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Thoughts about the Warhammer 40,000 universe
Neko_Ali:
Well, the key thing about the 40K universe is that it takes the descriptor 'grimdark' very, very seriously. It is pretty much the Edgelord of campaign settings. There is nothing good, everything and everyone is horrible in their own way and endless war is all everyone knows. There are really two broad archtypes, races and groups who want nothing less than the destruction or subjugation of everyone, everything, everywhere. Whether it's the powers of Chaos who want to see the galaxy burn, the rampaging Orks that just want to fight, kill, eat and then repeat the process. Not necessarily in that order. Or the Tyranids who want to consume everything and add it to their geneseed before moving to a new galaxy. Or one of the races like Mankind, the Eldar or the Tau which are in a desperate struggle fighting on all sides and against each other just so they can survive one more year, or month, or day. And always at the risk of failing. There is no happy ending to be found. Nobody wins. They just delay losing a little longer.
But hey, it's a lot of fun playing, if not living in the universe. :)
Morituri:
Nope. Still doesn't work. They can't possibly be in a desperate struggle for survival. If they gave a crap about winning (or, as you say, gave a crap about surviving) then they'd attempt to use effective tactics.
LeeC:
--- Quote from: hedgie on 02 Jul 2018, 17:47 ---
--- Quote from: Morituri on 02 Jul 2018, 15:29 ---Well, I guess we're in complete agreement then.
I am in fact missing the point. I think I didn't even notice one whizzing past.
And, you know? I'm okay with that, in this instance. If it's fun for you, have fun playing it.
--- End quote ---
I'm intrigued by the Warhammer 'verse, but I don't know enough to know whether or not I'd like it. but it sounds like it really needs Captain Sheridan to yell "Now get the hell out of OUR galaxy".
--- End quote ---
Honestly I think there is something for everyone to like in the universe. The Imperium may not be Morituri's cup of tea. Morituri may like the Tau faction better as everyone has their place in society and nothing is wasted. They try to work toward a greater good for all and include many other races in their empire. They are like the Federation from Star Trek but with mechs. The Tau race went from stone age tech to advanced space fairing race in 2000 years and are very progressive. They have a bit of a dark side though as anyone who joins is apart of society but will never rule the way the Ethereal Caste do, and there has been rumors that they may sterilize humans to control their numbers in the Tau Empire (since Humans are the most populous race in the galaxy). Their Utopian like society and use of diplomacy instead of "kill everything" attitude is a nice change of pace and is the closest thing to light in the grim dark. They can even hold their own against the Imperium of Man due to their advanced technology, flexible tactics, and unique (in warhammer at least) battle doctrine. Its tough to find good fan art of them since most fans like to depict them like samurai, armed with swords fighting off legions of enemies, even though they think close combat is stupid when you can just retreat to a better firing position and blow away the enemy with their hand held rail guns.
edit:
Also, its just a game, so it follows rule of cool, like so many other franchises out there. Chainsaw swords may not be practical, but they do sound awesome. I'm sure you can make the same argument about any other sci-fi/fantasy/alt-history story or game. Its just fun. I'm sure if you put anything fun under the microscope it wouldn't make much sense. Like Rogal Dorn said: "Do you know how us humans express praise by clapping our hands? That is hilarious. Because smacking the floppy end-parts of your arms together to make a noise is a strange way or expressing praise. That is funny"
Morituri:
I have heard the words "Warhammer 40K" before this. I guess I got as far as "Game about futuristic soldiers with a military organization vaguely structured around toxic religion. Huh. I thought religious content was unpopular in the videogamer crowd."
And I never looked into it further. I went to a site looking for boardgame pieces today, and while I was there went over to idly look at their wargaming miniatures. And found ... this ... whatever-it-is. And it's ... words fail me. It's a complete non sequitur. It has nothing to do with anything. It can't be seen as anything that belongs to or makes sense in any setting at all. It doesn't even invoke rule-of-cool, because it's too bizarre and nonsensical. There's literally no reaction at all beyond "What the hell? Why would anyone make a mini that looks like that, and how can they possibly expect that people will care about it?"
It's stupefyingly gratuitous, like an oil painting I once saw of a nude woman riding a wild horse with her hands tied behind her back - apparently controlling it via reins which were looped through rings in her pierced nipples. And, I thought, "someone actually spent their time painting this..... and I have no idea why."
And I thought immediately of this thread, because this is where people share examples of what-the-hell-were-they-smoking and this-makes-no-sense-at-all.
If I were playing a game and saw something like that, I'd be on notice that this is a setting in which something like this is somehow considered to be an effective use of engineering, materials, and people. Which means more than just everybody in the setting being insane and not valuing any life including their own. It means physical law, production economics, supply lines, tactics, strategy, etc... even meaningful mission objectives, because without any of those things what the hell are you trying to accomplish anyway ... is out the window.
And without any of those things, there'd be nothing left that is part of what I personally find fun about wargames.
I just wouldn't be able to have fun attempting to actually play the game. There would be nothing to do, beyond grinding forces against each other in endless frontline engagements that, lacking any kind of strategic targets, won't affect the future course of that setting at all.
Imagery like this though - where the visual apparently has absolutely nothing to do with the combat characteristics of the unit it represents and everything to do with someone trying to come up with the most fucked-up (scuse my language) and contrived-to-be-deliberately-titillating-and-horrifying chunk of story they can muster - means I'd be laughing too hard to even try to play.
EDIT: I think the thing I find most ridiculous about it is that it's so overwrought as to be hokey. I expect to find Dick Dastardly around the corner tying someone to a railroad track for no reason whatsoever, like in an old penny-dreadful.
Neko_Ali:
--- Quote from: Morituri on 02 Jul 2018, 22:34 ---Imagery like this though - where the visual apparently has absolutely nothing to do with the combat characteristics of the unit it represents and everything to do with someone trying to come up with the most fucked-up (scuse my language) and contrived-to-be-deliberately-titillating-and-horrifying chunk of story they can muster - means I'd be laughing too hard to even try to play.
--- End quote ---
Aha, you do understand 40k then. :) It's as much or more an absurdist commentary towards these sorts of sci fi and military tropes. You've got strapping many guys shooting big guns? Ours are genetically engineered to be bigger, strappier and shootier! We've got ancient egyptian undead robots, like The Mummy crossed with The Terminator! Alien space fish communists! The biggest bug aliens you've ever seen! Sexy space nuns in absurdly impractical armor! They worship a man as a god despite the fact that he told you not to worship gods when he was alive, but now he's a corpse on a life support throne but his brain is still alive and it's how they travel between planets! Violent green soccer hooligans with bad Cockney accents that are actually evolved from fungus! And skulls! Skulls everywhere! Skulls on top of skulls to make a throne of skulls!
When you say you can't get into it because it makes no sense it's understandable. But that's also the point of it. 40k is not meant to make sense. There are plenty of sensible military war games out there. 40k is about taking all the wargamming, military, fantasy settings and everything else they can grab, throw it into a blender and turn it up to 13. It's intended to not make a damn bit of sense but be incredibly over the top and extra that it makes people laugh at how absurd and stupid it is. That's why they say 'Hmmm.. strap a mostly naked woman on the hull of a battle suit. It's stupid, sexy, pointless and makes no sense. But it could use some more skulls. Sounds perfect!'
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