Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3516 to 3520 (3rd to 7th July 2017)
Is it cold in here?:
I would say it's rude to J.K. Rowling to force Harry and Draco into bed together, and don't see it as a form of literary exploration either, being instead simply prurient.
Some of the shipping that's happened here was just that childish and just that creepy. That was a long time ago but is what comes to mind for the moderation team.
MrNumbers, am I getting you right, that what you're describing as shipping is thoughtful instead? Like exploring how an organic and a synthetic could have a romantic relationship instead of writing Faye/Bubbles porn?
MrNumbers:
--- Quote ---MrNumbers, am I getting you right, that what you're describing as shipping is thoughtful instead? Like exploring how an organic and a synthetic could have a romantic relationship instead of writing Faye/Bubbles porn?
--- End quote ---
I mean, yeah. Yep, that's how I take it, that's how I've been interpreting it, and that's what I mean. The former is what I take to be shipping, literally 'relationshipping', the latter I would classify as 'slashfic' because... well, as you did there, "/".
--- Quote ---We had people coming to the forum spilling bile about this, and transgender folk who came to the forum (because they wanted to thank Jeph for handling it so well) told us that they were upset when the character Claire was abused by other forum members for being just like they were.
--- End quote ---
Ah! I now understand the problem. Excellent.
Here it's not a problem of people identifying with the character, so much as others criticizing traits they identify with personally. That's far more understandable! Yes, when people are using it to deride a character you identify with, it's hard not to take it as a personal attack, because they're attacking an aspect of yourself that you share.
That's completely straightforward to me, and not something I was getting from the initial posts and arguments. I disagree with this being tied to the original conclusions I was responding to, but now I at least appreciate where you're coming from, which is what I was missing before.
--- Quote ---Listen to the people who say it is a problem to them rather than saying it isn't one to you.
--- End quote ---
I am listening. I was not understanding, and trying to outline where I wasn't understanding. I appreciate these things being explained so that I can follow the spirit of these issues, as well as just the letter of them.
And @JimC, what @BenRG said, practically verbatim.
--- Quote ---In this particular case the creator has made it very clear that he objects to having his characters taken and used to construct relationship scenarios. To my mind its his privilege to object, and I have no problem whatsoever with it, and its entirely correct that this forum should follow his wishes.
--- End quote ---
I was not aware of this. I strongly object to this, purely personally, on both legal and ethical grounds, but I was not aware of this and I'll take that into consideration.
My objection being "I will abide by your decision, but I disagree with you making this decision" and not "I will ignore this has been said" to be as clear as possible.
St.Clair:
--- Quote from: MrNumbers on 08 Jul 2017, 01:50 ---It, by definition, doesn't hurt anyone. Perhaps you disagree with the mindset of someone who enjoys the exercise? Sure. But it's damn fun for those of us who do like it, a free and infinite vice unlikely to harm mind, body or soul, mine or yours.
--- End quote ---
In that sense, it is much like masturbation (an activity which, in my experience, it often accompanies and provides material for). As such, while I agree with your assessment as to the (lack of) actual harm, I would still tend to prefer that people do it in private, where I don't have to see it.
Fandom is, IMO, in general, inordinately concerned with (getting off to) who's getting off with whom, which I find both offputting and tiresome. (For what it's worth, I feel almost exactly the same about another common fannish activity, the speculation over "who would beat who in a fight", including the comparison to masturbation.)
Neko_Ali:
--- Quote from: Case on 09 Jul 2017, 05:14 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 09 Jul 2017, 04:38 ---"Toxic masculinity," on the other hand, does not explain why. It's a very broad umbrella term describing all kinds of undesirable male behaviours, including the ones above and many many others. As such, it doesn't really add anything to the discussion except to perhaps ostracise anyone who might mistake the expression for implying that masculinity is inherently "toxic."
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I once suffered the same confuzzlement.
Then I googled it.
My 2 cents: Neko's hit it on the head - there's many possible masculinities (actually, there's as many as there's specimens of menfolk, whatwith us being bona fide human beings), and there's one widespread stereotype being drilled into every male's head that turns out to be poison for us XY-chromosome bearers, and via the infected, hurtful for the rest. That this stereotypical behaviour encompasses many aspects means it is the explanation for several different types of bullshit. Don't see any logical problems here (And if we're tired of hearing it from wimminfolk then mayhap we should start having a look at this shit & taking care of it ourselves ... but don't let them hear that [SecretHandshake]).
(Still find it annoying to have a running commentary to my interactions, no matter if it's found 'cute' or not. It's a bit voyeuristic to my taste. No biggy, though)
Edit: Come to think of it, take 'XY-chromosome' as a placeholder-term.
--- End quote ---
The term toxic masculinity does have a specific meaning. Which is behaviors that are taught and propagated that men must behave in certain ways to be seen as 'real men', or otherwise ostracized. It has many facets, one of which being that two men talking like Clinton and Elliott were in the comic is a sign that they are not manly enough and probably gay, which is not appropriate. This term is not to call out all masculinity as toxic, but rather the behavior of considering there to be only one true way to be a man is inherently sexist and harmful, both towards men who do not live up to the standard, and those who do.
I apologize if I was not clear in my post, and to any hurt or confusion I may have caused to anyone. That certainly wasn't my intention. Though I do stand by the point I was trying to make. Renee and Claire joking was not why 'guys don't act like that'. It's because being thought of as gay is considered inferior according to the terms and reasoning I laid out above. They did come close to that point, but there was one difference, that I think is telling. They weren't mocking or insulting the guys for their behavior. They thought they were being cute for being open enough to talk about their feelings, which could be seen by some as flirtatious in some ways with the way they were talking. Only filtered though the toxic mindset is that seen as a negative thing.
Two guys should be able to talk about that without anyone a) thinking they are gay or b) thinking there was anything wrong with it. But because of the culture of sexism, this sort of behavior is looked down on and insulted, leading to this toxic view that to be a man means not having emotions or conversations like that.
Case:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 09 Jul 2017, 09:08 ---Listen to the people who say it is a problem to them rather than saying it isn't one to you.
--- End quote ---
You know, that sounds like a reasonable, balanced and fair approach ...
... to discussions in the WCDT.
You MONSTER! :x
(click to show/hide);)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version