THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Kanno on 21 Jul 2005, 19:51
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Carrying this over from "Shitty Music"...
Aenema (forgot how to spell it) is an amazing song. I don't understand how anyone could not like it, nor this band.
They do stretch out their songs a little too much, and they have a bunch of misses, but when they do stay on mark it is an amazing thing.
Someone on the other topic mentioned their lyrics being generally soul-less? Please... Every major tool fan I know thinks maynard is some kind of god for the stuff he writes. Plus, his lyrics can be open to many different interpretations, but still stay meaningful. Every song I've heard (from Tool) is usually chock full of emotion.
Danny Carey = Obviously not the best drummer in the world, but I would still put him in the realm of great drummers.
Discuss!
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I deleted the only tool album I had as I didn't really like them, and needed space, but lets just make some general points:
1)Tool,and members thereof, are ceaselessly overhyped to a tedious degree.
2) Lyrical gods do not use the phrase 'fuck you in your fucking ass', or write songs about transgendered prostitutes. Never.
3) Listen to some real prog.
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Tool is decent enough, but most of their fanbase are people who want to act musically literate but aren't, and thus don't have access to the good stuff because they don't really care.
It's really no surprise that most Tool fans are either high school kids or, well, tools.
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I like both Tool and A Perfect Circle, and yes I think Maynard is both a great singer and lyricist. But I can understand how their artiness might piss somebody off, sometimes it's difficult to know if they are sincere or not, most of the time I think they are both. While I don't consider myself a fan in the strictest sense, I think they deserve whatever recognition they get...
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I am a fan of Tool and APC (more so the latter) but really, who can argue whether lyrics are deep or significant or not. The beauty of language is the allowance for individual interpretation.
And in APC, Geordie White is pretty... and talented.
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I love Tool so much it hurts but I agree that some of the fans are the most obnoxiously pretentious shits on the earth 'like omg maynard is telling me to think for myself and question authority and cause maynard told me to do it i will.....' (anyone see the irony in that) I have all their albumns of course and I can see how some people might here a song like stinkfist and not think much of maynrads lyrical abilities but thats just a muck around of a song ..... to appreciate tool you have to listen to somethin like Lateralus or the Live extended version of Push-It that was on Salival cause then you'll appreciate the true beauty in the music that they create. I still think Tool are the best band ever and can't wait for their new albumn *drools*
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My 2 favorite Tool songs are "46 & two" off their and ÆNIMA album, and "No Quarter" off Salival.
But I would like to agree that Tool fans tend to be self-riteous pretentious little pricks. That, and I really don't like some of the anti-christian lyrics in Tool (or APC, for that matter) although I still listen to some that I don't find offensive.
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+ 10 points for the tool inspired name
'let the rabbits wear glasses'
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Lyrical gods do not use the phrase 'fuck you in your fucking ass', or write songs about transgendered prostitutes. Never.
Garbage's "Cherry Lips" demands an apology, sir.
As for Tool, the only song I've heard is that "I know the pieces fit" one, which...I think is kinda catchy. The bass riff, anyway.
[Cleanses self.]
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I don't like Tool's music, however they aren't talentless.
Plus the lyrics on Lateralis (might have splled that wrong) are pretty good.
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I haven't listened to enough Tool to have a fair opinion of them, but I will say this ...
Their syncing of the "Lateralus" album and "The Nightmare Before Christmas" was fucking SWEET. Anyone who's got "Lateralus" and "The Nightmare Before Christmas" should play them simultaneously (get the music to start as the opening credits do) with the mute on the TV. It is preferable to be in some sort of altered state for this, but not really necessary. A lot of people know about the "Dark SIde of Oz" thing with "Dark Side of the Moon" by Pink Floyd and The WIzard of Oz, but this is even better.
Outside of seeing that, I'm not really qualified to pass judgement on Tool, so I'm going to refrain from doing so.
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But I can understand how their artiness might piss somebody off, sometimes it's difficult to know if they are sincere or not, most of the time I think they are both.
I know why people don't like Mars Volta, but we're talking about Tool here.
No, seriously. Tool are cool and all (I used to be a huge fan in, well, high school), but if you think they're "arty" you're really not right. The Residents are arty. Blonde Redhead are arty. Mars Volta can pass for arty. Devotchka (you've never heard of them, but you should look into them anyways) are arty. Tool, yeah, not arty. The guitar and bass parts, while sometimes technical, are very conventional. The vocals are conventional. The drum beats are certainly interesting and in strange time signatures, but they are for the most part, conventional prog or tribal beats. Art rock implies NONconventional music, and Tool just doesn't do that.
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Perhaps by "arty" s/he meant "melodramatic." A lot of people like melodrama in their music (I am one, or else I wouldn't love Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness) but the first word that comes to mind is "arty". Art-rock is just another descriptor like emo that gets thrown around.
And I can understand some people liking Tool for its melodrama. They create a type of melodramatic rock that isn't bad and that for many people really speaks to them. (Yeah, I know how cliched that sounds, but I can't find a better way of putting it.)
What I don't understand is the fanatical devotion of Tool's fans. I think that's why it's so divided. People who like Tool are more likely to insist that they're the best band ever, and so people that don't like Tool are more likely to react by actively disliking Tool.
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I wouldn't really call Tool melodramatic. But whatever. Pretentious, sure. But melodramatic? Not really.
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using the word 'Melodramatic' instantly brings to my mind Jack Off Jill and Queen Adreena. Both bands I like quite a bit, as it happens, but still.
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I think I disagree with sp2's definition of arty. Does anyone really think art must eschew pop-convention entirely? There is such a term as "pop-art" after all.
I had a Tool phase for awhile and still dig them quite a bit. While I've certainly given Aenima enough spins to last me the rest of my life, you can't deny that it has the goods where it counts. It rocks, which is more than I can say for any prog album (real prog is for wankers). I think their lyrics are ambiguously cheeky for the express purpose of avoiding the irony of telling their fans what to do while encouraging independent thought. I think Tool's lyrics are occaisionally worth interpreting which is more than I can say for any black metal band. I'm not really impressed with their ability to conjure morbid, often nationalistic imagery based on an imagined past again and again (that said, I like some black metal).
In conclusion, it is far more pretentious to dump on Tool than to be in to Tool (or to be Tool for that matter).
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Anyone saying Real Prog can't rock should listen to Space Metal by Star One. Now. 'Set Your Controls' pours petrol over your arguments, and 'Intergalactic Space Crusaders' throws the match.
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I might just have to give it a listen although even if I do agree that it rocks, its proginess surely does not contribute to said rockin.
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The Residents are arty. Blonde Redhead are arty. Mars Volta can pass for arty.
Sure you can point out bands that are more "arty" than Tool, but that does not mean they are not in some sense arty. What I meant when I said "artiness" might be what you mean when you say prog, since prog in my book mostly implies artiness...
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Arty defines art-rock, which is a genre of music. I'm not saying that music that isn't art-rock isn't art, I'm saying it's not art-rock.
Does this make any sense?
Please please please say yes.
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I might just have to give it a listen although even if I do agree that it rocks, its proginess surely does not contribute to said rockin.
Wait till you hear the solo section on 'Master of Darkness' where an entire light-saber fight is done with keyboards and then Darth fuckin' Vader comes in with an insane prog solo.
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I understand the distinction and perhaps I should have clarified that earlier. However, as I've heard the term applied, art-rock (the genre) still allows for conventional structures.
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It does, and as I said it would properly have been better if I had said prog, that's what I meant anyway.
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The Residents are arty. Blonde Redhead are arty. Mars Volta can pass for arty. Devotchka (you've never heard of them, but you should look into them anyways) are arty. Tool, yeah, not arty. The guitar and bass parts, while sometimes technical, are very conventional. The vocals are conventional. The drum beats are certainly interesting and in strange time signatures, but they are for the most part, conventional prog or tribal beats. Art rock implies NONconventional music, and Tool just doesn't do that.
Quoted for emphasis. (that and the part about the Residents, who totally rule and everyone should listen to them.)
And I need to look into Devotchka.
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And I need to look into Devotchka.
http://www.devotchka.net/
They're a Denver local band. Avant folk something or another. They're finally beginning to get some national press. Figured I'd pimp the local scene.
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Dammit! I just moved from Denver a year ago. Why don't I ever hear about these things?
EDIT: I'm reminded of some band I heard on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" or some other NPR program that involves Michael Feldman or whatever his name is, and couldn't remember the name. This may or may not be it, so.
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I just want to know why any self-respecting individual would leave Denver.
MOUNTAINS.
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My 2 favorite Tool songs are "46 & two" off their and ÆNIMA album, and "No Quarter" off Salival.
But I would like to agree that Tool fans tend to be self-riteous pretentious little pricks. That, and I really don't like some of the anti-christian lyrics in Tool (or APC, for that matter) although I still listen to some that I don't find offensive.
ive listened to a little tool, and yeah i like some of their stuff, but i havent heard enough to say that im a big fan or anything. im just wondering, is the No Quarter you mentioned a cover of the led zeppelin song, or their own song that happened to have the same name. just wondering because i swear i heard them do a cover of that song.... but maybe im just crazy.
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I like Tool, and resent being labelled a musical insophisticate because of that.
Seriously guys, please get off your high horse. If nothing else, respect them as an gateway to the no-doubt-superior forms of metal that some of you are into. (Kids who listen to Tool are more likely to like metal than kids who listen to Good Charlotte.)
The one thing I will agree with is an aversion to the more rabid Tool fans. (I mentioned in a thread a while ago the problems I have with these people.) But even so...
BTW, yes, Tool did cover Led Zeppelin's No Quarter.
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I can enjoy Tool to a point but I almost always feel that something is lacking. I hardly ever engage in discussions with wannabes or knowitalls though, it feels rather pointless.. which in turn is the reason why I had no idea there's Tool fanatics around.
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I find Tool's music enjoyable, although I don't think they're THE BEST BAND EVER!! or anything, just a rock band who make decent music. Interesting lyrics too.
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I just want to know why any self-respecting individual would leave Denver.
MOUNTAINS.
Parents moving so they can get into Real Estate.
Yeah, it blows.
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you guys got way ahead of me, and we're already offtopic a little.
Anyway:
Tool is pretty good. A lot of the early stuff bores me to tears and that's partially because the songs sounded the same. However, think back to almost any non-indie band's first full album. There's usually a certain sameness. If you take a look at Undertow, and then look at Lateralus, the difference is obvious. While undertow's a lot angrier, and full of stupid 'think for yourself' type sentiments, Lateralus has got a lot more interesting stuff lyrically AND musically. I'll admit that the music's not that complicated technically (It couldn't be...I mean...I can play it, and I suck.) However, the sound of it is just...diggity inexplicably endearing to me.
Sure, Maynard can sing, but his lyrics and his singing in tool are far overshadowed in both departments by his work in A Perfect Circle. I'd rather have introspective lyrics sung to me than superficial and unimaginitive (or just plain made up pretentious gobbledygook) screamed at me.
That said, there are several songs where maynard's singing shines through in Tool. 'Push it' is a good example.
While I enjoy A Perfect Circle more in terms of musicality, lyrics, and the arrangements (thanks billy), That satisfies one part of me, but when I just want to punch a hole through the wall, I'd rather be listening to Tool. I've yet to find an anger-driven band that's can handle singing instead of screaming, and some actual guitar riffs instead of speedcore and such. (Although, UltraSpank's a good alternative, and the singer sounds...similar.)
and, anticipating KarBevNor or sp2's retalliations, I put forward that no arguments against anything I've said here will change my mind. I like what I like, and I like how I like it.
edit: hooker with a penis isn't about transgendered prostitutes at all. It's about sellouts in the music industry. Sometimes we just need to say 'You can point that fuckin' finger up your ass.' It's a natural thing.
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APC is sorta shit. Nothing original whatsoever.
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Somebody oughtta restrain me:
You can point that fuckin' finger up your ass.
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No, seriously, don't start me on APC.
Really.
Don't go there.
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Please, Khar? Pretty please?
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No, seriously. I'm tabbing the Dr. Who theme here for guitar and bass. Transcribing such an elegant piece of music to such a base and degrading form is a painstaking task, and if I start ranting about the over-hyped, faux-political crap-heap of a pretentious alt. rock band that is APC, I will totally be derailed.
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personally i enjoyed "Counting Bodies Like Sheep To The Rythm Of The War Drums"
But I also enjoy that sound.
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No, seriously. I'm tabbing the Dr. Who theme here for guitar and bass.
Tabs are for pussies and wankers.
::smirks::
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I find them easier to read than sheet music, and the piano arrangement's damned shite for, well, anything actually.
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Tabs are for pussies and wankers.
::smirks::
Who shat in your weetbix today?
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Sarcasm doesn't really translate too well over the internet.
I have my own reasons for not liking tabs in certain situations, but that's neither here nor there.
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Oh I got your point,
No, but seriously, the piano arrangement is TOTAL SHIT. I gave up anyway. Made some of the old blackened industro-speedgrind we all so know and love.
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Sounds like a wise choice.
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Indeed.
I'll probably end up just doing my cover/remix based off a midi and samples anyway. Requires a minimum of effort and musicianship, just the way I like it.
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Play by ear, kids!
It's the way to be!
Also: I prefer Mer de Noms in terms of A perfect Circle. The political under/overtones in the music in the later albums were a bit invasive for me.
If I completely ignore that The Thirteenth Step is about getting over drugs, I can appreciate it too, but it's no where near on par with mer de noms. Admittedly, though...The french album title is a tad pretensious. Certainly, they're pretty base in terms of concepts and lyrics. Sure, they can't pull off any van halen style guitar shredding, but so what? I can identify with a normal level of lyrics and music, because I am just a normal person. I don't transcend reality, so why should I listen to music about transcending reality?
That said, I listen to tool for the music, not the lyrics...
THAT said, I don't see why I can't like what I like just because it appeals to me on a basic level. I don't have to have a reason for liking something, and I like tool, and I like a perfect circle, and I can't really explain why beyond what I've already said. They just cause me to feel a certain way, and I enjoy that.
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*laughs vigorously for a few minutes*
I can't believe that some people are too cool for TABS!!!
hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The HUMANITY!!! hahahahahahahaahaha!
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Everyone's too cool for tabs. They just haven't realized it yet.
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thou vapid strumpet.
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wow, another Graham from Canada.....I'm not the only one.
now, back on topic.
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I can't believe that some people are too cool for TABS!!!
There are situations where tabs are probably necessary. However, if you haven't at least put some time into trying to pick the song apart and play it by ear, then turning to tabs is a real wanker move. Playing by ear helps with various things, including understanding how the song is actually put together, which you can't always get from just reading tabs.
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Also, half the time, tabs are just plain...inaccurate.
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Playing by ear helps with various things, including understanding how the song is actually put together, which you can't always get from just reading tabs.
Yes you can, if you know anything about musical theory.
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Most people who are using tabs don't want to learn music theory and would rather just learn the damned green Day song.
I myself prefer sheet music, but eh. To each his own, stupid kid who wants a guitar for the scene points and then quits after 3 months.
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I like Maynard. I think he has one of the most lovely voices I've ever heard. I love APC, but Tool is somewhat lacking. What, I don't know. APC just sounds so good in my head. Mmm...APC. If music were edible they would be tasty! Like pie.
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I liked Tool early on in high school. Then I decided I liked APC more and Tool was not my cup of tea. Then I realised that I actually find APC to be very, very dull.
So I just gave up and now I don't care about either band.