Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
Reaver:
--- Quote from: Shjade on 15 Aug 2017, 20:43 ---
--- Quote from: brasca on 15 Aug 2017, 20:30 ---
--- Quote from: Shjade on 15 Aug 2017, 15:16 ---Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.
--- End quote ---
How do you know this?
--- End quote ---
If you're going to go hypothetical on fiction that could have happened off-page, how do you know May hasn't said anything like this to Hannelore? :roll:
What I know is what we've seen and what we haven't seen. We haven't seen Hannelore show up to remind May about how rich she is while May's at work, and no one's said she did it off-page, so until we hear otherwise, it hasn't happened.
Regarding the mess of posts quoting me above: I'll reiterate that May's still a pretty crappy person to be around, and I probably wouldn't consider her a friend myself. That doesn't make her reaction wrong or unjustified. As ChipNoir pointed out, it wasn't even extreme: Winslow was acting like access to life-changing resources is just casual whimsy in front of someone who struggles just to scrape by with basic life needs. That is, itself, pretty rude, and getting a rough response should come as no surprise.
To put it another way (bold added for emphasis):
--- Quote from: Reaver on 15 Aug 2017, 20:14 ---Winslow didn't do that, he walked up to someone he thought was a friend, and basically went "Look! I got a new body! I'm just like you guys now!"
--- End quote ---
Having someone with vastly greater opportunities than you drop by to act like you're the same because they just one day decided to do something you've spent years struggling to do is...insulting, to put it mildly. Even if it's not intentional, it trivializes what you had to do to reach the same goal they just met in an afternoon.
--- End quote ---
I don't think May was the character to have this situation with then, because honestly she's struggling due to her own fault, and has clearly been an independent being for a while.
Winslow's been a glorified pet that got borrowed and used to watch videos, and has been left alone for long periods of time.
The message has gotten smudged by possibly not being represented by the best character options.
Shjade:
--- Quote from: Reaver on 15 Aug 2017, 21:03 ---I don't think May was the character to have this situation with then, because honestly she's struggling due to her own fault, and has clearly been an independent being for a while.
--- End quote ---
People keep making this argument. I don't know why.
Yeah, she made mistakes and they put her in a bad position in the present. So? Winslow's where he is because he only made pure, karmically-positive choices in his life and somehow deserves what he has more than her, rather than just being luckier?
That's not how it works.
ChipNoir:
--- Quote from: Reaver on 15 Aug 2017, 21:03 ---
--- Quote from: Shjade on 15 Aug 2017, 20:43 ---
--- Quote from: brasca on 15 Aug 2017, 20:30 ---
--- Quote from: Shjade on 15 Aug 2017, 15:16 ---Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.
--- End quote ---
How do you know this?
--- End quote ---
If you're going to go hypothetical on fiction that could have happened off-page, how do you know May hasn't said anything like this to Hannelore? :roll:
What I know is what we've seen and what we haven't seen. We haven't seen Hannelore show up to remind May about how rich she is while May's at work, and no one's said she did it off-page, so until we hear otherwise, it hasn't happened.
Regarding the mess of posts quoting me above: I'll reiterate that May's still a pretty crappy person to be around, and I probably wouldn't consider her a friend myself. That doesn't make her reaction wrong or unjustified. As ChipNoir pointed out, it wasn't even extreme: Winslow was acting like access to life-changing resources is just casual whimsy in front of someone who struggles just to scrape by with basic life needs. That is, itself, pretty rude, and getting a rough response should come as no surprise.
To put it another way (bold added for emphasis):
--- Quote from: Reaver on 15 Aug 2017, 20:14 ---Winslow didn't do that, he walked up to someone he thought was a friend, and basically went "Look! I got a new body! I'm just like you guys now!"
--- End quote ---
Having someone with vastly greater opportunities than you drop by to act like you're the same because they just one day decided to do something you've spent years struggling to do is...insulting, to put it mildly. Even if it's not intentional, it trivializes what you had to do to reach the same goal they just met in an afternoon.
--- End quote ---
I don't think May was the character to have this situation with then, because honestly she's struggling due to her own fault, and has clearly been an independent being for a while.
Winslow's been a glorified pet that got borrowed and used to watch videos, and has been left alone for long periods of time.
The message has gotten smudged by possibly not being represented by the best character options.
--- End quote ---
Or y'know, the message is that this shit happens. As I've said for myself, I've BEEN in Winslow's shoes, stumbling head first into a situation with the best of intentions, getting royally ripped a new one, and feeling pretty damned hurt and resentful. But the true message is there are still people out there like Bubbles to point us in the right direction.
May is not Winslow's friend. Lets be clear on that. I don't think I've ever even seen them in the same comic panel before now, and if so, I certainly don't remember it. Now with that said, I really do hope Momo rips her a new one for this. I don't believe she should get off scott free for this. She was shitty. Winslow was...Winslow.
But now that important factor is Winslow has Bubbles to guru him through a lot of tough choices that she's probably had to make herself.
Milayna:
--- Quote from: zisraelsen on 15 Aug 2017, 16:13 ---So, how could Winslow have approached the situation better? He obviously needed to address the new chassis at some point, which is something Momo never needed to do (she was already in her new chassis when May was introduced). Was he tactless in his choice of words, or in his timing, with her at work? Would this tension have existed no matter how he tried to approach it, just by virtue of how easily he acquired something May is so frustrated to be denied?
--- End quote ---
Given the context, any approach he did would likely have created tension. Any interaction at all would, though that could be mitigated by having her approach him about it. For instance, at a party at Marten's place. Given his excitement, such a passive approach is unlikely (and also opens up its own can of worms - "how long ago did you change? Why didn't you tell me).
Had it been me: I'd pick up a peace offering, first. Nothing expensive, obviously, and nothing related to body maintenance or modification just as obviously, but something cheap and that she'd appreciate like the newest issue of Prolapse Monthly. By the look of it, he entered pretty abruptly: A better approach would have been opening the door firmly but smoothly, making sure the bell didn't jingle too loud; and a casual approach - not sweeping in, but not sneaking; make sure he gets her attention, but not jarringly. Watch the impact of his footsteps, and greet her before approaching the counter. The goal is to be nonthreatening, to make it plain that the space is entirely under control (having such a woobie figure certainly gives Winslow extra points here).
Assuming AI's recognize each other by sight and not a broadcasted hash or something, he'd have to address the elephant in the room quickly, because he looks like a stranger. "May! Hi! It's Winslow!" is a fine start, make sure he's holding the peace offering visibly but not in front of his chest or above, or outward. Watch what she responds to: If she says "what?" and eyes the magazine, start on that first: "I was on my way to see you and saw this and figured you didn't have it yet since it's new so I got it." and hand it over. Continue to talk about that if she continues to focus on that. If she responds to his body first, Then put the magazine on the counter, visible but off to the side, and talk about the body.
Once on the new body subject, however they get there, that's where he needs to be REALLY careful. His words in the comic, third panel, were careless (not that I can blame him, really, but I'm going through a hypothetical here). I'm not sure what would be best, but something along the lines of: "Oh! yeah, I got a new body - I'm letting everyone know now so that they can recognize me! I'll be able to pull my own weight now, like you and Momo and Miss Bubbles! So, yknow, if there's something I can help with now, let me know!" Of course, watch her body language, expressions and responses and adjust his own tone, body language and words based on what's hitting and what's not.* If she hasn't rejected him, then the conversation can probably move on to the magazine, or maybe after a bit more chatter about the new body.
The goal of the words I chose is to make sure that May doesn't feel singled out, appreciate her for her work, and make clear that he's rectifying a deficiency that was beneath her, not being a rich kid playing with a new toy above her. His attempt in-comic at citing the other humanoid got obliterated by the "I decided to be a humanoid" part. Given the context and her disposition, I can't guarentee that this would have avoided an incident, but as someone who's learned to be adept at keeping the peace, I have a fair degree of confidence.
*Of course, this is limited by the fact that I don't know to what extent AI chassis, especially reform chassis, or capable of emoting, and to what extent these emotes are relevent in AI communication.
BenRG:
Here's a thought that suddenly occurred to me: I think that today's strip is set at the front door of the apartment. I'm wondering if Winslow was running home to hide (only to realise that Hannelore hadn't given him a key yet). I'm thinking that reminds us that, in psychological and emotional terms, he is very young; perhaps even 'younger' than Sam. His response to Bubbles just reinforces that perspective; he's a barely-teen reacting to a trusted adult.
It's nice that Bubbles had time to help (and I had suspected from the start of this part of the arc that Jeph would use the character in this way). Because of where we are, I won't get into the implicit political message and instead focus on to the real meaning to me: You can't control how other people feel about you because feelings aren't always based on rational responses; some people will never be able to see beyond their own hurt or resentment and it's futile (and possibly destructive) to try to make them do so. What you and and must control is the good that you choose to do.
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