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[Robbo]

Ok, I was going to post this earlier, but couldn't put it the right way. And I'm pretty sure the mods would have jumped on it as chance to go "This is just here to bash music you don't like, in perticular Indie, so you're just trying to cause problems and mouth off. UltraDeathKill Ban! kthxbye!"

But that's not the point of this. Point is, when you have to listen you don't like...how do you listen to it, and why? I'm guessing a lot of people phase it out or whatever. But there are some cases when I point. Certainly if someone wants me to listen to it, I will. A lot of the time I probably won't like it, but I'm not a complete dick and I at least find out what I'm bashing. So I pay attention, so I know what I'm talking about when I state my dislike.

For people that like music and have active interests in it, I think it's something you have to do. After all, can't speak about things and say why you do or don't like if you haven't listen to them. I don't know if people think I'm speaking out of my arse when I say something like active and passive listening. Passively just sitting there, not really focusing, treating it as background noise, doing other things like talking to friends, playing games or whatever. And actively sitting yourself down infront of the stereo and giving your full attention to the music, all the little bits, how it changes and how it all realates.

But I hope you get the idea, it's not so much the idea and mood you have when you listen to the music...what the attention you give it and if you're trying to see all the details or just have it as sound (pleasing or not) in the background.

And before I go, this doesn't mean I think I can go "I actively listen to the music you like, I can say it sucks all I want on these boards. Man it's really crap." Or that I think I will be able to turn into a "Well, I listen to this album today and it sucks because of this, this, this.." thread (As much fun as review thread the boards would be, mods would probably say it violates the happy land rule even if it was working with balanced and well written good and bad reviews).

So, today I went to see my mate Paul. I ended up being made to listen to the Dismemberment Plan album "Emergency and I". So I sat there infront of the stereo and listend to it all from start to finish.* Normally I'd just tune stuff like this into the background or leave if it was a club or something. I thought it was horrible, being bland, boring, showing very little music ability and made me want to jump out of the window, blah blah blah. You know I don't like Indie and the mods are probably itching to ban me for that comment now.

And no the point of this thread is not to let me get those few comments in. Nor to be "Hey, I'm a dick and I like to listen to music other people enjoy just to trash it." I certainly don't do it just with Indie, I've listened to others things I dont like. Such as A7X's new album, I have mentioned the fact on the boards. The album is claimed by some to be a certain genre, I listend so I could say why I think it's not and to say why it's bad. I'

It's partly to say, "Hey, I've listen to it, I have a grounding for my dislikes." And also to ask people, what approachs do you take to listening to stuff you don't like. Are their times when you pay attention, do you ever take time to listen to certain genres so you can talk about them?

Guess an example would the issue of "Real Emo" that's going on at the momment. Now, a lot of people don't like the common media image of Emo. But because of what's mean said, would anyone or has anyone gone and tracked down some of the real Emo to listen too? To say "I dont like emo, yes I have actually heard the Embrace album and I didn't like it either."

EDIT: Meh, that comes across badly, but it's been on my mind after having to listen to the album and I was wondering about it.

*Note, I also don't think to be fair, whatever that everyone else HAS to do things like this to be able to comment on stuff like don't like. Or that people now HAVE to go and listen to listen to a Dreams of Dying Stars album or something in tit for tat.

[MilkmanDan]

So, today I went to see my mate Paul. I ended up being made to listen to the Dismemberment Plan album "Emergency and I". So I sat there infront of the stereo and listend to it all from start to finish.* Normally I'd just tune stuff like this into the background or leave if it was a club or something. I thought it was horrible, being bland, boring, showing very little music ability and made me want to jump out of the window, blah blah blah. You know I don't like Indie and the mods are probably itching to ban me for that comment now.

You realize that people don't actually get banned for disliking an album, right? I know it's a fucking miracle of nature that you listen to Metal, but you need to stop acting like your some sort of goddamn freedom fighter, with the evil mods desperate to ban you for not listening to 'indie music'. I'm more likely to get banned for quoting your post than you are for not liking The Dismemberment Plan. I guess that makes me a total rebel, and now everyone else on these forums is totally out to get me. Seriously. Just lighten up.

Anyway, the point of this topic might have slid by me, but I think the question boils down to 'Do you ever listen, REALLY in-depth listen, to music you don't like?'.
Assuming that's the point, then yeah sometimes. But I don't do it just so I can say "I hate Indie Music. Yeah, I listened to the dismemberment plan album, it sucked. Therefore my opinion on the entire genre is vastly increased". I generally do when people whose music tastes usually align with mine recommend something to me, and I'm not feeling it. Three recent examples are "LCD Soundsystem - LCD Soundsystem", "Notorious BIG - Ready to Die", and "An Anthology of Noise & Electronic Music [1921-2001]"
LCD Soundsystem and the anthology were recammended to me by friends, and Ready to Die is one of Hip-Hop's undisputed classics, beloved by basically everyone. None of them grabbed me at first, but I listened through all of them with serious concentration 5 or 6 times. Both the Notorious BIG and LCD Soundsystem are (in my opinion, duh) mind-blowingly overated pieces of crap. There is one song I like on each album, tops. The anthology kicks serious ass, which makes it irrelevant to this topic.
The point is, I often sit down and listen my ass off to music I don't like, but only if I think I might like it after a while. I guess regularily listen to things you think you'll hate is quite a good idea, as you can discover really suprising things you'd otherwise miss. Frankly though, I haven't got enought ime to listen to all the music I like, so music I don't doesn't get much of a look in.

Edit: If that wasn't what you were getting at, then my bad. Hopefully it was.

[Robbo]

Oh for crying out loud, I tried to spend ages re-writing to make sure it couldn't taken as bashing anything. Dan, we've been over this I do not see myself as oppressed or some damn freedom fighter as you want to put it. I went and editted out the two references to Metal in the topic if that helps me at all.

Just the mods say they're gonna be ultra tight on people causing problems and as I dont like Indie and it's the majority, I feel it could have been far to easy to have it taken as me trying to rock everyones else boat. So I was trying to watch my step really closely. That's all.

But the rules state Metal as example of what "we" wouldn't try to make every thread about. And about not being an elitist dick and going around bashing things. After the events that caused the rules to go up. So I tried to included as much as that this thread was not about be looking to be able to get shots in at Indie, but given my shitty way with words I felt I had better make everything VERY clear before I get my head cut off for phrasing something badly and a mod thinking I'm trying to be a dick.

I didn't feel I could express myself correctly without stating all those things to make sure it didn't get taken the wrong way. I specially did not want it to be seen as starting a thread just so I could say how much I disliked some indie. I've stated before that I like a good musical shouting match but it's very clear that such things will not be accepted on these boards, so I was making sure to point out I wasn't trying to start one.

Of course the fact I need to write all that stuff and post that means I didn't get across what I wanted too. Sorry

[MilkmanDan]

Nah, it's cool really. To be honest, I think most of the problems now come from people trying too hard to step round possible areas of flamage. I mean, I thought your example  was fine, and so when you got all defensive about it, it seemed un-nessecery and more like you were taking the piss out of the modding. Which pissed me off because I think the moddign is normally great. But whatever, I guess I'm the one being a dick here, and dragging the topic off on the first damn reply, so my bad.
Let's all just along, eh?

[Merkava]

I stopped reading after you said The Dismemberment Plan was boring, showed no musical skill, and was bland because right there, all credability was lost to me. It's ok if you don't like it, but to use outright lies to attack an album/band is just silly and pretty much negates that huge block of text you wrote.

I can not like something, but I also recogize good things about something I don't like. If I listen to some speedcore/death metal band, I'll be like "um, ok, I don't really like it, but hey, those guys can really play that guitar fast" or something of that sort. I don't go "they have no skill" because I know they have it, but show it in a different way. The Dismemberment Plan was made up of some great musicians, but what I like is when bands like that show restraint instead of wankering off into the sunset with exploding guitar solos and 40-minute bridges. As the bandmembers of Mock Orange once said: "We had to expand out of just playing fast tunes all the time, because then, that's all you can convey. Speed."

I'll never just go and say "OMG THIS SUCK HUR" if I don't like a genre/group. Things like "eh, this isn't really in my tastes" or "not my cup of tea" suffice for me and don't make you look like an assmuncher.

If I'm listening to something I don't really like, I deal with it. I listen to it, point out some good things to help me make it through the time I have to have it blaring through my ears. I had to listen to crunk for a day while haning around with my friends, and so, I dealt with it. I nodded my head to a beat or something simmilar.

Sorry if I look like an asshat here. I just wanted to get this out.

[KharBevNor]

Sorry, but I still don't get how you tell the difference between someone showing restraint, and someone showing little ability.

Anyway, that seemed like a tertiary criticism, as Robbo seemed to be more commenting on their uninspiredness.

Also, form != function. Any style of music can be used to convey any emotion, almost. It just takes a bit of know-how.

And also, that was just a minor example to illustrate why Robbo thought up this topic. To take his topic as discredited because he doesn't like your favourite band is petty, immature and dumb.

Anyway, lets get back on topic.

I do my best not to listen to stuff I don't like. I find that it normally tends to irritate me, especially if I'm tired.

[Inlander]

I grumble.  Especially when it's my housemate playing fucking Audioslave really loudly in the next room.

Seriously though, I think there are two kinds of "not liking" when it comes to music (or any other kind of art for that matter) - there's the not liking where you're instantly put off and can't stand to listen to it any more; and there's the not liking where it just doesn't grab you.  I've usually found that the first is an insurmountable problem (see the Audioslave comment above); the second, on the other hand, usually means I just need to listen to the music in question a bit more.  For instance, when I first listened to You Forgot it in People by Broken Social Scene I just couldn't get into it, especially given all the hype it'd received.  But I made myself listen to it a few more times, and it very quickly became one of my favourite albums.

[Robbo]

Merkava, to me is is VERY boring and bland and doesn't show anything musically interesting. And I listen to fucking SUNN O)))! So how come I can find a 15 min song, that has 1 riff played at about 20 bmp and reverbed and distorted a few dozen times, entertaining....yet I still find Indie boring? I'm pretty sure we've been over my reasons for not liking Indie hence my use of "blah blah blah" because everyone knows the Metalheads dislike for it and why.

EDIT: And as Inlander talked out above...Indie falls into that first type for me. I'd say there's some more ground of how much you dislike it. Maybe stuff you don't really like, but you'll dance to it in a club or at a party, but wouldn't spend any money on it, etc.

Now, I really can't stand Indie, but I at least make the effort to pay attention to all these apprently great albums whem I hear them. Like I said, it's my love of the odd musically shouting match so I try to educate myself. I've sat through dozens of dull Hardcore albums to talk about stuff with Core kiddies, whatever. It's not something I go out of my way to do eveyone. I just know fair few people with a fair range of tastes and I try to take notice.

Would you rather I was the stereo type of the 1D Metalhead that just listens to Heavy, Thrash, Power Metal and nothing else? And just called everything crap without listening?

[Oerdin]

I like to listen to music a couple of times before I write it off as something I don't like.  Sometimes an intial dislike grows on you a bit and you start to like it after you've gotten a chance to understand the music better.  I was like this with a lot of Archetecture in Helsinki's stuff (and intially some of The Fiery Furnaces stuff) but once I over came my intial "this isn't my type of music" and actually just sat down and listened to the CD a few times through I decided the music wasn't as bad as I originally thought.

[Se7en]

My reaction to music i dont like differs, according to the reason i dont like it.

I often dislike music because of really bad singing, like modest mouses early stuff. Nasal and whiney vocals really piss me off, and its put me off a lot of things. In that instance, the music just grates on my ears, and i turn it off. It doesnt matter how good the rest of the band are, the singers pissed all over it, and its not enjoyable to me anymore.

When things just arnt my taste, such as metal, my reactions different. I just dont hear most of the music, it just becomes drumming and static, and i am totaly emotionally detached from it. i can easily tune out most metal, and ignore it totaly.

When its house or one of its many variants, its just noise pollution, and it gets on my nerves, like workmen digging up the street outside my window with pnumatic drills. If its loud enough to break my concentration on whatever im doing, it makes me angry, because i have a fairly short fuse.

[Merkava]

Sorry, but I still don't get how you tell the difference between someone showing restraint, and someone showing little ability.

Anyway, that seemed like a tertiary criticism, as Robbo seemed to be more commenting on their uninspiredness.

Also, form != function. Any style of music can be used to convey any emotion, almost. It just takes a bit of know-how.

And also, that was just a minor example to illustrate why Robbo thought up this topic. To take his topic as discredited because he doesn't like your favourite band is petty, immature and dumb.

Anyway, lets get back on topic.

I do my best not to listen to stuff I don't like. I find that it normally tends to irritate me, especially if I'm tired.

No. I never said the topic was discredited, only that he was to me. Like I said, I can deal with him not liking them, but he used things like "they have no musical ability" and "boring and uninspired" to hate on them, which I thought was stupid and immature because it seemed like he was grasping at straws. If he had just said "I didn't like it" or "the type of playing didn't really appeal to me" than I would understand. Honestly, I've calmed down since then. I understand that you don't like Indie, it's just that it set off my BS detector when you try and pass it off like it's fact.

The Plan was groundbreaking, man.

@ Khar: It's basically the difference between George Harrison and, say, Billy Joel Armstrong. George, you can tell, is one great guitarist, but he never really showed off too much. He had bursts of coolness that didn't overpower the music. BJA, you can tell, isn't a great guitarist. He doesn't even try to do anything but the simple chord progression or apreggio. It's kind of hard to describe; it's more something felt because you've been familliarized with it. If I listened to, say Steve Vai my whole life, someone like George Harrison would seem lame and bland to me. It's really a territorial thing, as you said, which I now truley understand after some thought. Guess I kind of dismantled much of my argument. XP

No hard feelings. I was out of place there.

Anyway, end of argument.

I agree with Imander. I have found groups that I have gradually warmed up to (At the Drive-In) and groups that I still can't listen to that I am immediately put off by (Yo La Tengo).

[Not An Addict]

I grumble. Especially when it's my housemate playing fucking Audioslave really loudly in the next room.

And here's where that "look on the bright side, give the music a chance" thing goes right out the window. There is nothing good about Audioslave. At all. Anyone who says otherwise is dead fucking wrong.

Er, sorry. When it comes to bad music, ideally, I just shut it off. If I can't (say I'm at work and too busy to flip the station), I do my best to tune it out. It's hard, though, because whenever there's music playing, I can't help but focus on it. It's like my mind zeroes in on the music and everything else gets sidelined, which is why I can't write and listen to music at the same time. So tuning out is hard for me, especially if the music is awful. I just grit my teeth and bear it.

[heretic]

i'd rather listen to bad music i've never heard before, then stuff i know i don't like. just the other day i was in a friends car and weezer came on. he said , "ohh, i like this song." so i listened. after about a minute i said "in my opinion this sucks." he said i could change it, but i left it to hear the whole sucky song. and i ended up hearing a slightly entertaining riff. i try to listen to bad music all the way through before i finalize my decision to not listen to it again.

also, i'd like to point out that not liking indie is a little wierd, as indie just means independant, and does not correspond to any particular sound. so if you actually don't like independant music, i feel bad for you, because you are being told what to like by the big four.

[dps]

It depends on the circumstances and why I'm listening to something I don't like.  For example, where I work, we have country music piped in.  Country is really not my thing at all, but I can't get away from it there, so I just phase it out.  On the other hand, if my mom is listening to music I don't like, I can generally just leave the room--she won't care--but if my girlfriend is listening to music I don't like, I just sort of grin and bear it.  Fortunately, the gf and I agree on a lot of music--it's one of the things that got us together in the first place--but her tastes are broader than mine (which seems strange to me, cause I think of myself as someone who has rather broad musical tastes).

[Kai]

also, i'd like to point out that not liking indie is a little wierd, as indie just means independant, and does not correspond to any particular sound. so if you actually don't like independant music, i feel bad for you, because you are being told what to like by the big four.

"I’d better head the “but indie’s not a genre!” nerds off at the pass: shut up, you. Don’t pretend not to know exactly what I’m talking about when I say “indie rock.” It means white kids with guitars playing slapdash lo-fi pop songs about spatulas."
 - Dr. David Thorpe.

Seriously. Shut up.

[KharBevNor]

Nigh on all my fave bands are on indpendent record labels. If Roadrunner (and thusly the mighty 3 Inches of Blood) hadn't sold their souls, it would probably be all of them, the top 20 anyway.

And I hate indie rock.