Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE
Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
dexeron:
So many thoughts:
1. Look at Alice's hand over her eye. I'm calling it now; she's TOTALLY popping a Pate eye in there right now to replace her old one.
2. So the Praeses are alien after all? Why do I get a distinctly "Lavos" feeling from all of this?
3. So were the people in the... um... simulations real humans taken from the planet during the Blink (or perhaps their descendants) or are they completely "original" people created by the Praeses based on "data" from observing the planet below?
4. Did the arrival of the Praeses trigger the war, or did they arrive at/after its conclusion? Did their arrival spark a philosophical debate as to existence itself that led to war over which direction humankind would go, or were they perceived as invaders (or WERE they invaders) who had to be fought?
5. If Gavia and Ardent's simulation was based on a version of Earth without resource scarcity, are there other, darker, simulations, ones where everyone's lives are a living hell of endless, brutal Hobbseian conflict?
6. If the people in the simulations were "created" by the Praeses after all, how can we know that Gavia and Ardent even existed before they appeared in Alice's town? How can we know that their memories are even real, and that either of them is any more than a few weeks old at this point?
7. Is this entire story itself taking place inside a Praeses simulation?
8. It's pretty clear that there's a third party at play here, and I'm guessing Alice has figured it out and is about to reveal who that is.
FunkyTuba:
No particular order/ sorry if I repeat someone's point:
Jeph and Randall do know each other, have for quite a while
Not all black holes are created equal, their mass can vary by many orders of magnitude. Sedna is probably quantum-entangled to a black hole with maybe 10 times the mass of our sun, Alice 103, Church 105. That would explain the varying strength. I would also guess that they were originally human, which would account for their varying capabilities. Sedna=tinkerer, Church=grunt, Alice=command
Alice had to kill Pate to de-link Church's need to serve a master. From the magma-encasement scene, it looks like Church was trying to indenture himself to Alice after whoever was previously holding his leash was defeated, which she was having none of. When he recovers from the arm-sword injury, rather than being unleashed, he will have a desperate need for a new leader and will choose the dominant party. He probably won't choose Alice again, even though she defeated his master(again). Maybe the Praeses? Maybe Sedna since she defeated him?
Re:windmills, Alice has had plenty of time to redevelop new technologies if she wanted to, not to mention quantum-entangling them from thin entropy. Or maybe Sedna dug them up.
QC is one of the simulations running in one of the Praeses. For that matter so are we.
jwhouk:
I would contend there is at least one fictional character who is in the midst of his own personal battle over whether or not he truly wishes to "live forever." Unfortunately, we have to wait until the Christmas Special to find out what happens.
brasca:
--- Quote from: RSDeuce on 12 Jul 2017, 12:57 ---
--- Quote from: JimC on 12 Jul 2017, 12:47 ---
--- Quote from: brasca on 12 Jul 2017, 11:39 --- If that's the case then why did she suspect the Praeses were attempting to conquer Earth?
--- End quote ---
You don't think you'd find a bunch of mysterious space aliens turning up, settling themselves in orbit and abducting a sizable perecntage of earth's population mildly suspicious?
--- End quote ---
Well, in that case I would say they have "Conquered", not so much are wanting to.
I am still a little perplexed by the core concept of Alice assuming that the Prases have an agenda (going way back in the comic.)
If they sent Ardent, why (at all) would they have sent him to her town. She has no capability of knowing what is going on even a few day's travel away. Although Sedna and her know each other they clearly had no ability to communicate, even in an emergency. Even if every settlement has a super-soldier care-taker, they obviously have no ability to coordinate on a planetary scale.
Unless there are lots of Ardent's on the planet (off camera) and Laridia (or the Prases she represents) is lying I don't see how they are anything except for being used here.
--- End quote ---
I don't think I would call that abduction JimC since there's a lot we don't know about what happened during the Blink. Considering that the Praeses took half of the survivors off a resource scarce planet meant there was more for the people that remained behind. That probably helped a lot with the postwar stability and they were actually doing a favor for Alice.
And that right there RSDeuce is why this whole scheme is so suspicious. Out of all the places on Earth Ardent was sent to was the village protected by Alice. Whoever did it could've sent him to Pate's city or the other side of the world. By the time she figured out what was up it would be too late to stop it especially with Church guarding the operation. I still think this whole scheme was to lure her away from Earth, but I don't know if the Praeses are behind it. Laridia acknowledged the scarcity problem with Earth so it seems doubtful they would want to colonize it. Life as the space dwellers know it is too good to venture out unless you're like Ardent. Most people are probably like Gavia and want nothing to do with the planet they orbit so the Praeses would be hard pressed to find willing colonists. Perhaps Alice's paranoia has convinced her that Earth is more desirable than it really is.
--- Quote from: JimC on 12 Jul 2017, 11:37 ---
--- Quote from: Method of Madness on 12 Jul 2017, 11:06 ---
--- Quote from: TheEvilDog on 11 Jul 2017, 09:04 ---After all, who really wants to live forever?
--- End quote ---
...me? Lots of people? I genuinely don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want to.
--- End quote ---
You will when you get older. Swift's Struldbrugs are a very real curse. Multiple lifetimes worth of joys also means multiple lifetimes worth of regrets.
--- End quote ---
That and if you have no other immortal friends it would get lonely very quickly. Friendship wouldn't be a lasting thing and even if you could have children watching generations of offspring eventually die would be depressing too. The only other person like Alice is Sedna and they don't get along too well.
RSDeuce:
--- Quote from: brasca on 12 Jul 2017, 16:20 ---I don't think I would call that abduction JimC since there's a lot we don't know about what happened during the Blink. Considering that the Praeses took half of the survivors off a resource scarce planet meant there was more for the people that remained behind. That probably helped a lot with the postwar stability and they were actually doing a favor for Alice.
And that right there RSDeuce is why this whole scheme is so suspicious. Out of all the places on Earth Ardent was sent to was the village protected by Alice. Whoever did it could've sent him to Pate's city or the other side of the world. By the time she figured out what was up it would be too late to stop it especially with Church guarding the operation. I still think this whole scheme was to lure her away from Earth, but I don't know if the Praeses are behind it. Laridia acknowledged the scarcity problem with Earth so it seems doubtful they would want to colonize it. Life as the space dwellers know it is too good to venture out unless you're like Ardent. Most people are probably like Gavia and want nothing to do with the planet they orbit so the Praeses would be hard pressed to find willing colonists. Perhaps Alice's paranoia has convinced her that Earth is more desirable than it really is.
--- End quote ---
I actually really like the 'lure her from Earth" angle.
Sedna is "weak", and presumably the most common type.
Church is more powerful, but must 'serve' and can be controlled.
Either Alice severed a need to serve a person, or maybe she is simply the most free-willed or most dangerous of her kind and the (Praeses, baddies, whoever) wanted her off-planet, or maybe just out of town for a bit.
Maybe that particular village is under her protectorship not because she likes it there, but because there is something there (or in her protection) that is very, very important.
Why would that odd beast of a NightWalker happen to be in that particular forest all of the time? Earth is big. Wouldn't it have roamed?
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