Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3516 to 3520 (3rd to 7th July 2017)
Case:
--- Quote from: Tova on 09 Jul 2017, 04:38 ---"Toxic masculinity," on the other hand, does not explain why. It's a very broad umbrella term describing all kinds of undesirable male behaviours, including the ones above and many many others. As such, it doesn't really add anything to the discussion except to perhaps ostracise anyone who might mistake the expression for implying that masculinity is inherently "toxic."
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I once suffered the same confuzzlement.
Then I googled it.
My 2 cents: Neko's hit it on the head - there's many possible masculinities (actually, there's as many as there's specimens of menfolk, whatwith us being bona fide human beings), and there's one widespread stereotype being drilled into every male's head that turns out to be poison for us XY-chromosome bearers, and via the infected, hurtful for the rest. That this stereotypical behaviour encompasses many aspects means it is the explanation for several different types of bullshit. Don't see any logical problems here (And if we're tired of hearing it from wimminfolk then mayhap we should start having a look at this shit & taking care of it ourselves ... but don't let them hear that [SecretHandshake]).
(Still find it annoying to have a running commentary to my interactions, no matter if it's found 'cute' or not. It's a bit voyeuristic to my taste. No biggy, though)
Edit: Come to think of it, take 'XY-chromosome' as a placeholder-term.
MrNumbers:
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 08 Jul 2017, 08:28 ---
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 08 Jul 2017, 02:39 ---In this forum, we try to show the same respect to the fictional characters as we do to real people. It's a form of practice for real life, perhaps, but more importantly it's also true that real people can be hurt by the treatment of fictional people that they identify with in some manner.
--- End quote ---
People here have identified very strongly with the characters.
Another issue, which might make more sense to a writer, is that these are somebody else's characters.
--- End quote ---
I'm going to say straight up this isn't an argument, I'm not disagreeing, and I acknowledge the rules and culture of this forum. With that out of the way, I want to talk about this for the sole reason I've never heard this argument before, I've not encountered this mindset, and I genuinely do not understand it.
1) Is it not accepted that one can identify with a character very strongly while still acknowledging one is not the character, and others may have different interpretations of the character that are not one's own? I find the notion of taking personal offense or discomfort to this... bizarre?
2) They are fictitious characters, not real people. Treating them like real people is... They're constructs. They're fabrications. They're tools to explore ideas, like interpersonal relationships. To say to me to treat them like real people, is like telling me to be gentle with a hammer. Or less violent with a saw. While I understand, superficially, that the actions themselves can be construed negatively, it seems to go against the purpose/function of the tool.
3) Other persons' character... Actually ties neatly to 1) and 2) for me. When someone writes my characters, they're not writing my character, they're writing their interpretation of the character. It's a response in a conversation to an idea I've put forth. Hell, I put forward the idea of music remixes as a similar practice in another medium. Fanfiction in general and shipping in specific isn't a malicious act, or plagiarism; It's someone resonating with an idea enough they want to personally explore it and extrapolate it from their perspective. And that's pretty cool, in my opinion.
That's what it comes down to for me. The idea of not wanting to treat characters as characters, as literary tools, to explore as ideas and explore ideas with, because it might offend someone who identifies with them -- when identifying with a character is the point of that character being an effective tool -- is utterly antithetical to my core understanding of fiction as a concept.
Case:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzmxUXvE3m4
Drunken Hamster:
--- Quote from: Case on 09 Jul 2017, 04:08 ---
--- Quote from: Drunken Hamster on 08 Jul 2017, 04:54 ---
--- Quote from: Neko_Ali on 07 Jul 2017, 15:19 ---No. Toxic masculinity is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Viewing accidental flirting or paying a sincere compliment being seen as a sign of being gay and therefore a bad thing is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Fragile egos and fear of being ostracized are why guys don't talk to each other like that. Two girls thinking they were cute and having a little chuckle is not the reason.
--- End quote ---
"Toxic Masculinity"
Try Toxic SJW. Oh, wait. You already have.
--- End quote ---
Profound and original! Can I have an autograph?
--- End quote ---
I would, but, unfortunately, autograph signings are between 2 and 4 every other Thursday.
And this Thursday is a skip week. Lol.
;P
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
JimC:
--- Quote from: MrNumbers on 09 Jul 2017, 05:32 ---...utterly antithetical to my core understanding of fiction as a concept.
--- End quote ---
Maybe so, but clearly not antithetical to other folk's understanding.
It seems to be a general principle/considered good manners amongst writers that you don't steal other folks characters and put them in situations the originator hadn't envisaged *unless* there is specific permission. I find that very easy to understand. What I find less easy to understand is people thinking that because they call themselves fans they, as amateur writers, are automatically given a licence that professional writers wouldn't have. To me that's wrong. If its bad manners to take other folks characters and use them then its bad manners whether you're a pro or a fan.
In this particular case the creator has made it very clear that he objects to having his characters taken and used to construct relationship scenarios. To my mind its his privilege to object, and I have no problem whatsoever with it, and its entirely correct that this forum should follow his wishes.
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