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Objectivity in Music

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ASturge:
YES

YOU SIR, ARE A GOD

KharBevNor:
Or maybe the art historian would like to think he knows best, but is really just going by needling technical detail and recieved knowledge, with no estimation of the emotional impact of a work, which is of course, entirely subjective.

Gryff:
Emotional impact is also something completely separate from whether something is good or not. You certainly cannot argue with how a work of art (painting, song, whatever) makes someone feel, but the work could still have intrinsic qualities that are good or bad.

I think everyone here is fairly aware of the music that you listen to, Khar. Would you not agree that to appreciate metal you have to have some experience with it? The more metal you have listened to the less it sounds like "noise" and the more you can differentiate between styles and appreciate certain aspects. You would be able to hear differences in quality (technical skill for eg.) that others may not be able to.

If somebody said "all metal sounds the same and is shit", would that be a valid viewpoint when you know that that person has not listened to a lot of metal?

KharBevNor:
True, but that's just one genre. You can't compare metal and, say, hip hop. There are no set technical things that make music good, and different things really are good to different people. More experience lets you appreciate metal, but what is good metal? Ask one metalhead with a stack of rare vinyl, and it's classic Sabbat, ask another and it's the latest Borknagar CD, once again it's all objective: what makes great metal to one man is effete wankery to another.

Gryff:
Can't metal and hip-hop both be good? Can't both Sabbath and Borknagar be good? You don't have to compare them.

If one thing is good it doesn't automatically mean that everything else is not good. That's flawed logic.


--- Quote from: KharBevNor ---what makes great metal to one man is effete wankery to another
--- End quote ---


I'm not saying that intrinsic goodness (if it exists) should change how we respond to music personally, but I'm saying it might be possible that one of those men is wrong about what makes "good" metal.


--- Quote from: KharBevNor ---what is good metal?
--- End quote ---


...is the question that probably nobody can answer for sure (although some might like to).

The fact that we as humans find it difficult to observe things objectively means that actually finding truths is bloody difficult work. :)

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