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[Kai]

I just think it's stupid that the most serious thing you have to get pissed about is someone liking the same music as you. Oh god forfuckingbid.

Let's just end the thread right here.

[The Wombat]

I don't research on these sites like pitchfork to find what indie bands are "popular" or "selling out".  I dont know what direction the indie scene is going, nor, frankly, do I care. What I do is, I find a band I like, and listen to them. That's it.  I began hating what was being played on the radio, so I branched out and started reaching out to this music scene that was actually putting out quite a few good artists. And because if it, I found great bands, even though a few of those bands are what some people may consider more "indie-popular" bands, like pavement or iron and wine or the arcade fire.

[heretic]

also, i really have no desire to listen to arcade fire. i don't like them. mainstreamers can have em

[Kid Modernist]

I saw Arcade Fire play on Conan and fell in love with the song Laika, got the album and thought it was pretty boring and put it away, then like a week ago I put it back in and was surprised at how good it was.

[sp2]

I haven't been to the forum for a long while, but I can immidiately see why the hell everyone despises... ummmm... certain members.

Me too.  They lack a sense of humor.

If you're pretty sure that Coldplay is hell GET AN OPINION AS TO WHY.  
Don't just be jealous that Christ Martin snagged Gweneth Paltrow.

Coldplay is one of the most banal and untalented bands out there (Interpol are another one of those bands).  That would be fine if they wrote more than one song, but they don't.  They write the same song over and over again, and they've filled what, 3, 4 albums full of this shit?  Soundwise, they cultivate a sound that is so generic and soulless and intentionally inoffensive that it should be offensive to anyone who actually gives a shit about music.  They basically were a response to the "oh man, early Radiohead was awesome until they got all experimental" whining that took place after Kid A was released, and they basically just rip off Creep over and over and over and over and over.  The fact that they are one of the biggest bands out there right now is not a testament to their quality, but rather a testament to exactly how bland and tasteless they are.  They are a brand-name like McDonald's...they release insipid and uninspiring music, but no one is disappointed when they listen to a Coldplay song because every song is the same and no one's expecting something with a lot of soul, they're just expecting another shitty piano ballad with new lyrics but pretty much the same music.  Fuck, the Beatles at least tried new things and yes, somme fo their stuff sucked ass, but a lot of their experiments were very worthwhile.  This is the case with many of the truly talented popular megabands...they at least try new things.  Coldplay has a formula and every song fits the formula, and they don't try new things.

You can try new things and still play soft alternative piano ballads.  You can change things up a bit.  But every Coldplay is the same, and listening to a Coldplay album is like being locked in an elevator playing shitty elevator music for the duration of the album.  That right there is music hell.

They really are the McDonald's of the music world....ubiquitous, but bland and ultimately bad for your health.

[grrraham]

Chris Martin gave me syphilis.

[Kid Modernist]

For some reason I'm so glad that I'm not an indie snob with any cred.

Whether you are one or not, every indie snob says that.

[salada]

i think a degree of "indie snobbery" is justified, and possibly unavoidable.

as things become popular, they invariably become diluted/changed/distorted. this is largely unavoidable: to appeal to a broader fanbase, you'll probably have to strip back some of the stuff that a lot of people disagree with. eventually, you get rid of all the interesting stuff, and end up with coldplay. offensively inoffensive, or something.

 it happens pretty much everywhere. you know, "i like their earlier stuff so much better", that sort of thing.

[Gryff]

also, i really have no desire to listen to arcade fire. i don't like them. mainstreamers can have em

It amuses me that people think that the Arcade Fire are mainstream. Really, most people have never heard of them.

THEY GOT A GOOD REVIEW ON PITCHFORK?! SELLOUTZ!!!*

I like Pitchfork, but I appreciate that they are pretentious, elitist asses. It is just a review site, and I take everything they say with a grain of salt. I can see how, if you don't agree with them a lot of the time, you could get annoyed by their elitist personas, but seriously just chill. I disagree with them a lot too but they've still switched me on to lots of good music.

*apologies to Mitch Clem

[sp2]

It amuses me that people think that the Arcade Fire are mainstream. Really, most people have never heard of them.

They have videos on regular rotation on various music television channels, they sell out large mainstream music venues, they get rave reviews in mainstream music mags, I'd call that mainstream.

[Inlander]

That brings up another issue in the whole stupid mainstream/indie thing: a band may get saturation coverage in the U.S. (as sp2 suggests), but be almost unheard of in New Zealand (from where Gryff is posting).  Take another example: Paul Kelly.  Mainstream as mainstream can be here in Australia (by which I mean not that he's crap - he isn't - but that he's a household name), but of only specialist interest anywhere else.

[Gryff]

The Arcade Fire would only really get played on University Radio here, and the only time I've seen their music videos has been on specialist "alternative" programs on our music channel (of which there are very, very few).

I guess I don't really know what the situation is like in the states. What, are they being heavily played on MTV or something?

[tigerlily]

For some reason I'm so glad that I'm not an indie snob with any cred.

Whether you are one or not, every indie snob says that.

haha.  sadly, i'm about as uncool as i'm sure sp2 thinks i am.
i kinda like it though.  no expectations to live up to!  woo!!

[Kid Modernist]

I'm not really a snob, but I admit to thinking people have shit taste if they have an abundace of really bad bands. But I mostly say "I think those bands are crap" not so much "Those bands suck"...

I don't know how you get cred, but that doesn't matter as long as you throw up the horns when you are rockin.

[tigerlily]

exactly.  it's the I THINK, or IN MY OPINION that make the world of a difference.


damn.  i gotta get me some horns apparently...

[grrraham]

I guess I don't really know what the situation is like in the states. What, are they being heavily played on MTV or something?

I don't know about in the states but they are on much music.

[ALoveSupreme]

man there's seriously nothing I hate more than sellout threads.

Havent you been reading nothnig nice?

There's also nothing I hate more than threads about how no one else is good enough to find the music you found a year ago other than you.  How worthless.

[Patatat]

Oh, you bleeding hearts always bring a smile to my face.

Bleeding heart my ass.  I just think it's stupid that the most serious thing you have to get pissed about is someone liking the same music as you.  Oh god forfuckingbid.

It feels like they're stealing it from me...My enjoyment of the album.

"I can't like it unless everyone else likes it for the same reason."  Yeah, good reason.  Also, the "they are ruining it for me so they shouldn't enjoy music I like" thing is so fucking lame.

Indie's like a depressing label for bands that want to make it but can't, and everytime you call yourself an indie kid, it's like you're mocking their efforts, and willing them to fail!

I'm going to ignore the obvious troll, but...

It's pretty possible to make it big even on an independant label.  A major label may be a quick in, but you get screwed if you're not really savvy.

But GOD FORBID that I EVER listen to a Coldplay song and ACTUALLY ENJOY IT.

Because that, according to all that I've ever come across here, would pretty much send me straight to music hell.

I'm pretty sure Coldplay IS music hell.

I didn't say that you fucking ass fuck. Its not the thing I worry about the most, its just something I talk about on A GOD FORBID MUSIC FUCK FORUM!

I love how you are trying to take everything, I say and fucking twist it.

I never said a thing about fucking selling out, I could give two shits about it. I am talking about the fucktard fans that come with a band making it big, they bother me. Sorry, I am not too much of an elitist fuck to not have to deal with these kids.

[neomang5]

Ok, Patatat, RELAX...
I think youre overreacting a little bit.
I personally agree with sp2 on his first 2 statements, and some of his 3rd.
But heres the thing...
If YOU like a band, why the hell do you care what OTHER people think of it? Are you really that wrapped up in indie cred that you cant enjoy a band because its good, but now it has to be practically anonymoous too? I mean, hell you should be happy theyre getting more fans, as it means PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
Chill out, Its not the end of the world if a band picks up a fanbase of annoying newbs. As long as they keep up te good music, you shouldnt care.

[KharBevNor]

Just all listen to bands that will never attract hordes of annoying newbish listeners! I started one this morning, it's me on jugs, and my sister hitting a dustbin with a stick. We're totally avant.

[Patatat]

Ok, Patatat, RELAX...
I think youre overreacting a little bit.
I personally agree with sp2 on his first 2 statements, and some of his 3rd.
But heres the thing...
If YOU like a band, why the hell do you care what OTHER people think of it? Are you really that wrapped up in indie cred that you cant enjoy a band because its good, but now it has to be practically anonymoous too? I mean, hell you should be happy theyre getting more fans, as it means PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
Chill out, Its not the end of the world if a band picks up a fanbase of annoying newbs. As long as they keep up te good music, you shouldnt care.

Once again, you are misunderstanding me. I am not wrapped up in any form of indie cred, and I dont care about them having more fans. I am simply displaying my irratation of idiots saying they like something, when they are only doing it because tehy are told to. It just annoys me, it doesn't matter if its a band I like or its a band I hate. It bothers me either way.

[neomang5]

Just all listen to bands that will never attract hordes of annoying newbish listeners! I started one this morning, it's me on jugs, and my sister hitting a dustbin with a stick. We're totally avant.

But Khar, by telling us, we might enjoy it, and ruin your indie cred possibility! Oh noes!

@patatat: Im just saying what i saw. It seemed to me that you were ranting and raving because you were upset that bands were now all popular. As for the mindless listeners, WHO CARES? I mean yeah, they may be annoying, but ignore them and they'll go away, and the true fans will still be around, and then you wont have to yell and swear about it.

[KharBevNor]

Don't worry. We split up this afternoon. She went off to find herself in india, I descended into drugs and alchoholism, then blew my brains out with a shotgun.

I got better though.

[sp2]

I am talking about the fucktard fans that come with a band making it big, they bother me. Sorry, I am not too much of an elitist fuck to not have to deal with these kids.

Get over it.  There are fucktard fans who like bands that aren't well known.  The uber-hipsters who think they're better than you because they saw a band before their breakthrough album are just as fucking annoying as the idiot mainstreamers who pretend to be those hipsters.  Frankly, I'd rather deal with the mainstreamers...they shut the fuck up when you point out that they get their clothes at the Gap or Hot Topic.

And at least they fucking dance at a concert.  I hate going to an awesome concert and everyone's just nodding their fucking heads.

[Hatebunny]

Wasn't so much a troll as a truthful joke...

that said, I admit that my opinions are often ridculously closed-minded and often ignorant, but I just don't flippin' care. I like music how I like it, and if I don't want other people listening to the music I like, then I'm just a more extreme version of everyone else.

[KharBevNor]

I would seriously love more people to listen to the same music as me. Really, really love it, so much. It completely sucks how little recognition some of my favourite bands have got. I'd totally love just if all the little gothlets were wearing Edge of Sanity shirts instead of Opeth. But that would be a paradox, as it would mean they'd have to have brains and taste.

[Kai]

If everyone loved The Residents the world would be a very strange place. and totally awesome.

[Patatat]

I agree with Khar and would love for intelligent people, to genuinly enjoy the bands I like so I can talk music with them.

[Hatebunny]

I would seriously love more people to listen to the same music as me. Really, really love it, so much. It completely sucks how little recognition some of my favourite bands have got. I'd totally love just if all the little gothlets were wearing Edge of Sanity shirts instead of Opeth. But that would be a paradox, as it would mean they'd have to have brains and taste.

It's a bit of a paradox. I want them to understand that their music sucks, but because they like the sucky music, I don't want them to listen to mine too.

[captainawesome]

Plus, what the fuck is a major label vs an independant label?  Is Sub Pop an independant or a major label?

Please do your research before spouting obscenity filled ignorance (Not that I have a problem with obscenities, only when they're coupled with ignorance).  A major record label is one which is an affiliate of the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America), while an Independent label is one which is, well, independent of the RIAA.

Thought I might clear that up for you.

Also, out of curiousitiy, why do you feel the need to be such an ass about hings?Is it really necessary to lash out at every person who has a opinion that's not yours?  It takes a far more mature person to say "Hey, I disagree with you, and here's why:" than to say "FUCK YOU, YOU ARE WRONG YOUR DICK IS SMALL"

[Kai]

I find that SP2, as much of an asshole as he can be, brings up some points that need to be brought up, as soon as we bury the hatchet on the Pitchfork is pretentious.

[Kid Modernist]

Please do your research before spouting obscenity filled ignorance (Not that I have a problem with obscenities, only when they're coupled with ignorance). A major record label is one which is an affiliate of the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America), while an Independent label is one which is, well, independent of the RIAA.

You shouldn't call him ignorant and then spout off your opinion like it is fact.

[Kai]

I just saw that post. Seriously, not everybody knows exactly what defines an independent label, asshole. I didn't even know exactly. And where the hell are you supposed to tell which labels are affiliated with the RIAA?

[KharBevNor]

I always thought an indie label was one not owned by the big four (Sony BMG Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group, EMI Group, Warner Music Group)?

[Kai]

I think the big four bought out some little independent labels, so it's actually fucking hard to tell. Like, I think Interscope is a majoy label, but what the hell do I know?

[KharBevNor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interscope

"Interscope Records is a record label currently owned by the Universal Music Group."

Wikipedia also has pretty comprehensive lists of the corporate assets of most major media companies, the major sub-labels of the big four, and a list of independent record labels judged by the crieteria of not being owned by the big four.

[captainawesome]

Big 4 = RIAA.

Every record label under the RIAA is owned by the big 4 record labels, I'm fairly sure.

Also, sorry for being an ass. I apologize.

[Mrs. Firefly]

MUSIC for FUCKing

^ That is what Coldplay is.


Also, I heard an Arcade Fire song on the radio the other day, and I thought it was AWESOME. There was this whole mental double-take of, "Heey, I actually KNOW this song!" I sang along and pretended I knew how to drum.

(This is all I'm going to say on this topic, because I am OMGSOSCARED of pissing people off. I'm not being sarcastic. I like sing-alongs and twee pop.)

[sp2]

I think the big four bought out some little independent labels

A lot of them, really.  And even then, there are plenty of "indie" labels that still engage in business practices that I'd consider "sellout" quality.

I don't think it is right that a band have someone else outside the band itself exert any creative control over the band.  This includes producers.  Many indie labels still require that someone else produce the album.  I don't care if you're fucking Steve Albini, producers are all fucking scumbags.  If you're not creating sound, you're not a part of the band and shouldn't have any creative control.

This is why I question the validity of holding Sub Pop (or 4AD or whatever) up as some fucking godsend.  They're not.  Plenty of bands sell out on "indie" labels, and plenty of bands produce their own music and maintain creative control regardless of being on a major.  It's all a matter of how much the band really gives a shit about their music and how much they're willing to fight for creative control.


And I'm abrasive, not an asshole.  I'm not the one saying that mainstreamers shouldn't be allowed to like my favorite bands.  THAT is an asshole move.

[KharBevNor]

Why are producers even necessary in this wonder age of digital technology?

I mean, lets face it, producing music is not hard. I can do a pretty good job in Audacity, I'm sure with studio equipment it shouldn't be beyond anyone who knows the first thing about music. Which one would hope you did, if you were in a band.

[maxusy3k]

I think perhaps it may well reach a point where somebody comes up and says 'hey... if you let me dick about with your songs, I can make you sell so many more albums!'.

[sp2]

Well, the thing is, producers don't just focus on recording quality, they also often have a say in which songs make it onto an album, and how those songs are played on the album.  Basically, it's their job to smooth out the rough edges to make the album as sales-friendly as possible.  This is, in my opinion, wrong.  I don't really see any viable reason to have a producer that outweighs the fact that someone who isn't contributing to the band's sound has a say about what goes on the album.

Holyshit, I'm hungover.

[est]

i agree totally with that.  i was in a band when i was younger.  if some cunt twiddling dials tried to tell us what to put on our fucking record we wouldn't have been very happy.

also, i think that that's one of the nicest posts i've seen you make, dude.  you should be hungover more often.

[sp2]

Tell that to my liver.  And my wallet.  Both suffered last night.  Plus, the bars last night were full of rejects who couldn't get tickets to the Alkaline Trio concert and then had to drink off the diappointment.  There were some really hilarious Hot Topic goths (one who was trying to dance or something to some Thrill Kill Kult I tossed in the jukebox) and a lot of gothcore chicks as well, which made me laugh oh so hard.

It's just funny when there are all these kids that are trying really really really really really hard to be punk but my musical tastes are more punk than they'll ever be, and I don't even dress the part.

I guess that's one thing going for hipsters.  If they dress like a hipster, they probably at least do care about the music.  I think that's mainly because no self-respecting person would think that dressing like a hipster is cool.

[est]

i am pretty sure that try-hards are present and amusing no matter where one lives.  it's like a universal constant.

[sp2]

I just think Hot Topic Goths are the funniest thing ever in the history of life.  I mean, seriously, don't be that guy.

Anyways, everyone knows you dance to industrial with your whole body.  You don't just spin your hands around a little bit.  It's no fun until you break someone's nose with the back of your head.

[SpacemanSpiff]

This includes producers.  Many indie labels still require that someone else produce the album.  I don't care if you're fucking Steve Albini, producers are all fucking scumbags.  If you're not creating sound, you're not a part of the band and shouldn't have any creative control.

Though isn't this what Steve Albini does? He pretty much just does the tech for them, he considers himself a "recording engineer" instead of a produce as far as I'm aware. If the band fucks up, you'll hear it on the record. If the band is good, you'll also hear it.
You can rent Electrical Audio and produce yourself, Steve or someone else of the staff will just make sure you won't break the equipment.

Personally, I think a producer who makes the music sound like every other piece he has produced is useless (though I guess necessary for some bands to produce a decent album at all), but a good recording engineer can be damn helpful. If I could choose, I would record my album with analog only, it sounds better. And I know I couldn't handle all this tech from the start, so at least a recording engineer would be helpful.

That said, many bands I listen to simply produce themselves so it's not even a question there.

[KharBevNor]

Anyways, everyone knows you dance to industrial with your whole body.  You don't just spin your hands around a little bit.  It's no fun until you break someone's nose with the back of your head.

I suspect he/she was trying a mangled version of the light-bulb-screwy-floor-wipey-etc. goth dance. Which you should only ever really break out for This Corrosion unless you really know what you're doing.

That is also, interestingly, how you can tell if someone's really goth. You just point at them and go 'hey now, hey now now'. If they continue, then they can be in the goth club, and have their secret decoder ring.

What am I saying, I'm not even goth! I listen to more goth music than five teenygoths welded together though.

[Kid Modernist]

Here's how you gothic dance: http://www.antigravitypress.com/gothic.htm

I think producers also tell you if what you have is decent or not. They have been around a while and will be able to tell you unbaised if a song is shit or not. It is definitely for more sales though. I would say a producer is a evil you will always get for having someone PAY to put YOUR music out there. I would just work to get him to do as little as possible.

[sp2]

I think producers also tell you if what you have is decent or not. They have been around a while and will be able to tell you unbaised if a song is shit or not. It is definitely for more sales though. I would say a producer is a evil you will always get for having someone PAY to put YOUR music out there. I would just work to get him to do as little as possible.

Seriously, though, is that what you really want?  Some fuckhole telling you if your music will or will not make a bunch of bank in today's music scene?  If you write a song, and you like it, and you want it on your album, then why the fuck shouldn't it be on that album?

And a producer's opinion is never unbiased.  It is always biased by what's big in the scene right now and what will sell records.  If you do some softer poppy indie rock stuff and also some heavier highly discordant art rock, really, what do you think a producer's going to tell you to stick with on the album?

If you're going to be working with recording, then you should learn the recording equipment.  It's as easy as that.  You shouldn't hire some fucktwit to get all involved in your music.  Know your equipment and how to use it properly (and how to abuse it properly if you're playing that sort of music) and do it all yourself.  Keep someone who has no personal investment in your band besides his cut of the profits out of the picture.

There are labels out there that don't pressure you to have a producer.  Go to one of them.