected that kind of response from Renée. She wasn't surprised, or visibly upset.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #159 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 20:53 »

Okay, on the one hand, I can see where Renee is coming from. Brun has just been in a fire; she's lost her home, her job and her belongings; her life has been turned upside down. And then she hears that a strange guy has been helping Brun in a difficult situation, of course alarm bells are going off and internal sirens are screeching.

On the other hand, her reactions to what Brun has said kinda feels to me like she believes that Brun can't make her own decisions, that she needs to be constantly supervised. Maybe its just expecting the worse of a new character, so lets wait to see how Renee develops.

Magniras · « **Reply #160 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:05 »

Ah, 4 o'clock in the morning. Or, as we irresponsible people refer to it, "Stumble Home Drunk O'clock".

KOODustin · « **Reply #161 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:09 »

Anyone else get the feeling that Renee might have a wee bit of a crush?

brasca · « **Reply #162 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:13 »

4 AM. Reminds me of my old convenience store morning shift.

Renee comes off better in this strip than the previous one so I'm reserving judgement.

Oenone · « **Reply #163 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:17 »

I love Renee! And I also don't think she's neurotypical-- I think she's very aware of the power of routines, and the fact that Brun is comfy enough with her to mention she's lost hers, and that Renee immediately popped up with hers, makes me think that she thinks about hers a lot. Plus, Renee vibes to me like someone with adhd; quick emotionality with a treatment plan centering a more rigid sleep and exercise routine.

Zastie · « **Reply #164 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:33 »

Hrmm, yea before this comic I was giving Renee some benefit-of-the-doubt but she seems pretty control-y. Kinda like putting Brun under her thumb. She kinda skipped over remembering that Brun is a bartender and dismissed it which gives me the impression that it isn't ill-intended on Renee's part but that Renee has an overly-protective attitude towards Brun. Kinda more like, "I'm doing this to protect you," and not, "I'm doing this to keep you all to myself!" if that makes any sense.. kinda like an over-protective parent.

Mr. Doctor · « **Reply #165 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:40 »

9 PM? Really? Hhahahahahahahahha. I guess I'm simply a night owl, it just looks so alien to me.

hedgie · « **Reply #166 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:51 »

Last few times I have seen a sunrise, it was from the other end.

Aziraphale · « **Reply #167 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 21:57 »

De-lurking.

I was iffy about Brun at first, but I've grown to like her. I didn't mind Renee at first (what little we saw of her back during the Secret Bakery/Padma storyline, assuming it's the same Renee), but she's rapidly wearing out her welcome. I'll admit that some of this is colored by my own experiences with people who were very good at hiding unhealthy, possessive, and controlling behavior behind a "helpful" facade, but what I'm seeing here is making me a bit squirmy in the same way that Clinton's early appearances did, and the way certain people IRL did before I put some distance between me and them.

Clinton appears to have done some growing up during the time skip. He's got work to do yet, but at least he's doing the work. I don't know what Renee's deal is, but hopefully she does the same sooner rather than later.

Quote from: hedgie on 15 Jun 2016, 21:51

Last few times I have seen a sunrise, it was from the other end.

Glad I'm not the only one who's had days with multiple sunrises.

Tova · « **Reply #168 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 22:20 »

Quote from: Aziraphale on 15 Jun 2016, 21:57

Glad I'm not the only one who's had days with multiple sunrises.

No, you could still be the only one who's had that.

If I were getting up at 04:00 every day, I'd be in bed by 21:00 more often than not, people. If not earlier. Luckily for me, 05:00 is about as early as I get up. I'm terrible at maintaining a routine, though. My sleep start and end times are never at the same time twice in a row. Probably part of the reason I have such a hard time waking up.

Edit: My bold prediction: most of you will warm to Renee in time. Just as most people have warmed to the other cast members that gave an initially negative impression.

hedgie · « **Reply #169 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 22:39 »

I dunno. I'm *still* not sure about that Marten guy.

Tova · « **Reply #170 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 22:45 »

Oh yeah, good point. Okay, apart from Marten.

Neko_Ali · « **Reply #171 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 22:47 »

This really doesn't seem like the Renee we knew from before at The Secret Bakery. Back then she was a lot more surly and aggressive to everyone. Her phone conversation with and about Clinton was more in line with what we've seen and heard about her before. I guess Brun brings out the better in her.

BenRG · « **Reply #172 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 23:07 »

I have to agree with cucumber. Brun is typically hard to read but her reaction to '4am' seems to say that, whilst she needs a new routine, she really doesn't want to use Renee's routine. It may also indicate that she's not entirely keen with the thought of moving in with Renee either.

KOODustin · « **Reply #173 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 23:24 »

I don't really get where people think there's something wrong with Renee. If my crush theory ends up being wrong, she COULD just be a protective friend. Some dude Brun doesn't know just randomly shows up and is pretty insistent on repeatedly putting himself into the life of her down-on-her-luck friend? I'd probably be suspicious, too. Especially if that friend was not always the best judge of character or lacking in social skills to begin with.

Thrillho · « **Reply #174 on:** 15 Jun 2016, 23:25 »

Quote from: Aziraphale on 15 Jun 2016, 21:57

De-lurking.

I was iffy about Brun at first, but I've grown to like her. I didn't mind Renee at first (what little we saw of her back during the Secret Bakery/Padma storyline, assuming it's the same Renee), but she's rapidly wearing out her welcome. I'll admit that some of this is colored by my own experiences with people who were very good at hiding unhealthy, possessive, and controlling behavior behind a "helpful" facade, but what I'm seeing here is making me a bit squirmy in the same way that Clinton's early appearances did, and the way certain people IRL did before I put some distance between me and them.

Clinton appears to have done some growing up during the time skip. He's got work to do yet, but at least he's doing the work. I don't know what Renee's deal is, but hopefully she does the same sooner rather than later.

Quote from: hedgie on 15 Jun 2016, 21:51
Last few times I have seen a sunrise, it was from the other end.

Glad I'm not the only one who's had days with multiple sunrises.

Definitely not.

osaka · « **Reply #175 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 00:09 »

Brun's mental gearings are trying their darnedest to confirm that 4AM does in fact exist and that cities are actually assembled that early in the morning.

QuestionableIntentions · « **Reply #176 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 01:01 »

I don't like Renee telling Brun "You have trouble figuring out people's intentions". There is such a thing as a self fullfilling prophecy.

TinPenguin · « **Reply #177 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 01:03 »

I've managed 5am for years, but yeah, you do have to be in bed ridiculously early (for a young'un). Sucks if you live with other people. Finishing work at lunchtime is the reward, though. You may wake in darkness, but you always get to see daylight, even in winter.

4am can fuck right off, though. That's the devil's dancing hour.

Thrillho · « **Reply #178 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 01:37 »

Quote from: QuestionableIntentions on 16 Jun 2016, 01:01

I don't like Renee telling Brun "You have trouble figuring out people's intentions". There is such a thing as a self fullfilling prophecy.

Today on QC forum, an Art Exhibit: Posters And Their Massively Appropriate Usernames

Near Lurker · « **Reply #179 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 01:41 »

Quote from: KOODustin on 15 Jun 2016, 21:09

Anyone else get the feeling that Renee might have a wee bit of a crush?

I don't know if she has a crush, that is to say, a sexual attraction to her - but she comes off as very possessive, sexually or not. I thought I might be imagining it until I got here and found that much if not most of the forum had come to that conclusion a strip earlier than I did.

BenRG · « **Reply #180 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 01:49 »

Something that I noticed and no-one seems to have mentioned yet: Renee goes in to start baking at 4am every morning. Still at tSB confirmed.

Given that, when Marten met Padma, she couldn't even use the 'large blender thing' without setting the shop on fire, the fact that Jim now trust her to go in early to start making the day's stock means that she's likely come a long way from the one-dimensional character who Angus described as being someone so unpleasant that his room-mates couldn't stand her. She might still have an acerbic personality but it is possible that six months (and the departure of Padma, tSB's previous 'reliable one') has led her to mature a little.

Quote from: cucumber error on 15 Jun 2016, 23:36

People tend to like having a place to call home, autistic or no.

But for people like Brun, it's even more important. Other people can't necessarily be held to routines and that sort of disruption would make it difficult for her to live with them. It isn't directly stated but I get the impression that Renee's pitch was possibly: "I'm a busy woman; I'll be mostly out of your hair all day". That said, I really get the impression that Brun would be a lot happier in her own place.

Quote from: KOODustin on 15 Jun 2016, 21:09

Anyone else get the feeling that Renee might have a wee bit of a crush?

Um... No. IMO, Renee does love Brun but it is purely sisterly and platonic. I'm wondering if Jeph is deliberately writing the two of them to be a 'Bizarro Mirror' (to use the phrase used to describe the Coffee of Doom/The Secret Bakery comparison) of Clinton and Claire.

Corsair · « **Reply #181 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 02:48 »

Given how touchy Renee is I'd say they're either involved or Renee wants to be, and given Brun I'm inclined to lean towards the 'wants to be'.

~~blue5~~ · « **Reply #182 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 02:58 »

I believe in having an organized routine but each routine has to work for the individual. I am an astronomer so i have a different sleep pattern to say my wife. But we make it work.

Renee is gearing up for a confrontation with Clinton in the near future. She will tell him that she is looking out for brun and that she does not trust him. And insert threat about physical violence if brun is hurt. Clinton may be taken aback but might have the spine to tell her what she can do with her opinion.

chaospersonified · « **Reply #183 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 04:07 »

Quote from: Corsair on 16 Jun 2016, 02:48

Given how touchy Renee is I'd say they're either involved or Renee wants to be, and given Brun I'm inclined to lean towards the 'wants to be'.

Some people (Hello!) show affection and sympathy through physical contact. It's just the way we process emotion, and has NOTHING to do with attraction. If you saw me with my sister, you'd think it was a Lannister situation, but trust me, no.

chaospersonified · « **Reply #184 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 04:10 »

That is only true if you consider today's comic a sign of romantic love.

Sorry if that was confusing, I'm very tired. I accidentally went by Renée's morning schedule and woke up at 4

DSL · « **Reply #185 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 04:51 »

Still reserving judgment on Renee.

Re: 4 a.m. -- It looks much nicer after a few hours of sleep. I've driven home from work at sunrise for enough years (after a shift that morphed into 14 hours but that's OK, DSL, you're salaried and they're hourly and you're single and ...) that I'll cheerfully fall asleep at 21:00 or 22:00 if it means being rrasonably rested enoigh ar 04:00 to enjoy a quiet morning punctuated by a sunrise. The attractions of the Night World pale after a while, anyway. The social life looks increasingly alien and the TV programming leaves much to be desired.

jwhouk · « **Reply #186 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 05:30 »

I am pretty much convinced that this is, indeed, Angus' ex and TSB employee Renee.

My only question is, what happened to her glasses?

cesium133 · « **Reply #187 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 05:42 »

She went to CoD at some point, Hanners yelled at her, and now she doesn't need glasses anymore.

Hanners is gradually putting the world's optometrists out of business.

QuestionableIntentions · « **Reply #188 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 05:46 »

Quote from: Thrillho on 16 Jun 2016, 01:37

Today on QC forum, an Art Exhibit: Posters And Their Massively Appropriate Usernames

I'm totally trustworthy! Like, at least 40 percent trustworthy!

blt · « **Reply #189 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 05:55 »

I'd forgotten the whole Angus side of things. Sure some people have a pretty dim opinion of Renee right now, but really I'm just seeing "sort of overbearing" and protective threatening that nobody would have had an issue with coming from Faye, and not "ding dong the witch is dead" sort of behaviour. But maybe when she's out and encountering Clinton we'll suddenly see that side of her.

BenRG · « **Reply #190 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 06:02 »

Quote from: jwhouk on 16 Jun 2016, 05:30

My only question is, what happened to her glasses?

What happened to her short hair and a sartorial style that made her look like the early-model Tai? People change over time. In Renee's case, I suspect that she decided to have a full make-over, including wearing contacts.

heyjames4 · « **Reply #191 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 06:25 »

So what do we know about Renee? She works at The Secret Bakery. She's over-protective of Brun. She dated Angus years ago. Angus's roomates (pre-Marigold?) didn't like her. Marten saw her as the bizarro-faye. She saw Padma and Marten start their thing. She shows affection physically.

That's not much to go on. I'm excited to see what happens next.

TheCallMeFez · « **Reply #192 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 06:25 »

Quote from: cesium133 on 16 Jun 2016, 05:42

She went to CoD at some point, Hanners yelled at her, and now she doesn't need glasses anymore.

Hanners is gradually putting the world's optometrists out of business.

CoD is now an Eye-Scream Shop

comicalArchitect · « **Reply #193 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 07:26 »

Everyone's predicting CoD, but what if Brun gets a job at the LIBRARY? They could certainly find a place for her, given that at one point there were six people working there.

cesium133 · « **Reply #194 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 08:11 »

It's perfect! If anyone gets too loud, she can break out the harpoon.

jheartney · « **Reply #195 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 09:23 »

One last post defending Renee.

To those who think she's overprotecting Brun, I invite you to look again at this comic. Brun at the end both goes nonverbal and has to shut her eyes due to overstimulation. She literally grabs onto Clinton and depends on him to navigate her out of it. It's VERY lucky for Brun that she had a trustworthy person there to help her; otherwise things could have become very ugly.

Renee is apparently aware of this side of Brun, and knows how crucial it is for Brun to have a dependable companion if things get bad. Renee, unlike us, has no way to know that Clinton can fill this role. From her point of view this must have been a terrifying turn of events.

Neko_Ali · « **Reply #196 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 09:34 »

While you bring up a good point, and I think it's quite likely how Renee sees the situation. However, this whole point hinges on whether or not Brun can be trusted to make a value call as to Clinton's character, or indeed anyone's character. Renee's reaction is that no, Brun can not be trusted to make that decision on her own. That thought strips Brun's agency from her. It's basically saying "You can't be trusted how to judge people's character, someone else has to do it for you." And unless that is very true, it's an incredibly shitty thing to think of a friend, and it's a very controlling thing. Basically wanting to vet and new friends Brun makes, and automatically rejecting Clinton without ever having met him. At best this is a reaction to serious problems with people either in Renee's or Brun's past who have taking advantage of one of them. Or it's a sign of an abusive relationship where Renee has to have all the control... Which would ironically make Renee the kind of person she warns Brun to stay away from. Obviously, life is rarely one extreme or the other, and their relationship likely falls somewhere in the middle.

But what Renee is ignoring or doesn't want to see is that Clinton isn't just some random guy. Brun at first didn't articulate this well because she was still partly non-responsive from the stress of everything. But she's gone to bat for Clinton and shown how he has demonstrated at least apparently kindness and good will with no sign of trying to take advantage of Brun. But Renee has brushed off all of Brun's opinions and thoughts on the matter and basically swept the matter under the rug with a 'I'm right but I don't want to argue, so we'll just stop talking about it now' reasoning.

eternitygirl · « **Reply #197 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 09:40 »

If Renee is a baker who gets up at 4 AM and Brun is a bartender, who will traditionally get off work at 4 AM (probably later) when do they hang out? Do they have any overlapping awake-and-not-working hours? Are their friendships based exclusively on brunch on their mutual days off and phone tag? Sure, Brun seems to have had an earlier shift at least when she met Clinton, but if that is her regular shift, that is even worse. She would be starting work when Renee gets off work. Plus, the chances that they have the same days off regularly are pretty low - both those jobs often have regularly changing shifts, in my experience.

Maybe that's why Renee is so possessive. She never sees her good friend anymore, and is feeling really insecure about their relationship, and her friend just went through a massively traumatic event, which is something Brun can't handle very well, and as jheartney pointed out, Renee probably is aware of. Awww, she is just insecure and worried and trying to be a good friend and overcompensating.

~~blue5~~ · « **Reply #198 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 10:10 »

Quote from: Neko_Ali on 16 Jun 2016, 09:34

While you bring up a good point, and I think it's quite likely how Renee sees the situation. However, this whole point hinges on whether or not Brun can be trusted to make a value call as to Clinton's character, or indeed anyone's character. Renee's reaction is that no, Brun can not be trusted to make that decision on her own. That thought strips Brun's agency from her. It's basically saying "You can't be trusted how to judge people's character, someone else has to do it for you." And unless that is very true, it's an incredibly shitty thing to think of a friend, and it's a very controlling thing. Basically wanting to vet and new friends Brun makes, and automatically rejecting Clinton without ever having met him. At best this is a reaction to serious problems with people either in Renee's or Brun's past who have taking advantage of one of them. Or it's a sign of an abusive relationship where Renee has to have all the control... Which would ironically make Renee the kind of person she warns Brun to stay away from. Obviously, life is rarely one extreme or the other, and their relationship likely falls somewhere in the middle.

But what Renee is ignoring or doesn't want to see is that Clinton isn't just some random guy. Brun at first didn't articulate this well because she was still partly non-responsive from the stress of everything. But she's gone to bat for Clinton and shown how he has demonstrated at least apparently kindness and good will with no sign of trying to take advantage of Brun. But Renee has brushed off all of Brun's opinions and thoughts on the matter and basically swept the matter under the rug with a 'I'm right but I don't want to argue, so we'll just stop talking about it now' reasoning.

That is a very good way to bring across how i feel about the character. Which makes one wonder, what kind of employer she would be?

My theory of the "friendship" of Renee and Brun goes like this. Brun moved to the town and is a bit introverted and went to the bakery where she met Renee and a friendship developed. Brun is trusting and upon getting the job at the bar may have developed a relationship with someone that went not so well. Renee seemed reasonable but has a need to control, and while she may have had a desire to help Brun, her own possible negative experiences in the past clouds her judgment.
She is the "I told you so" type of person, possibly and seeds the self doubt in Brun's mind. Also, there could be the possibility that Renee likes Brun, but Brun doesn't feel the same, but doesn't want to hurt Renee's feelings. Or may not be aware of her feelings. Which is why she said the worst possible things about Clinton to not let Brun was to create a friendship with Clinton.

Just my theory anyways....

jheartney · « **Reply #199 on:** 16 Jun 2016, 10:12 »

We'll see if Renee ever warms up to Clinton. Or maybe we won't; unless Brun saved the soggy phone number, or has the presence of mind to go ask for him at COD, they might not meet again. Of course, the fact that we're still seeing Brun suggests she'll eventually have more dealings with the main cast.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

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Existentalism Continues

Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3241 - 3245 (13-17 June 2016) (Read 72421 times)

TheEvilDog