Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3551 to 3555 (21st to 25th August 2017)
castn:
--- Quote from: Emperor Norton on 23 Aug 2017, 17:11 ---Of course it doesn't! But I also don't subscribe to a mindset that "if they aren't my friends it doesn't matter if I hurt their feelings". Which is a dangerous mindset. That is the mindset that says that your bubble matters, the other doesn't.
And that belief that my actions should be designed around the idea that everyone's feelings matter is WHY I care about discrimination.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't trying to say that other people outside of your friend group don't matter. I meant that we treat acquaintances/strangers one way, and we treat our friends in another way. That's not a rude-or-polite situation. It could be a polite-or-even-more-polite situation. Wanting to be someone's friend gives you an incentive to treat them better than you usually would, or to better accord yourself to the way they act. The problem with May is that her stranger-default is rude as hell.
Hurt feelings matter but systematic mistreatment matters even more. Winslow prioritised the latter instead of getting mad at May for the former, which is a much more reasonable mindset than most people exhibit irl.
Emperor Norton:
Look, I'm not saying I'm perfect. I fail quite a lot. I can get hot headed. I can snap at people, friend, family, stranger.
The truth is though, that when I do, it IS a failure on my part. It isn't morally OK to treat any well meaning person rudely. I owe them an apology whether they are a friend or not.
Either I was justified in being rude (for instance, the dude is a nazi, in which case I'm very justified) and I do not owe anyone an apology, or I wasn't justified, and I should apologize.
If I do anything different I'm not apologizing for doing something wrong, I'm apologizing because I want them to be my friend. It is an apology designed to get something from them.
I can be dead right about what I said, and still be an asshole. And if I'm being an asshole to someone who isn't trying to hurt me, I'm wrong.
Case:
--- Quote from: castn on 23 Aug 2017, 17:38 ---Hurt feelings matter but systematic mistreatment matters even more. Winslow prioritised the latter instead of getting mad at May for the former, which is a much more reasonable mindset than most people exhibit irl.
--- End quote ---
Mixing interpersonal interactions on those on societal scales here, while implicitly treating them as if they were the same, or even of the same order.
What you describe is tribalism. It's been our default setting for tens of thousands of years. There's persuasive theories about how it is at the heart of the very discrimination you abhor. And it has very little to do with privilege theory.
castn:
--- Quote from: Emperor Norton on 23 Aug 2017, 17:47 ---Look, I'm not saying I'm perfect. I fail quite a lot. I can get hot headed. I can snap at people, friend, family, stranger.
The truth is though, that when I do, it IS a failure on my part. It isn't morally OK to treat any well meaning person rudely. I owe them an apology whether they are a friend or not.
Either I was justified in being rude (for instance, the dude is a nazi, in which case I'm very justified) and I do not owe anyone an apology, or I wasn't justified, and I should apologize.
If I do anything different I'm not apologizing for doing something wrong, I'm apologizing because I want them to be my friend. It is an apology designed to get something from them.
I can be dead right about what I said, and still be an asshole. And if I'm being an asshole to someone who isn't trying to hurt me, I'm wrong.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I think I get what you mean. It's an upstanding way to behave but May is just not an upstanding character. And I'm not inclined to judge her for being an asshole now because I wasn't inclined to do so when she was an asshole in the past.
Like.... I don't like framing rudeness in terms or what's right and wrong, because I think that what is or isn't rude depends so much on personal/cultural context. So if I sound harsh about social niceties it's mostly because I kind of see it a side-issue compared to the topic of privilege. I would find it easier to forgive May's rudeness than to forgive someone who reacted badly to having their privilege called out.
But yeah, apologising to someone to keep their friendship doesn't seem especially bad to me? It just seems to make sense, sacrificing pride or whatever because you really like someone and want to keep them in your lives. That could just be me, though, maybe I have a fucked up perspective on relationships lmao.
castn:
--- Quote from: Case on 23 Aug 2017, 17:56 ---
--- Quote from: castn on 23 Aug 2017, 17:38 ---Hurt feelings matter but systematic mistreatment matters even more. Winslow prioritised the latter instead of getting mad at May for the former, which is a much more reasonable mindset than most people exhibit irl.
--- End quote ---
Mixing interpersonal interactions on those on societal scales here, while implicitly treating them as if they were the same, or even of the same order.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't mixing, I was differentiating. As in... hurt feelings and systematic mistreatment are on two waaaay different levels, it seemed ridiculous to me that people were mad at May when the subject of privilege was more paramount! But I'm sorry if I confused those two. I realise it's possible to condemn May on an interpersonal level, but feel vindicated by her outrage in terms of societal privilege.
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