Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3411 to 3415 (6th to 10th February 2017)
A small perverse otter:
I'd like to discourage folks from arguing about Job. There are literally thousands of years of writing on the Book of Job. (Remember, most of the books of the Old Testament are attempts to render a vast oral tradition going back to the Bronze Age into text.) There is nothing we can say which hasn't been chewed on, digested, vomited back, or shat upon by people at least as smart as any of us.
HiFranc:
In normal times, I would have just viewed this sequence and "meh" and not thought much about it. It's a tired old trope and shows lack of imagination on the part of anyone who writes fiction.[1] However, given the current president of the US says that "torture works", I feel obligated to link to a few things:
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/astronaut-twins-a-human-pig-chimera-and-the-science-of-torture-1.3965903/torture-doesn-t-work-and-here-s-the-scientific-evidence-1.3965999
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2008/05/080530_mon_doc_wk23_taxi.shtml (why torture in fiction is relevant)
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/agnotology:-understanding-our-ignorance/8123452
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk2-ZXAWkfg
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind/when-good-people-turn-bad---philip-zimbardo-in/3249802
Ps.
I have also emailed Jeph.
[1] I write in my spare time and the only time I've written torture scenes is in expressing the fate of a poor innocent victim in a repressive regime.
Tova:
--- Quote from: haikupoet on 08 Feb 2017, 12:31 ---Then it's a type of DeM that is actually a legitimate plot device as opposed to a failure in writing, which is what the term usually implies. Jeph has already shown us at considerable length that a significant AI subculture exists in the QCverse. Now we're getting a look at one of its mythic components.
--- End quote ---
I do agree with your interest in the potential story line that has now opened up. Creepybot as a character is well realised and very well drawn, and I foresee many discussions on the morality or otherwise of their actions.
I don't want to get involved in a lengthy discussion about different types of deus ex machina, nor whether this particular one was a "failure in writing," a "legitimate plot device," or even a brilliant coup de grace, but I will admit my disappointment in the way the previous storyline is winding up.
I stated in a previous thread that I hoped that Station would not simply resolve the issue with a flick of the wrist, because that would be a deus ex machina. Let me see... ah, here we are.
--- Quote from: Tova on 20 Dec 2016, 19:06 ---I'm not a fan of the idea that Station could crack the encryption and thus solve the problem. If it's brute forced, then that would break my willing suspension of disbelief. If it's cracked via a backdoor, known weakness, or some other hand wave, then it's simply a deus ex machina.
They need to find a way to change the equation such that Corpse Witch wants to hand the key over more than she wants to destroy it or to retain Bubbles' service. In other words, they need leverage.
Detective Basilisk may be able to assist, but they'd have to consult her without Corpse Witch finding out, which may be a high risk strategy. Alternatively, Jeremy may know something.
They're not exactly racing against the clock, so they have time to gather information.
--- End quote ---
What we ended with was indeed more interesting because of the emergence of Creepybot, but as I said at the time, I really was hoping for a more interesting resolution, one involving Faye obtaining the necessary leverage. As cool as Creepybot is as a new character, the resolution of problems by omnipotent beings really is (for at least some of us) a bit of a letdown.
Please allow me to outline the kind of resolution that I was hoping for way back when I originally talked about this. I wasn't expecting exactly this, or even roughly this necessarily. But something with this flavour.
Faye, in desparation, approaches Detective Basilisk and indicates that she is now willing to assist, but she needs more information.
Basilisk, too, is desperate, and so she shares some information. Bubbles isn't the only one whose memory was erased - there are two other survivors from her squadron working at the rink under similar circumstances. Corpse Witch convinced them to have their memories erased to help with the trauma, but in reality they had memories that, when put together, indicated incriminating evidence regarding profiteering activities carried out by Corpse Witch. Activities that ultimately led to the destruction of the squad.
Only one other ex-officer held evidence, but he would never talk. Basilisk had tried and failed to convince him.
Faye heads off to find him. He refuses to talk to Faye at all at first, but finally swears Faye to secrecy and describes Corpse Witch's illegal and immoral activities in some detail. But he could never do anything about it. Corpse Witch was untouchable, had too many friends in very high places. He has evidence, but it would be possible to trace the evidence back to him.
Now enter Creepybot. They have been following goings-on and discuss how violations of the mind are despicable to them. Normally they wouldn't help but etc etc, you remember the drill. It will be no trouble for them to change the trail of evidence so that it points instead to one Major O'Keeffe, may her soul rest in peace.
This done, the evidence is handed over. Faye takes it back to Bubbles, and they formulate a plan...
Faye is accompanied by the two other former squad members who confront CW over what she's done. They are furious and intend to kill her for compromising the squad. CW locks herself into a secure room, but that only buys her time. Faye then takes the opportunity to suggest that, perhaps if the memories of all three are returned, Bubbles might convince the others to show mercy. CW agrees.
Faye has recruited a skilled technician. CW is to hand over the key so that the techie can carry out the operation. By no means is CW allowed to interfere.
After the operation, Bubbles and her squadmates are overcome with the memories. CW takes this opportunity to forcefully take the evidence from Faye and attempts to flee.
Unfortunately for CW, Basilisk is waiting outside, and this time with backup. They have the evidence in hand, which Faye had handed over previously. The "evidence" Faye was holding was merely a decoy.
As an epilogue, Creepybot decides to help Bubbles and her friends, via means of the virtual environment that we already saw, where the monster that was shot are a representation of the trauma, but the memories remain intact.
/braindump
More satisfying resolution, and we still get Creepybot out of it as an emerging and disturbingly powerful entity.
Now I'd better get some real work done.
OldGoat:
--- Quote from: WareWolf on 08 Feb 2017, 13:25 ---I hadn't made the Beatrice connection, but it opens up all sorts of fascinating possibilities. Perhaps the Squid is a child. Or the emotional equivalent of a teenager. Either way, an immature being with an highly developed sense of Their own power, but an underdeveloped sense of empathy, since Beatrice is one of Their role models and John's too distracted to be of much use. Now, however, They've met others-Bubbles, Faye, Hanners, Emily--who "inspire" Them. What's going on is an internal contest for the soul of the Squid.
Perhaps the Squid recalls some trauma to Their OWN psyche brought on by someone (Beatrice perhaps?) messing around with Their mind and that's why They're so fanatical about punishing others who have done the same.
--- End quote ---
I'm seeing the AI Hive Mind as an unexpected phenomenon, something John didn't foresee happening (although he no doubt became aware of it at some point). While Spooky wasn't parented by the Ellicott-Chathams, they do bear the stamp of their personalities and intellects.
John's in his what? Mid-50s? Even assuming he was a wunderkind who'd completed his masters at an age when most people are hitting middle school, AIs have only been around for maybe 40 years. (The remarkably rapid "market penetration" making them ubiquitous in society is no doubt Bea's doing.)
BTW - Jeph has a demonstrated interest in issues of personality, sexuality, and gender - that's why he wrote Claire. I reckon he's has very deliberately made Spook androgynous. This will never be explained.
St.Clair:
--- Quote from: WareWolf on 08 Feb 2017, 10:03 ---
--- Quote from: haikupoet on 08 Feb 2017, 06:32 ---Am I alone in not seeing this as a straight-up deus ex machina? It seems to me that we've seen the introduction of, if not a major character exactly, a major undercurrent in the QCverse that will likely come into future storylines with the AIs. We may never see Lady Tentacles again in their current form, but that doesn't mean this is the last time they'll be a factor in the story. I mean, if $DIVINITY came down specifically to do you a favor, the story would likely not end there.
--- End quote ---
You're definitely not alone. A DEM solves everyone's problems and ends the plot. The Squid and its avatar Spookybot open up entirely new plots and problems.
--- End quote ---
This, as I previously noted, is the difference between divine intervention and the devil offering to do you a 'favor'.
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