Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

WCDT 4176-4180 (13th - 17th, January 2020)

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Cornelius:
Just my two cents on a couple of things:


--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jan 2020, 18:49 ---But Jeph said once that Ais are the legal owners of the body they are in, which would rule out renting unless there are exceptions.

--- End quote ---
Even though it's word of Jeph, I still contend that that's a problematic principle. And one might even argue from that position, that the department of corrections is not liable for maintenance, or replacement. And buying it back might be complex.


--- Quote from: Carl-E on 16 Jan 2020, 19:26 ---Not to mention the fact that if the fighter jet was damaged in her taking it for herself, she's have to pay for those damages as well.

--- End quote ---
As far as I remember, she was caught before she even got near buying it, in the transfer of funds.

As regards the discussion in general, it seems to me that one of the questions it boils down to is this: why is she, not having contributed to society in a meaningful way, entitled to help? And that's exactly the question certain people are asking for welfare in general, and for refugees specifically. 

Edited to clarify: the question is a paraphrase, and not intended to open the question of May's contribution to society. Whatever she did, and does now, contribute, is generally, by the kind of people that ask the question, regarded as being negated by her crime, even if she is doing her time, and the funds were recuperated.

My point of view is that there's a higher goal served - in this case rehabilitation, and non-recidivism - and so more benefits delivered by helping out, than a strict 'insert coin' approach can deliver.

BenRG:
I have noticed this before but I do think that Jeph is getting more and more into drawing beatuiful android women for no other reason than to have a beautiful android woman on the page. I'm not complaining, mind you. I could gaze at Roko in panel 4 until it starts getting weird!

We've learned two things here: Like almost all fictional women, Roko strongly identifies with Belle in the Walt Disney telling of Beauty and the Beast. May, meanwhile, feels that the resolution of the threat plots in such stories lacks efficiency.

Personally, I have the feeling that today's strip is an inter-arc transition. Where might such a mis-matched pair be going together?

Cornelius:

--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jan 2020, 18:49 ---But Jeph said once that Ais are the legal owners of the body they are in, which would rule out renting unless there are exceptions.

--- End quote ---
Come to think of it, it isn't impossible to imagine that May's body might represent the value of the hardware she previously lived in.

BenRG:

--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jan 2020, 18:49 ---Jeph said once that Ais are the legal owners of the body they are in, which would rule out renting unless there are exceptions.
--- End quote ---

This raises an interesting possibility: May's current chassis is a junker but, just maybe, is it also a classic? There are people on-line who pay many multiples of their practical value for old and obsolete equipment (even of fairly recent vintage) to enshrine it in a museum, personal or public. Might someone be willing to pay many multiples of the value of May's chassis to do the same? All they need to do is pay for a replacement instead of directly paying to take immediate possession!

Aenno:
First of all, I'd like to nickpick some things.
1. Momo's chassis isn't that chassis that costs 30K+$. Her chassis is Sony KawaiiPC HPC-4100x AnthroPC, and 30K+ one is Mitsubishi PX-3500. It can be anything in Mitsubishi one, up for rocket launchers, supersonic jet engines and satellite friendship laser. That's have a point - the difference between chassises can be quite a large. Still, industrial hand robot today costs about 30K$ as well, just to point a perspective.
2. Again, I'd like to notice that beggars can't be choosers in parole system. If there is a lot of AIs who are allowed to be disembodied and to work, it's good for them; that doesn't mean such an option exists for May, and, by the way, bureaucrat never said this! Reread him: he never suggests May refuse a body and became disembodied, staying on parole (and also he is rude on the point of lawsuit - he offended a citizen at least twice, calling her incompetent and stupid). Existence of other cases can be a reason for parole conditions changing hearing, but, well, it costs money (that May haven't), and it means more attention to her life with a threat of return to jail (that May is afraid). What he IS saying is that "hey, it's rare and insignificant case, that's why she'll have a bad body", not "hey, your client can nicely exist without a body at all". And, again, his own job existence means that it happens often enough. Essentially, rule of thumb: when a government worker (or, well, any worker) saying you that your case is unimportant and rare of him to bother to do anything, take his reasoning with a grain of salt.
3. And again I'd like to point that being disembodied isn't equal to being without hardware to be based on. They still need a hardware, hardware that suits the basic need of running an AI, and have enough resources for the job in question as well. And this hardware can be quite costly. A simplest server machine I had on my work would cost about 1000$, and, you know, it's a paid job to maintenance it, and it takes some electricity to work. Essentially, being disembodied in QC universe looks like the synonymous to "being limited to unmobile platform". So when you're saying "May could not ask for a body, but stay unembodied", you're saying "government would provide her a server machine instead of gynoid body, for free".
4. Again, we can't exactly say what's constitute AI rights in QC universe, but we do know about AI Equal Rights amendment. That means that AIs are defended, beyond other things (like working on the job their system created for - 13th Amendment) from cruel and unusual punishments. And the very first attribute of cruel and usual punishments is "one is degrading to human dignity".

Still, as far as I like to discuss legal questions with AI in tow, it's not a core question here. The core is:

--- Quote from: notsocool on 16 Jan 2020, 17:20 ---Look, let's say I have a psychological need to have a car, and let's say my circumstances require me to have a car to work. It's not a real thing, but neither is an AI having a psychological need for a body, so work with me here. The state won't give me a car just because I have a need for one - American government doesn't even entitle a person to medicine. What the comic is advocating is giving me a car if, and only if, I first am a parolee.

Do you not see the inconsistency in this? If I was friend with an AI in serious financial difficulties with this condition, and they started giving out chassis to parolees, would I start advising my friend, "How do you feel committing a mild felony?"

--- End quote ---
And yes, I'd say that if a state released you from the prison on the condition of you living in Willamina, Oregon (two thousands of population) (because, hey, they want you to live in governmental-approved location to ensure you're not middling with substance abusers; yes, it's frequent condition), and demands you to meet your parole officer at least twice per week in Portlend, Oregon (about 55 miles), and demands you to find a non-digital job in a sphere you don't have any experience and education for (and, let's face it, you can't just get a decent job or take a loan), and this job should be approved by your parole officer... well, I'd say giving you a car is a decent thing. And no, I'd not advise your friend to get a chassis under such conditions.


--- Quote from: BenRG on 17 Jan 2020, 01:23 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jan 2020, 18:49 ---Jeph said once that Ais are the legal owners of the body they are in, which would rule out renting unless there are exceptions.
--- End quote ---

This raises an interesting possibility: May's current chassis is a junker but, just maybe, is it also a classic? There are people on-line who pay many multiples of their practical value for old and obsolete equipment (even of fairly recent vintage) to enshrine it in a museum, personal or public. Might someone be willing to pay many multiples of the value of May's chassis to do the same? All they need to do is pay for a replacement instead of directly paying to take immediate possession!

--- End quote ---
I don't think so. She was looked at by a couple of decent professionals, including Bubbles and tech man in a shop, and nobody ever says something like this. And people who are working with hardware is quite sensitive to such things, IRL and in QC (you can remember that literally everybody with a grain of experience just identify Pintsize's highly classified military hardware at a first glance, including Marygold!).

UPD: Again, just to clarify my position about this:

--- Quote from: Cornelius on 16 Jan 2020, 22:55 ---Edited to clarify: the question is a paraphrase, and not intended to open the question of May's contribution to society. Whatever she did, and does now, contribute, is generally, by the kind of people that ask the question, regarded as being negated by her crime, even if she is doing her time, and the funds were recuperated.

--- End quote ---
1. I'm not balance type of guy. It's not, in my opinion, a thing about "how good she done, and how bad she done". Her having a really golden heart (very) deep inside - which is possibly a thing here - doesn't mean she shouldn't be lawfully punished for her crime, under the due process requirements.
2. Still, I do believe in human decency thing. Somebody being bad shouldn't remove it. So yeah, I'm up for medicare, shelters and free clothes to people who can not afford it. Even if they're bad.
3. And yes, I do believe that QC universe have a problem with adolescent teenagers with a problems with moral judgement and bad impulse control are operating orbital bombardment devices and moving millions of dollars around. So May may be guilty (and I think she is), but it's a social problem she was able to make her crime in the first time.

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