Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
(CW/TW: Abuse) WCDT strips 3731-3735 (30th April to 4th May 2018)
awgiedawgie:
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 03 May 2018, 21:41 ---Faye treated Momo like an object twice that I can think of. There was tossing her in the air like a toy, and there was looking up her skirt.
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To be fair, I didn't really see that as having anything to do with Momo being an AI, per se. Faye treated almost everyone with little regard for how she would feel if the situation were reversed. Even Raven called her on it.
Is it cold in here?:
Well taken point but I'd draw a distinction between being mean to someone and objectifying them.
For example, Faye ridiculed Marigold but never tried to look up her skirt.
Dandi Andi:
--- Quote from: chris73 on 03 May 2018, 20:58 ---Panel 4 is why I just can't warm to Faye or even care about any of her problems, shes still just a bully.
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I think I understand how you feel, but my feelings towards Faye have been more... ambiguous? (Sure. I'll go with ambiguous for want of a better word). I have always read her punches to fall into the category of "cartoonish non-reality". Unreal elements of hyperbole that are included and accepted as a means to convey character or tell a story that would otherwise not come across as well. Elliot crushing Clinton's hand is resolved without consequence. Pintsize is repeatedly dented or crushed or filled with cake batter only to be fine in the next strip. Punchbot is routinely ripped to pieces. Sometimes Faye punches people.
But I also feel strongly about characters I identify with. I did cringe when Faye intimidated Claire over the hair in the drain. I like Claire. I identify with Claire. When I saw Faye bullying her, I wanted to jump into the comic and stand up for her. So I can absolutely see resistance to the idea that Faye's bullying should get a pass under cartoon logic.
So reading her character more in terms of actual human bullying, what should we make of her punches? Marten and Angus didn't seem to object; at least they didn't object to the point of limiting their contact with her. Should we read that as a sign that her punches are not harmful? That they are accepted? That shouldn't necessarily make it OK. Not everyone will stand up to an abuser. But should we judge her actions in light of deontological or teleological theories of morality? Is her behavior inherently wrong due to its great capacity to do harm? Or is it acceptable because it is acceptable to the objects of her actions and appears to do no harm? Should we recognize that her bullying behavior is rooted in emotional trauma and celebrate her efforts to resolve it? Or do we condemn harmful behavior regardless of its motivations?
For myself, I take a teleological approach to morality. The morality of an action is found in its consequences, not in any inherent moral property. If the objects of her bullying are not harmed and do not perceive harm, then her actions are not immoral. I also don't think her behavior should get a pass because of her past trauma. Her actions are ultimately her own responsibility and she is responsible for resolving that trauma. Any harm that comes of her actions is similarly her responsibility and she must accept the consequences. But I'd love to hear your take on her behavior, Chris.
Now, all that said, I still can't see her as "just a bully". She has shown herself to be incredibly sensitive, loving and supportive. Even going back as far as when Marten and Dora first started dating, Faye was willing to put aside her feelings and be a good friend to them both. She was hurt, but she talked it out with Dora and fully supported their relationship from then on (unless I'm forgetting something. Could be the case. It was a long time ago). She's been incredible with Bubbles; giving her the emotional support she needs to feel safe connecting emotionally with others and allowing her to do so in her own time rather than forcing her. She's a complex human being. She has very significant flaws that absolutely should not be ignored, but that doesn't make her problems less valid or worth caring about.
BenRG:
Poor Faye is really confused and upset, isn't she? As has already been said, even the hint that she might be actually attracted to Bubbles is enough to trigger her old defensive violence response! I don't think that it is as much unwelcome as it puts her ill-at-ease. She's sort of found a comfort zone, a bit like Marten has a few times; she's understandably unhappy to be forced out of this.
I can see another reason why Faye may find her reaction unwelcome. Let's say for a moment that she's just feeling an 'itch'. If she misinterprets it and does something that she doesn't ultimately want to follow up, then she'll hurt Bubbles. That's something that she wants to avoid at all costs.
FWIW, I don't think Faye is sure right now what she's feeling. She needs to sort that out before she does anything else. In order to do that, she has to accept all the realities that she's been brushing off. That's going to be hard. As I said yesterday, it's going to be especially hard given how badly all of Faye's romantic relationships to date seem to have foundered; she might be afraid of those feelings and desires now.
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 03 May 2018, 21:41 ---Faye treated Momo like an object twice that I can think of. There was tossing her in the air like a toy, and there was looking up her skirt.
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Regarding objectifying AIs, I've said this before but it deserves to be said again: Up to comparatively recently, AnthroPCs were objects both in a legal sense and how they've been viewed by society as a whole. So, Faye isn't really unusual in her reactions to them.
It is my view that a major part of the entire Faye and Bubbles arc has been Faye becoming to see the person behind the plastic, something that she's never had to do before because her limited interactions with AIs, even with Pintsize, only reinforced her 'not really people' reactions to them. Being in continual close contact with Bubbles and the other synthetics at the Skate Park for day after day for many months allowed her mind to start perceiving the person rather than the machinery and, over time, she almost forgot she was a synthetic.
Is it cold in here?:
--- Quote from: Bad Superman on 03 May 2018, 22:29 ---So, playing devil's advocate for a moment, but what if Faye really shoots down the things that have happened between her and Bubbles as her body experiencing a glitch? She said it herself: She hasn't been physical with someone in a long time, and there is this strong bond of mutual trust and friendship between her and Bubbles… (Platonic) Intimacy even. Faye's body may just have short circuited and this made her act on a certain craving…
Just going through possibilities here…
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I think she could have rationalized that way earlier on. At this point there are too many Tetris pieces for even Faye to ignore and they've fallen into place. No, she's stuck with this, even with a human's capability to rationalize things.
(Hey, is that a difference between organics and AIs? I can't remember a synthetic ever coming up with plausible-sounding reasons for a decision that was really something else. Pintsize doesn't even explain his decisions. Even Roko is covering up her bread fetish, not fooling herself about it).
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