Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Wingy:
Wait! Beeps! thinks it would be better with strippers. Beeps?!?
I always suspected she was a horny little weirdo underneath the goody-two-shoes act. [4034]
Thrillho:
--- Quote from: Tova on 27 Aug 2020, 07:36 ---
--- Quote from: Thrillho on 27 Aug 2020, 07:00 ---
--- Quote from: Tova on 26 Aug 2020, 21:21 ---That doesn't mean that all labour is equally exploitative.
--- End quote ---
Nor does it mean that stripping or sex work are inherently more exploitative.
...
... it is illegality which provides the majority of the unique risks in sex work.
--- End quote ---
I mean... I'm sure you're right.
Does that mean those risks don't count or something?
--- End quote ---
Not really sure what point I was particularly trying to make. I meant to circle back in my post and write in something about how only that one particular line was even meant to be in response to you specifically and the rest was just general musings on the topic.
--- Quote from: snubnose on 27 Aug 2020, 07:06 ---Why, thats exactly what I would expect ... and thankfully nobody has ever tried to drag me to such a place.
To be honest, I'm not even sure my country (Germany) has such places.
--- End quote ---
This struck me as quite an odd suggestion to make, so I looked it up, and evidently there's fewer than might be expected due to the legality of brothels, but there are still plenty.
--- Quote ---You cannot "sacrifice rights".
Or do you know a way to "sacrifice" a human right?
--- End quote ---
This reads as a bit combative to me, but I seem to have upset you somehow?
I gave a reasonably specific example in my previous post, but here is a link to the Citizens' Advice Bureau, which references the British requirement for a maximum 48-hour working week. An employer can't make you work more than 48 hours. However, you can sign an agreement to work more than 48 hours if you like. Perhaps the language I was using was inelegant, and what is happening here is a quibble over semantics, and to you this doesn't qualify as 'sacrificing a right' (as you can renege on the agreement at any time) but to me, if you have the right to refuse to work more than 48 hours, and you choose to work more than 48 hours, you're giving up one of your employment rights voluntarily. People can sign up to be exploited.
--- Quote ---And thanks to a certain Mrs Tatcher, british law isnt exactly exemplary in regards to worker rights.
--- End quote ---
Okay? I didn't say it was. In my fact my point was quite the opposite. Also, the last time Thatcher stood in an election I was still in utero, so I didn't vote for her if that helps. Although a lot of the UK employment law is enshrined in EU law, and in many cases has backup legislation doubling the EU legislation to safeguard it, but then in a post-Brexit world who knows.
--- Quote ---And I'm sure some slave owners have been super nice to their slaves, too. That changes nothing.
--- End quote ---
I have no idea what you're going for here, but it pretty much seems like you're suggesting I endorse slavery which I most definitely don't.
If what you're suggesting is that all sex work is slavery, then I definitely don't agree with that either. I used the phrase 'sex work,' not 'prostitution' or 'stripping', deliberately, not for this reason, but for example... who is a camgirl working her own profile page on onlyfans, and running a business, enslaved to? Because I'd say a camgirl with her own business licence is less enslaved than a high fashion model who needs the industry itself to succeed.
Perhaps I'm expressing myself poorly, because people don't seem to be happy with what I'm saying, but the point I'm trying to get across was pretty much summed up succinctly enough by spin earlier in the thread:
--- Quote from: sitnspin on 26 Aug 2020, 20:37 ---All labour is exploitative under capitalism. Sex work is not unique in this regard.
--- End quote ---
...and I laboured the point because I try never to miss an opportunity to erode people's prejudices about sex work in general.
Mordhaus:
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 27 Aug 2020, 04:10 ---
--- Quote from: Beast_Reborn on 26 Aug 2020, 18:54 ---All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.
--- End quote ---
The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to. This statement includes 11 family funerals including those of four grandparents.
I'd wager the 'I'm doing this so I don't starve' combined with the creepy leering old dudes and the broke-ass losers "tryin' ta get with" the strippers are the reason for that deressing atmosphere.
--- End quote ---
As someone who used to work in a club many years ago, I can tell you that most of the women worked there because they chose to. There were a couple that I knew that worked because of a bad situation, but even they changed after a while of working.
The inherent truth of a club is that it is a con game. Even the strippers who don't initially run the game eventually reach a point of doing so because it is economically viable in an extreme sense. The men, gullible mooks that they are, are paying for a fantasy. The women are milking that fantasy as closely as they can without violating the law, raking over a bundle of cash. I've worked at places with house fees and without, but it is typical for a woman who knows how to run the con well to bring home 1k-2k a night in cold hard cash. A lot of them cheat on their taxes as well. Three to four nights a week, or more. One woman I worked with told me she had made well over a 100k the previous year (1993).
Those are the numbers if they are just running the game. If they take it farther and set up dates with clients or allow clients to do things in the rooms, they can easily make more. If they are travelling headliners, it's even more money. That is why a lot of porn stars do strip clubs in their down time, they make more money travelling the clubs than they do per movie, even the 'stars'.
Is there a dark side? Yes, there are always a small number of women who had mental or substance issues. The thing is, they don't last long because they can't run the con well. Or they try to and get caught by the law.
I have been out of the game for a very long time, but if you had walked into a club back in the 90's and tried to reason with one of the strippers, they would have laughed you out of the place. To them it's a way to control men and get paid. I was even conned by them initially. I had been working at Arby's when I was 18 and a pair of women came in around 2 AM (LSS, it was an Arby's in a 24 hour truck stop). They persuaded the night supervisor to give them free food if they flashed their tits. I managed to get one of their numbers and she led me down the path of working in the club she was in. Then when she found someone with a better cash flow, I was history. Strippers are mercenary to the core.
Mordhaus:
--- Quote from: snubnose on 27 Aug 2020, 07:06 ---
--- Quote from: Beast_Reborn on 26 Aug 2020, 18:54 ---All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, [...]
--- End quote ---
Why, the only ethics of capitalism is that greed is good. If you're not greedy, you cannot gain the special status of being capitalist, and without greed, you cannot improve or even just keep the status of capitalist. There is no other actual ethical imperative in this system.
For example just check out what capitalism did to christmas. Many people hate christmas because its so materialistic nowadays.
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 27 Aug 2020, 04:10 ---The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to. [...]
--- End quote ---
Why, thats exactly what I would expect ... and thankfully nobody has ever tried to drag me to such a place.
To be honest, I'm not even sure my country (Germany) has such places.
--- Quote from: Thrillho on 27 Aug 2020, 07:00 ---British law also allows you to volunteer to sacrifice certain employment rights [...]
--- End quote ---
You cannot "sacrifice rights".
Or do you know a way to "sacrifice" a human right ?
And thanks to a certain Mrs Tatcher, british law isnt exactly exemplary in regards to worker rights.
--- Quote from: Thrillho on 27 Aug 2020, 07:00 ---Many people do not object to the risks of sex work, they object to the 'sex' of sex work. A perfectly pleasant transaction [...]
--- End quote ---
And I'm sure some slave owners have been super nice to their slaves, too. That changes nothing.
--- End quote ---
They have a few clubs, but since prostitution/brothels are legal in Germany, stripping isn't the draw that it is in a place where sex acts for money are illegal.
brasca:
--- Quote from: Gus_Smedstad on 27 Aug 2020, 01:03 ---
--- Quote from: brasca on 27 Aug 2020, 00:20 ---A lot has been said about May not deserving to be stuck in a substandard chassis after paying her debt to society, but I still find it hard to believe enough people contributed to this fundraiser if they actually met her. Maybe Roko wrote a really heart wrenching story.
--- End quote ---
My theory is that most QC characters are big softies.
--- End quote ---
There’s only so much they can give. Spidrift mentions Faye and Hannelore scaring people into giving although guilt tripping is probably more likely. Most people who gave haven’t met May which is probably why this fundraiser was a success. The more you know the less charitable you get.
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