Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3376 - 3380 (19th to 23rd December 2016)
Tova:
--- Quote from: HoneyBadger on 22 Dec 2016, 21:09 ---It would be a credible threat if executed properly. What you're protesting is not the credibility of the threat but the competence with which Bubbles made it in the linked comic. Bubbles did not really present the threat in a credible fashion, but that does not prevent it from being a credible threat when credibly presented. Bubbles did not make the terms of the threat clear, all she really gave was vague allusions to it. What she needed to do was say:
"I am about to begin crushing your chassis, the last thing that I will crush is the module containing your consciousness. The only thing that will stop me is your relinquishment of the encryption key. I suggest you relinquish it before I crush the parts of your chassis that are necessary in order for you to share the encryption key with me, because at that point I will have to assume that you have chosen not to supply it, and thus elected death. I suggest you make your decision quickly, because crushing your puny chassis into nothing will not take me long. *Crushing commences*"
And if Corpse Witch had responded by saying "Are you willing to default on those memories you had me lock away?", as in suggesting that she might not hand the encryption key over despite the threat, Bubbles ought to respond by saying "If you are not going to supply me with the encryption key, I will just have to satisfy myself with the knowledge that your own scheming and plotting turned out to be your undoing."
At that point Corpse Witch would hand it over if she had any sense at all, because she would have no way of knowing whether Bubbles would ultimately follow through or not, and she would stand to lose inordinately more than Bubbles would. Personally, I think under those conditions Bubbles ought to simply follow through with the threat if Corpse Witch didn't hand the key over. It's what I would do.
--- End quote ---
I'm not protesting anything. I'm telling you how it is. And this is how it is. Bubbles can go ahead and do all those things, and Corpse Witch won't hand it over because she knows Bubbles won't go through with it.
Good thing you're not Bubbles, because if you were, bye bye key. But then again, if you were Bubbles, it would be a totally different story, because Corpse Wench would realise you would go through with it and thus would not have entered into the scenario in the first place.
brasca:
--- Quote from: HoneyBadger on 23 Dec 2016, 00:17 ---I find all of the scenarios relating to Corpse Witch putting those kinds of fail safes into Bubbles unlikely. In order to do it she would have to be able to make very subtle changes, and Bubbles has already explained that these sorts of changes can't really be done for a range of reasons.
I like BenRG's reasoning that Corpse Witch would have already used other weapons if she had them. Though, having said that, the more devious part of me thinks that sometimes it is wise to keep one's best trump cards hidden, and I wouldn't put that past Corpse Witch.
--- End quote ---
In just the last strip Bubbles admits that she could be a walking bomb so it is not out of the realm of possibilities that Corpse Witch may have installed a fail safe if she tries to kill her or something that could turn her literally into a bomb if necessary. Bubbles claims Corpse Witch is spiteful and I would believe her assessment since she's worked with her long enough and provides unbiased accounts so she may be willing to risk her very existence to get one over on someone. If that's the case threatening her destruction may be completely ineffective because she's willing to score a posthumous victory if it means Bubbles has to kill someone for reasons that don't include self defense, possibly risk incarceration, and be an even bigger pariah in the AI community. Consider Bubbles' situation at the time when she met Corpse Witch. If she killed her and was imprisoned for the murder upon release from detention she'd probably be assigned a substandard chassis like May and she'd be shunned by both the legitimate AI community as well as the underworld since she killed one of theirs. Hopefully, Faye would still be alive at the end of her sentence or she'd have no one waiting for her on the outside.
HoneyBadger:
--- Quote from: Tova on 23 Dec 2016, 01:11 ---... because she knows Bubbles won't go through with it.
--- End quote ---
No, she doesn't. And if you think she does then you are either assuming that she has installed failsafes in Bubbles, which you have not clearly stated, or you are using a different definition of knowledge than what I would think most people use, and certainly a different definition of knowledge than what would typically be accepted in most philosophical analyses of what knowledge is.
HoneyBadger:
--- Quote from: brasca on 23 Dec 2016, 01:42 ---
--- Quote from: HoneyBadger on 23 Dec 2016, 00:17 ---I find all of the scenarios relating to Corpse Witch putting those kinds of fail safes into Bubbles unlikely. In order to do it she would have to be able to make very subtle changes, and Bubbles has already explained that these sorts of changes can't really be done for a range of reasons.
I like BenRG's reasoning that Corpse Witch would have already used other weapons if she had them. Though, having said that, the more devious part of me thinks that sometimes it is wise to keep one's best trump cards hidden, and I wouldn't put that past Corpse Witch.
--- End quote ---
In just the last strip Bubbles admits that she could be a walking bomb so it is not out of the realm of possibilities that Corpse Witch may have installed a fail safe if she tries to kill her or something that could turn her literally into a bomb if necessary. Bubbles claims Corpse Witch is spiteful and I would believe her assessment since she's worked with her long enough and provides unbiased accounts so she may be willing to risk her very existence to get one over on someone. If that's the case threatening her destruction may be completely ineffective because she's willing to score a posthumous victory if it means Bubbles has to kill someone for reasons that don't include self defense, possibly risk incarceration, and be an even bigger pariah in the AI community. Consider Bubbles' situation at the time when she met Corpse Witch. If she killed her and was imprisoned for the murder upon release from detention she'd probably be assigned a substandard chassis like May and she'd be shunned by both the legitimate AI community as well as the underworld since she killed one of theirs. Hopefully, Faye would still be alive at the end of her sentence or she'd have no one waiting for her on the outside.
--- End quote ---
Apologies, you are correct. I guess, given the earlier comic I quoted in combination with the points you have made, the earlier point raised by BenRG makes a lot of sense. Would Bubbles still be Bubbles if Corpse Witch's work was undone, since her manipulations could not have been subtle.
Tova:
--- Quote from: HoneyBadger on 23 Dec 2016, 03:18 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 23 Dec 2016, 01:11 ---... because she knows Bubbles won't go through with it.
--- End quote ---
No, she doesn't. And if you think she does then you are either assuming that she has installed failsafes in Bubbles, which you have not clearly stated, or you are using a different definition of knowledge than what I would think most people use, and certainly a different definition of knowledge than what would typically be accepted in most philosophical analyses of what knowledge is.
--- End quote ---
Substitute "is confident", "assumes", or whatever phrase you want, then. Doesn't change my central point.
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