Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
elfly:
--- Quote from: chaospersonified on 04 Jul 2016, 11:55 ---
--- Quote from: elfly on 04 Jul 2016, 11:06 ---Total abstinence is kind of fucked up and probably leads to people relapsing in alcoholism over and over again
--- End quote ---
'Probably' being a key phrase, and 'kinda fucked up' is an opinion. I personally wouldn't exist if my mom hadn't gotten sober a few years before I was born. I can't, of course, say anything about my early years, but she's been sober for at least twenty, both my parents have. My dad went dry, too, just to show support.
--- End quote ---
With all due respect, this is not a good metric, cause any decision your mother or father had made would have ended up in you not existing, and possibly another pair of egg/sperm meeting and creating a different person, so ascribing any sort of special, dramatic significance to her alcohol consumption over which tv shows your mother watched, or which dress she chose to wear when she met your father. Any other decision would result in a different person from you existing.
My father also was what you'd define as an alcoholic, but nowadays he drinks occassionally; the important thing is not whether the way my father or mother drink alcohol is better than yours, but whether promoting that "alcoholics" cannot be around alcohol and have to quit completely is a reasonable position or not. It causes relapses and guilt and is definitely not a one size solution.
--- Quote from: themacnut on 04 Jul 2016, 12:17 ---Alcoholics by definition can't deal with alcohol like normal people. Alcohol is generally a minefield for those who can't handle it well, and they're really much better off avoiding it entirely. Just like most people are better off staying far away from a literal minefield, leaving it to people with specialized training and equipment. Even for those people, minefields are still dangerous and need to be handled with care.
--- End quote ---
"Alcoholics by definition" is ... not a really good definition. People with alcohol abuse problems can learn to drink moderately. You are only perpetuating a view promoted by AA for religious reasons, defining a group of people as "dangerous around alcohol" forever, regardless of what they do. This is not a healthy view.
--- Quote from: Neko_Ali on 04 Jul 2016, 15:26 ---The difference between addicts and non-addicts is the don't have 'just a drink'. Complete abstinence is often the only way they have to deal with their problem. Because they can never have 'just a drink' to relax, or reward. One becomes two, becomes a bottle, becomes sneaking around and lying about drinking. Because living life while impaired because you are always drunk or hung over and craving.
--- End quote ---
There are better treatments for addictions than just going cold turkey and keep total abstinence forever. But for whatever reasons, the AA brand of being branded an alcoholic forever and having to keep living in abstinence your whole life or be deemed a failure took hold of the american thought.
Gyrre:
--- Quote from: oddtail on 04 Jul 2016, 06:31 ---
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 04 Jul 2016, 05:54 ---Odd side bar: what regional accent do you all read Bubbles voice in?
For me it's sort of an even-toned Midwest cosmopolitan accent (think Dallas, Texas or Clevland, Ohio)
--- End quote ---
To me, most American accents kinda sound alike (except those from the Deep South and perhaps Chicago), but I suppose the accent I imagine her using would be Midwestern. From what I gather, the accent I think of as "typical, usual American" is close to Midwestern, and I imagine most English-speaking characters using it unless there's an indication they might have a strong regional accent. I might be wrong, though. Maybe the accent I'm thinking of is nowhere near the Midwest.
--- End quote ---
Born and raised in Kansas. It's Mid-Western. Though in some parts it's just "the city folk" that talk like that. Some big cities will still have quite a few residents with a bit of rural drawl, namely Oklahoma City and any big city in Missouri
Tova:
--- Quote from: jheartney on 04 Jul 2016, 08:21 ---
--- Quote from: brasca on 04 Jul 2016, 01:02 ---
There were never any consequences like that expressed for falling off the wagon the last time so why should this time be any different?
--- End quote ---
If there are no consequences, then Marten becomes part of Faye's addiction. If Faye is consistently relapsing, then things will get worse and worse. Remember the trip to the hospital? Expect more of that. Also expect Faye to become more and more irresponsible, and for her drinking to have bad effects on those around her, including Marten. Eventually the friendship will be destroyed by her addictive behavior. If he wants to avoid that, the time to put a stop to it is now.
--- End quote ---
Brasca never said "no consequences," just no consequences like that (i.e. being kicked out of her home). Neither did I say no consequences. Just that Marten won't kick her out unless Faye's behaviour gets a lot worse than what we've seen.
If Faye "consistently relapses" -- and I will remind you yet again that it's still only been once, and that doesn't count as consistently in the dictionary I have at hand -- if she does, then I am sure that there will be options available other than nothing (enabling) or kicking her out (I'm not a psychologist, but I imagine that being abandoned by her best friend won't make things better).
Morituri:
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 04 Jul 2016, 15:41 ---
Born and raised in Kansas. It's Mid-Western. Though in some parts it's just "the city folk" that talk like that. Some big cities will still have quite a few residents with a bit of rural drawl, namely Oklahoma City and any big city in Missouri
--- End quote ---
Yeah, TV stations used to recruit newscasters and stuff in Wichita KS, Kansas City MO, and Omaha NB because those particular accents sound "Neutral" to a most Americans. I'm originally from Kansas myself.
There are a bunch of little regionalisms all over depending on who the first settlers in the area were and how long ago they arrived. Usually though, so small that they're hard to notice. Most places in Kansas, the main difference between urban and rural was the rate of speech; the urbans want you to talk a lot faster so they can say the answer they've already got in their heads before they even hear what you have to say, and the rurals don't trust or take seriously anyone who speaks faster than they believe s/he can think. It has led to misunderstandings and tensions at times though most folk who go back and forth learn to 'mode-switch' as necessary.
chaospersonified:
Elfly, (removed by moderator), I say I would not exist because my parents were on the brink of divorce. Going sober saved the marriage. You are making literally the argument I made at 6 years old for why I would still exist if my parents hadn't met.
You say 'better.' I say 'other,' because some people cannot be around it and partake without it going further.
Also, guilt is not the basis of why AA works. AA works through support. If a group is telling someone they're 'lesser' because they relapsed, that is a shit group who doesn't understand what the organization is about. Any alcoholic could relapse. I have a friend who admitted recently through Facebook that they had, and she got nothing but support, not an inch of guilt-tripping. People shared stories about when THEY relapsed, to show solidarity, saying a relapse isn't the end of things.
Nobody calls someone a failure for relapse. That's not the way AA works.
I understand a distaste for the program. It's not perfect, so few things are. I do NOT understand whatever this campaign is that you're waging against a program that lots of people depend on and use to find help.
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