Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 7-11 January 2019 (3911-3915)
dutchrvl:
--- Quote from: Tova on 07 Jan 2019, 11:42 ---
--- Quote from: dutchrvl on 07 Jan 2019, 08:55 ---
--- Quote from: TV4Fun on 07 Jan 2019, 08:36 ---
--- Quote from: AJ_ on 07 Jan 2019, 04:32 ---
--- Quote from: TV4Fun on 06 Jan 2019, 20:55 ---Phew, that was close. For a second there I was afraid we were going to have some drama or tension in the plot.
--- End quote ---
Plenty of time for drama over dealing with being in a new body, new body being not quite right.
Maybe bread doesn't smell the same in the new model.
--- End quote ---
I'll believe it when I see it. Jeph has gotten very good at setting up for drama and then completely copping out on it.
--- End quote ---
Do you perhaps have an example of this?
I am not trying to be argumentative here, but in my view Jeph has generally been quite good at setting events up way in advance, so I am genuinely curious which comics/set-ups you are referring to.
Keep in mind that Jeph's storylines not having the drama you anticipated is not the same as 'copping out', just that your anticipated storyline was not the one Jeph envisioned himself. Unless of course you know of Jeph planning for a dramatic storyline and then ultimately deciding not to follow through...
--- End quote ---
Alice Grove.
--- End quote ---
Your comment did make me laugh, so well done :-D
On a serious note, while I was very disappointed with Alice Grove's 'resolution' myself as well, I honestly have no idea whether Jeph had always planned AG that way or if he originally intended to do much more in terms of drama/development etc. If it's the former, then we can't really call it 'copping out', no?
Tova:
No, you're quite right. We can't ever really claim he's copped out. I don't seriously believe that he "cops out" of dramatic storylines myself.
I still think that there is a kernel of truth to the complaint here, and it might be interesting to explore what that might be.
It should be obvious that there's a lot that I think Jeph does well (or I wouldn't be here reading and commenting). He creates characters that resonate with people. He also creates dramatic situations that echo real-life tensions and that stimulate much discussion (and drama) here at WCDT.
What I would really like to see from QC is dramatic climax and resolution that has feels a bit more earned. We all like it when the solution to an uncomfortable situation has been found, but it shouldn't be dropped in the characters laps or it feels like a deus ex machina. Even better, it would be good if the resolution were driven by some kind of internal transformation.
Spookybot is an example that comes to mind of a conflict resolution in QC that worked better than most, but didn't quite get there in my opinion. What was good was that there was an internal transformation for both Faye and Bubbles, which obviously culminated in their relationship. But their internal transformation did not drive the conflict resolution. There was a nice moment when Bubbles went to Faye's apartment and finally explained why Corpse Witch had her over a barrel. That was a good moment, and it did "kind of" drive the resolution. But in the end, they didn't really earn it. Spookybot was dropped into their laps. I know a lot of people liked it because they felt Spookybot is cool. Hey, they are. But still, it would have felt so much better if Faye and Bubbles had put their heads together to come up with a solution themselves.
The current storyline still hasn't played out fully necessarily, so we shouldn't draw too many conclusions. But the setup is so good. On the one hand, we have the much-discussed difficult problem of Roko losing the body she is so obviously attached to. And we have Lemon, who is apparently not very good at her job. There's a lot of story potential there. And - I repeat - maybe the last comic isn't the end of this, but the problems appears to have magically resolved in four panels. It was, in my opinion, too easy. It wasn't earned. And there has been no internal transformation.
There are others that I would have to search through the archives to find, but what about the infamous Dora and Marten split up? Arguably the last time we saw conflict play out over a long period of time, and maybe the reason Jeph now shies away from it? I'm speculating wildly, obviously. But looking back on that storyline, it has kind of resolved in that they are now happily involved in separate relationships and have reconciled. That's nice. But what internal transformation have we seen? From either of them? Nothing as far as I can tell. For all I know, jealousy still lurks under the surface with Dora, even though we haven't seen it (we haven't really seen Dora much at all). Marten's ability to negotiate relationship issues hasn't been addressed as far as I can tell. He has grown in confidence, though I have no real idea what motivated that change. His aimlessness and passivity seem unchanged.
One good example of resolution a bit more motivated by internal transformation would be the conflict between Winslow and May. Winslow decided to help AIs and did some counselling. I'd like to see more of that kind of thing.
Anyway, sorry for my improperly thought through ramble.
TLDR I don't believe Jeph "cops out," but I would love to see his conflicts, which I genuinely think are well constructed, to have better-earned resolution motivated by internal transformation.
Warning: while you were typing, no-one said a damned thing. Yeah, hit that "post" button, what could go wrong?
Theta9:
--- Quote from: rtmq0227 on 07 Jan 2019, 10:28 ---Remember that time that people were convinced we were going to see Union Robotics taken to court and fiscally destroyed? Pepperidge Farm remembers :P
--- End quote ---
Remember when Family Guy was funny?
Neither does Pepperidge Farms.
Case:
--- Quote from: Tova on 07 Jan 2019, 16:00 ---<snip>
--- End quote ---
The words 'conflict' and 'resolution' keep coming up again (We've been here before, but last time, the discussion sort of fizzled out). A few thoughts(ketches) - and apologies that my vocabulary is very much not up to the task:
As you said, today's strip may not be 'the resolution'. Maybe this is merely the prologue to a longer arc - Jeph has done that before (Remember Faye's sister's visit? Ok, y'all can stop twitching now. Sorry!).
I'd go further and ask: What if this isn't even a 'conflict' in Jeph's mind? Maybe this arc serves as exposition. He's also done that before, if memory serves (Momo perusing the history of the evolution of AI-rights)
And what do people even mean by 'conflict'? And what do they mean by 'resolution'? This sounds to me like there's either an expectation that QC should follow some dramatic arc, like a novel, or a play - It's been fifteen years, is anybody seriously still waiting for Marten's 'Hero's Journey' to kick into high gear? - or that QC should be sort of a sequence of 'mini-dramas/novels/whatever' ("Goddamit Jim, I'm a physicist, not a critic"), with each arc conforming to some greek-theatre drama concept (Some Humanititarian please tell me what I'm trying to say. Thanks.)
And who said that QC has a plot in the 'conventional' sense? Again: Fifteen! Years! Jeph has said that he writes a few weeks ahead, and maybe he has some story-ideas for 2021 already planned - but I don't have the impression that he has a huge plot laid out, with Marten dying at age 47, heroically sacrificing himself so his comrades on the botched first manned mission to Mars can survive (Hey, mind my headcannon, would you?)
This is a slice of life webcomic. Is your life one unending sequence of dramas (dramata? Dromedar?)? Are you on one hero's journey after the other - or are you expecting there'll be only one? Or are there times where the river runs more slowly, where nothing much is outwardly happening?
TL;DR - when people talk about 'conflict' and 'resolution' - and especially about 'plot' - I'm a bit confused as to what they mean or expect.
TV4Fun:
--- Quote from: dutchrvl on 07 Jan 2019, 13:45 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 07 Jan 2019, 11:42 ---
--- Quote from: dutchrvl on 07 Jan 2019, 08:55 ---
--- Quote from: TV4Fun on 07 Jan 2019, 08:36 ---
--- Quote from: AJ_ on 07 Jan 2019, 04:32 ---
--- Quote from: TV4Fun on 06 Jan 2019, 20:55 ---Phew, that was close. For a second there I was afraid we were going to have some drama or tension in the plot.
--- End quote ---
Plenty of time for drama over dealing with being in a new body, new body being not quite right.
Maybe bread doesn't smell the same in the new model.
--- End quote ---
I'll believe it when I see it. Jeph has gotten very good at setting up for drama and then completely copping out on it.
--- End quote ---
Do you perhaps have an example of this?
I am not trying to be argumentative here, but in my view Jeph has generally been quite good at setting events up way in advance, so I am genuinely curious which comics/set-ups you are referring to.
Keep in mind that Jeph's storylines not having the drama you anticipated is not the same as 'copping out', just that your anticipated storyline was not the one Jeph envisioned himself. Unless of course you know of Jeph planning for a dramatic storyline and then ultimately deciding not to follow through...
--- End quote ---
Alice Grove.
--- End quote ---
Your comment did make me laugh, so well done :-D
On a serious note, while I was very disappointed with Alice Grove's 'resolution' myself as well, I honestly have no idea whether Jeph had always planned AG that way or if he originally intended to do much more in terms of drama/development etc. If it's the former, then we can't really call it 'copping out', no?
--- End quote ---
I'll call it copping out. Planning to cop out is still copping out. If you set up a dramatic conflict in your story and then just resolve it by magic (spookybot e.g.), that is bad writing, and whether you planned to write badly or not, it's still a copout.
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