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[mrfinch]

The US have decided to make it illegal to have websites chock full of tabs/sheet music and lyrics under copyright laws.

As a music fan I find this a bit too far and have thus written this critical thinking "rant" (here)


If you could find a spare moment to read it, comment on how you feel and pass it on that'd be great. I am not asking for you to tell the world, even if you tell a few friends to do the same and then pass it on, that'd be great!


Thanks to all that do read it!

[Radiowar]

One other point about lyrics sites is that they allow people to discover songs by artists that they could only remember a few words from after hearing on the radio, or something like that. So yeah, this is stupid and the music industry is just shooting itself in the foot again.

[Paper Beats Rock]

One other point about lyrics sites is that they allow people to discover songs by artists that they could only remember a few words from after hearing on the radio, or something like that. So yeah, this is stupid and the music industry is just shooting itself in the foot again.

That's normally how I find out who a song is by before I download it.

[Oli]

Blah

That's normally how I find out who a song is by before I download it.

That kinda defeats the argument though, eh...

[Micolithe]

That's normally how I find out who a song is by before I download it.

True. But you also need to know who a song is by before you buy it.

[Tomservo]

This is ridiculous, but it'll probably be hard to enforce

[Thrillho]

It makes sense. So does clamping down on illegal MP3s. It's just the law. People can't get pissed over someone stopping them breaking the law.

[Razzen]

Explain how posting lyrics is against the law?

[RUMBLEMOOSE]

Lyrics are copyrighted material, just like music is. Reprinting lyrics without express written consent of the songwriter is illegal. Usually they've just turned a blind eye to it on the Internet because it's not hurting record sales, nobody is attempting to steal credit for the lyrics, and it's helping people find music they only slightly know (as seen above).

But frankly, with the amount of obnoxious popup ads on most of those sites, I say good riddance.

[Der Golem]

I am quite WTF'ed by this. Most of the stuff I like to play I can't find anywhere but on the net. Banning the distribution of something that isn't even being sold anywhere is stupid. I think a much more logical thing to do would be to remove any tabs that the respective artist/record company would request to be removed.

It makes sense. So does clamping down on illegal MP3s. It's just the law. People can't get pissed over someone stopping them breaking the law.

Just watch me.

[kikanjuuneko]

I do have a slight beef with your wording, though: it's not the US that has decide to "make it illegal", but the Music Publishers Association that has decided to start taking action. Either way, I think it's fucking ridiculous, and I have the quotes to prove it, courtesy of BoingBoing and the BBC:

MPA president Lauren Keiser said he wanted site owners to be jailed.

...

Mr Keiser said he did not just want to shut websites and impose fines, saying if authorities can "throw in some jail time I think we'll be a little more effective".

...

"The Xerox machine was the big usurper of our potential income," he said. "But now the internet is taking more of a bite out of sheet music and printed music sales so we're taking a more proactive stance."

Also, getting to the core of the problem, from the same BBC article:

"But most of the bands I listen to don't have tab books to buy so if you get them online, that's the only way you can really learn it unless you work it out yourself."

Have these douchebags even looked at a tab site lately? 99% of all the tabs available are for music that doesn't get sheets or tab books released. This is ridiculous.

[Paper Beats Rock]

That kinda defeats the argument though, eh...

Yes...that's the point.

That's normally how I find out who a song is by before I download it.

True. But you also need to know who a song is by before you buy it.

Yeah, but the way I see it the people who are likely to use the internet to find a song name are more likely to use the internet to get a song.  A better idea would be for more adverts to put the names of the artists and songs at the bottom, that way the casual viewer would know who it is.

[Kid Modernist]

I think it's silly to worry about this deal. Did enforcing sharing mp3s as illegal activity stop it?

[Paper Beats Rock]

This might make it more difficult to get lyrics and tabs, as they're available on websites at the moment and they won't be if this thing goes through.

[Kid Modernist]

A non-American website should do the trick. If you're afraid of this, save the pages to your harddrive, also.

[Paper Beats Rock]

There are ways of blocking websites from being seen in certain countries.  For example, when I go to this page-

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/home.do

it says that the page is intended only for access from within the united states.  In this case I don't think they'll bother blocking all non-American sites that contain lyrics, it would just take too much effort.

[RUMBLEMOOSE]

At one point, weren't they talking about sueing stores that sold used CDs because the artists weren't getting any royalties from the sales? Maybe this will be one of those things that just kind of evaporates when the litigators sit down with a chart comparing cost of litigation and current lost royalties and realize hey, we'd be losing hundreds of millions of dollars.

And is it even possible to go to jail for copyright infringement? I think the most severe penalties provided for by US copyright law is something like $2,500 per incident.

[elcapitan]

Mxtabs.net claims to have 104,264 tabs online at the moment. At $2,500 per infringement, that's a potential $260,660,000 fine. Yopsa.

[lastclearchance]

The only way I could buy this argument would be if they only enforced this against tabs for which tab books have been or are in the process of being printed.

[a pack of wolves]

It makes sense. So does clamping down on illegal MP3s. It's just the law. People can't get pissed over someone stopping them breaking the law.

Yes they can if the law is a bad one, which so many are. I'm constantly pissed off by being prevented from breaking the law.

I have a feeling this crackdown will never happen since I can't imagine these websites take away that much revenue and certainly not enough to justify the cost of large-scale legal action. Then again, they might find it justifiable just on the principle of it. You never can tell.

[KharBevNor]

And as half these sites operate out the Ukraine anyway, who's gonna be suing?

[Thrillho]

Come to think of it, half of the 'official' tab books are wrong anyway.

[Radiowar]

Mxtabs.net claims to have 104,264 tabs online at the moment. At $2,500 per infringement, that's a potential $260,660,000 fine. Yopsa.

Well...consider that lots of them are incorrect, there are many songs with multiple incorrect versions, and there are also drum tabs, and I've never seen an official drum tab book.

One other point about lyrics sites is that they allow people to discover songs by artists that they could only remember a few words from after hearing on the radio, or something like that. So yeah, this is stupid and the music industry is just shooting itself in the foot again.

That's normally how I find out who a song is by before I download it.

Whether you download or buy the song is really irrelevant. You didn't download because you found the lyrics, all the site really did was introduce you to an artist you didn't know before.

I think it's a lot harder to attribute album sales to how many sites have posted your lyrics instead of how many sites have posted bittorrents of the album.

Also, what about review sites that quote lines or sometimes entire verses? It's definitely a lot easier than saying "that line from 3:56-3:58". Or Songmeanings.net where lyrics are posted so people can discuss them?

[pat101]

the whole mp3 crackdown really didn't work did it? I mean I download around 3 or 4 whole albums today alone. So will they really be able to enforce this lyric thing?

[kikanjuuneko]

Well, it certainly looks easier to do than to nab mostly anonymous P2P users. Let's face it, a lot of these sites are pretty big (Mxtabs.net, Taborama.com) and getting the names behind them is a lot easier, too.

[RUMBLEMOOSE]

I wonder if tabs and lyrics would ever start running on an anonymous p2p-based system if this crackdown happened? It would certainly make them harder to catch, like Kikanjuuneko pointed out.

Plus, to track down a lyric site, all you have to do is Google "lyrics" and they all come up. There are about half a dozen really big ones, take those down and the rest would probably scatter.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Well...consider that lots of them are incorrect, there are many songs with multiple incorrect versions, and there are also drum tabs, and I've never seen an official drum tab book.

I know for a fact they exist, though they are pretty rare. There are some Metallica drum tabs book out there, for example.

Anyway, this wouldn't stop anyone from suing. It's still copyrighted material.

Apart from that, I guess what we'll see is that many sites will simply move their servers. I mean, tracker sites got shut down - so now we have sites like piratebay.org being hosted in Sweden, where it isn't illegal to host this stuff.
And I know that while hosting lyrics and I guess tabs over here is illegal, having a copy for private use on your harddisk can't prosecuted.

[sjbrot]

And as half these sites operate out the Ukraine anyway, who's gonna be suing?

Very true. Everyone knows that the Ukraine is the center for all illegal-tabbing activities.



These operations started out small in the beginning, have exploded over the past few years into large, underground operations. Old women work all day, listening to the new Turbonegro records and figuring out the tabs.

[Luke C]

Boooooooooooooooooooo!

Just Boooooooooooooooooooo!

Thats all Ive got to say.