Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT strips 3931-3935 (4th to 8th February 2019)
huttj509:
--- Quote from: dutchrvl on 11 Feb 2019, 05:29 ---
--- Quote from: Oenone on 08 Feb 2019, 09:19 ---Also, it’s othering because white Americans don’t ask other white Americans where they are from. It’s a question that implies you aren’t yourself American.
--- End quote ---
I get asked at least once a week where I am from, and I am as white as can be (have been in the US for >10 yrs now). I have always assumed the question was merely out of interest and been happy to talk about my background. There is still such a thing as genuine interest in people's stories....
To presume the same question to my non-white fellow expats is always coming from a bad place goes a bit far. My gf certainly doesn't presume that (ethnic Thai but in US for >20 years now, also gets asked regularly), should she?
I don't disagree with the premise that for those with non-white ethnical backgrounds, the reason for being asked "where are you from" may more often be negative (and perhaps sometimes racist, yes), but depending on context/situation the question in fact may often be simply curiosity/interest in your story....
One of my friends (who is, like @Akima, ethnic Han, grew up in Canada and the USA) has been living in the Netherlands for a couple of years now.
For her, she took issue with the question where she is from the first year or so after moving to the Netherlands, for similar reasons as many have pointed out above. For her, it took about a year before she realized that the vast majority of people asking where simply doing so because they were interested in her and her personal story, not because they thought she wasn't a true Dutch citizen or didn't belong there. For her she said it had to a lot with her growing up and having had some bad experiences with being 'othered' back in Canada and to some degree the US though.
--- End quote ---
I have never been asked that question unless I first indicate that I'm "not from here." Such as mentioning having moved to my current state in the US ~9 years ago, or missing mountains, or when visiting a friend at a large gathering with people from hours around. Or back at college, where people were from across the country.
Now, I'm generally 'not from here.' I'm not living near the state I grew up in, I was not born in the state I grew up in, I have no family living in either the state I grew up in, or the one I was born in. My father was not born in this country, my grandfather wasn't born in this country, nor were my great-grandparents.
But I blend into the crowd, and don't have a notably distinct accent for where I live. So nobody asks me where I'm from unless I've indicated the answer's not local.
The 3 examples you mention are people who *are* from elsewhere. This context can put a very different light on things from someone who is local, but gets treated as if they're not. A friend of mine has dealt with "where are you from" many times, and her answer is, completely honestly, "Texas." "No, I mean where are you *from*." Her daughter needs to go more generations back. Where's she from? Midwest. Where are her parents from? Midwest and Texas. No, like, where's her *family from*...
Torlek:
--- Quote from: Thrillho on 11 Feb 2019, 11:20 ---Okay, I express this as an exasperated human, not a mod.
But you would not believe how easy I found it to treat people with more respect when my response to people with colour or anyone who has a characteristic I do not share was to just listen and enact what they ask.
My experience, as a white, cis, queer male, is not the same as that of people of colour, women, transpeople, non-binary people, and arguably straight men although I moved comfortable in those circles for decades so I definitely got a pretty strong experience of it.
These experiences simply are not comparable, even as a white person in a country where that makes you a minority.
Life got so much easier when I stopped white person responding and just started listening and enacting. It's not like I am saying there is no room for discussion, and I am not singling anyone out.
Nobody is calling anyone a monster, or an asshole, or racist or even 'a racist.' They are telling you their experience, and it also shouldn't be their job to do that anyway, so frankly I am just eternally grateful whenever I get to hear these experiences and thoughts.
This is WAY more strawman than this thread deserves, but I have been thinking about this a lot lately and the more I realise how much my own behaviour can be both charmed and damaging the more I wonder how some minority folk aren't just screaming endlessly into a pillow whenever they have to interact with others.
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Exactly this. If a person from a traditionally oppressed group tells you something is offensive and you're from one or more of the groups that traditionally oppress them, SHUT UP AND LISTEN. Your opinions don't matter unless they're asked for.
Theta9:
--- Quote from: DSL on 10 Feb 2019, 17:27 ---... I never could figure out a narrative purpose for Hannelore mangling Tilly's name, unless it was to show us how much Hannelore resented her as a symbol of Beatrice's meddling in her life.
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You misinterpret. Hannelore was calling Tilly "Taffy" because that's the name she heard from her mother, and she simply didn't hear the multiple corrections. When she finally did, she was properly contrite about it.
Tova:
Of course, Jeph's narrative purpose for Hannelore getting Tilly's name wrong is unknowable, but I feel motivated enough to take a proper look at this narrative arc and see what meaning we can wrestle from it. Just bear in mind that this is my personal reading only, and can't claim it to be universal.
Let's go.
Number 3607: A Noble Steed
'Ah, yes. Taffy, or something like that?'
''Thank you, mother," you'll say. "You're always correct, ..."
There's nothing like the image of animal abuse (robo or otherwise) to quickly set up the villain of the piece. But this is also a thematic setup. Beatrice is disregarding the agency of the horse, subjugating it to her will. Maybe she'd even argue that this is best for the horse. It's easy to see an analogy between this and the way she is treating Hannelore. So this sets up the basic conflict of the arc.
Number 3609: Unstoppable
'You are exactly the kind of person my mother would hire.'
Tilly is exhibiting the same trait here - Beatrice's behaviour has rubbed off on them. So now we can see the basic conflict play out between the two of them.
Number 3610: Use Case
'I just don't think there's anything for you to do, Taffy.
Hannelore gets Tilly's name wrong for the first time. Remember Beatrice's claim that she is "always correct?" In spite of Hannelore's fury at her mother, she is, on some level, still accepting what Beatrice is saying. This will become clearer later, but this is the first hint that both Hannelore and Tilly are being fundamentally misled by Beatrice. Yet, the conflict will need to play out between them before the root cause (Beatrice's disregard for others) can be properly addressed.
Number 3612: Daily Abultions
'Oh, I'm going to enjoy working for you, ma'am!'
The first hint of the potential for them to become fast friends if they can resolve this conflict.
Number 3614: Dogs ARE Good
'How long have you been working for my mother?'
And the first hint of Hannelore's realisation that Tilly's behaviours have been strongly influenced by Beatrice.
Number 3617: Laying Down The Law
'Isn't that pretty messed up, though? To disregard someone else's agency like that?'
Hannelore finally addresses head on the central conflict between her and Tilly (and with Beatrice, by extension), and in doing so, breaks the spell Beatrice has over Tilly.
Number 3624: She Really Blue It
Hannelore realises that she was essentially guilty of the same thing - hurting someone after being misled by Beatrice.
Number 3635: The Other Shoe Drops
'We're going to see my mother tomorrow.'
Title just about says it all. Hannelore realises the truth about her mother.
Number 3638: Just So We're Clear
'I thought you were being your usual out-of-touch self ... But this wasn't about helping me at all.
Climax of the story. Speaks for itself.
Number 3640: It Will Come Out In The Wash
(very meta title)
'I'm sorry, Tilly. My mother used us both.'
Apotheosis. What has come out in the wash? Hannelore and Tilly are now fast friends after realising that Tilly's behaviour and Hannelore's misnaming of Tilly had the same root cause: Beatrice. That's not to absolve either of blame for what they did, but to recognise that what they have in common is far stronger than their past differences.
To cut a long story short (too late): Hannelore's misnaming of Tilly feeds into the story of how both of them were misled into thinking that Beatrice was looking out for them. It gave Hannelore empathy with Tilly's plight, as Hannelore had hurt Tilly after accepting something said by Beatrice, just as Tilly had done. It also revealed a quite positive aspect of Tilly's personality - they were quite patient in a situation where many others would have been aggrieved.
Hannelore's realisation of Tilly's real name is also kind of a trigger for her realisation that Tilly is, in spite of their mistake, a good person, and that Beatrice is the one who truly deserves her wrath. You could even see it as a metaphor for Hannelore's inability to see the real Tilly - she was looking at her mother.
I think that's the most effort I've ever put into analysing a QC arc, but I think it was one of the more interesting ones.
I do hope that forumites who have never forgiven Tilly's initial behaviour can finally come around to reevaluating them, just as Hannelore has managed to do.
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