Clinton will chip in for a motel room for the barkeep.
This arc needs an interlude. Let Pintsize give us an accounting of his whereabouts during the fire.
Eyebrow Girl? Give the poor woman a name!
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.I'm no psychologist, but I think she is still just in shock. The reality of all her earthly belongings going up in flames in front of her eyes has not fully registered yet.
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.
I'm no psychologist, but I think she is still just in shock. The reality of all her earthly belongings going up in flames in front of her eyes has not fully registered yet.
I think she's an AI, one not terribly well programmed for human interaction.
Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.Not IME. When my house burned down no-one was hysterical.
"Hi Simon, may I borrow your sofa, my house has just burnt down"Where were you going to take the sofa?
So...
What happened in the 90 minutes we didn't get to see? Did he really just drink quietly at the bar for an hour before the fire started?
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone. It really seems that she can't properly process emotions and non-verbal communication. Because she doesn't 'get' it, she can't do it herself.
I'm left with two possible conclusions:The second option wouldn't explain her failure to get that Clinton wasn't a troublemaker, so, yeah, I'm thinking that this is autism of some kind.
- She is somewhere on the autistic spectrum;
- Her life to date has been so shitty that she just has had all the pain and rage burned out of her by the hopelessness.
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.
That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad :meh:
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.
That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad :meh:
Tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient?
That's how this particular German views our eastern Neighbours - that insulting?
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.
That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad :meh:
Tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient?
That's how this particular German views our eastern Neighbours - that insulting?
I never said I was insulted. I said I was sad ;) anyhow, based on the character attached to those comments, you might say "tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient", and you also might say "thick-skinned, drab-looking, gruff, emotionally cold and less-than-comfortable with the English language". That's the vibe I got from the part of your post I quoted :)
...I guess it's still better than the "you guys steal ALL the cars around here" stereotype that most Scandinavians seem to have :-D
"Poproszę o sześć piw" is perfectly correct grammatically, but it strikes me as somewhat awkward. It may depend on the region, but I don't think I've ever heard a person use that particular construction. I think a more natural one is "Sześć piw, proszę" ;) [/nitpick] (in my defense, I nitpick language for a living)
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.
I'm no psychologist, but I think she is still just in shock. The reality of all her earthly belongings going up in flames in front of her eyes has not fully registered yet.
The thing is that, with the exception of her only semi-canonical response to Barry's fishing story, she always seems to act like this. It doesn't seem to be shock (which was my first idea too). It just seems to be the way she talks and acts!
Or maybe she is just like that. No disorder, just calm and bad at human interaction. Some people are just poorly socialized and even tempered.
No, he'll offer a room at his mom's. He knows his sister won't be home so there will be separate rooms for both without any questions. If his mom can accept Claire, walking in with her won't even rate a raised eyebrow.
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?
Clairemom is doing better than a tragically large fraction of all parents of trans children. If only that kind of acceptance could be taken for granted.
I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?
Clairemom is doing better than a tragically large fraction of all parents of trans children. If only that kind of acceptance could be taken for granted.
I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.
Their breath is visible now, guess it's getting colder/ the fire is dying/ both.
No, he'll offer a room at his mom's. He knows his sister won't be home so there will be separate rooms for both without any questions. If his mom can accept Claire, walking in with her won't even rate a raised eyebrow.
I feel like it's kind of a leap from "not a complete shitheel to her own blood" to "willing to take in a somewhat frightening stranger."
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.
That's great! :)
I don't know how to tell you this, but season 5 started two weeks ago. Two eps a week, today's 4, Shaw returned, and I don't want to spoil any details about it or the twist, but something finally happens between Shaw and Root and that is glorious. :3Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.
That's great! :)
Also, is Brun the Topher to Hilde's Chris?
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.
That's great! :)
YESSSSSSSSSSSOh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.
That's great! :)
It is airing now. This is going to be the final season. Shaw and Root are the best thing television has ever produced.
Argh, god damn it, why the hell would you post any of that without spoiler tags? Yes, I appreciate being told it's back, but...seriously! WHY?I literally never said anything that wasn't said in basically every single interview the past few months. I mean you probably didn't read them, but most people I'm sure went in knowing that. Besides, not like you even know what the you know what is.
Clinton falls into same trap he did with Emily, puts on fake eyebrows.Except Clinton uses nori because he saw it in an anime once (FLCL).
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone. It really seems that she can't properly process emotions and non-verbal communication. Because she doesn't 'get' it, she can't do it herself.Other possibilities include; she's in a minor case of shock, having a delayed reaction, or it's so much stress & panic that she's having issues processing it.
I'm left with two possible conclusions:The second option wouldn't explain her failure to get that Clinton wasn't a troublemaker, so, yeah, I'm thinking that this is autism of some kind.
- She is somewhere on the autistic spectrum;
- Her life to date has been so shitty that she just has had all the pain and rage burned out of her by the hopelessness.
And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)As an aspie, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Today's been an off day.
Hey MoM, shouldn't you change the attribution of one of your signatures now?Fun fact, in the book his real name is Walder. I guess they didn't want him to share a name with Walder Frey in the show (with them changing Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara to avoid confusion with Osha).
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.
That's great! :)
Also, is Brun the Topher to Hilde's Chris?
I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.
She's either in a minor case of shock, having a delayed reaction, or it's so much stress & panic that she's having issues processing it.I like Brun. Also... I really don't understand the common reaction of everyone else here. I would have the same reaction that she did. "Sigh. How tiresome. At least I rescued the clock. I'll just take a moment of time out before thinking about what to do next, where to sleep etc".
Losing everything like that is a serious inconvenience. Cash, credit/debit cards, ID, drivers licence, passport, citizenship certificate, address book on paper, computer, phone, the problem of where to sleep in the medium as well as short term, income now job has gone, all possessions apart from the clothes you're wearing... That is very tiresome indeed.Yep, that's going to be a tough Hilda climb. :claireface:
She's either in a minor case of shock, having a delayed reaction, or it's so much stress & panic that she's having issues processing it.I like Brun. Also... I really don't understand the common reaction of everyone else here. I would have the same reaction that she did. "Sigh. How tiresome. At least I rescued the clock. I'll just take a moment of time out before thinking about what to do next, where to sleep etc".
I might be concerned about what's going to happen next, be on the lookout for meteors, out of control trucks etc. Murphy's Law.
OK, I'm weird too, in the same way she is. I know that I'm weird, not because I feel I'm weird, but through a process of deduction. Everyone else seems to think panic, fear, shock, stress etc is the normal reaction, and I believe it. So I'm not normal. Still, it's useful to be like this when the brown smelly stuff hits the air conditioning.
Brun and Clinton make an effective team. She tries to deal with the fire, he gets everyone out. Full marks to both. Did anyone else notice this? That there were no casualties, simply because they both did the right thing instead of panicking?
As for her origin; she might be ethnic Roma from a family driven from Germany in the 1930s but has retained the naming of the homeland, as many migrant communities do.
why not push to the limits?Well okay, if we can do it that way...
Brun and Clinton make an effective team. She tries to deal with the fire, he gets everyone out. Full marks to both. Did anyone else notice this? That there were no casualties, simply because they both did the right thing instead of panicking?Just so, they did well.
FWIW, it is my opinion that today's strip confirms that that Brun does have something wrong that leads to her very stoic demeanour.
[...]
she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either
Cultures also vary greatly in how far public displays of emotion are acceptable.
...
FWIW, it is my opinion that today's strip confirms that that Brun does have something wrong that leads to her very stoic demeanour. I wonder if it is trauma-induced, somewhat like with Bubbles. However, the point is that she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either and this extends to her response to high-stress scenarios.
My cousin gets the same crap all the time... She (Patricia) goes by "Tricia" rather than "Pat" or "Patty"
... very stoic demeanour. I wonder if it is trauma-induced, somewhat like with Bubbles. However, the point is that she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either and this extends to her response to high-stress scenarios.
My cousin gets the same crap all the time... She (Patricia) goes by "Tricia" rather than "Pat" or "Patty"I had a friend in college named Victoria who went by Toria.
I had a friend in college named Victoria who went by Toria.I dated a Victoria for a little while who went by Tori.
In reference to comic 3215, she's apparently able to quickly and easily discern the real source of Clinton's conflict, get right to the heart of the matter, and precisely steer him towards a clear and immediate self-realization. As an aspie myself, I only have my own experiences to go off of, but I can't possibly see that kind of immediate and precise social navigation ever being in my wheelhouse of skills.And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)As an aspie, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Today's been an off day.
If everybody were normal,
a bunch of personality types that have unhappy lives most of the time.
I too find a bit tiresome this frenzied "medicalisation" of any variation from the way someone thinks "normal people" behave. Not everyone flies into hysterics under stress, as can be observed in TV coverage of disasters today, or old newsreels of bombed cities for that matter. Cultures also vary greatly in how far public displays of emotion are acceptable. People can be different without needing us to thumb through the DSM.
Grief folks. Like I said I've been in this situation (leave burning house carrying only what was to hand in the middle of the night) and I hope none of you ever have or ever will be, but the superficially calm demeanour is exactly the way all 4 of us in that house and the 2 people in the house next door behaved. This is not unusual behaviour in real life, at least in the UK.This meme (in the sense of shared idea, not rickrolling) will probably die down as we get more interactions with Brun, but it bears nipping in the bud; It's not just her behavior after the fire that's atypical, so is her behavior and syntax before the fire. It may just boil down to a form of Comedic Sociopathy as IICIH opines, but she's been consistently characterized before and after she has a major event to react to as stoic and laconic, so focusing only on after the fire does her a disservice. I still suggest immigrant with English as a second language, combined with a turbulent history (Valkyrie is probably not on the table). We shall see.
If everybody were normal,
Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.
If everybody were normal,
Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.
Perhaps it would. Maybe "normal" is too pejorative.
In reference to comic 3215, she's apparently able to quickly and easily discern the real source of Clinton's conflict, get right to the heart of the matter, and precisely steer him towards a clear and immediate self-realization. As an aspie myself, I only have my own experiences to go off of, but I can't possibly see that kind of immediate and precise social navigation ever being in my wheelhouse of skills.
If everybody were normal,
Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.
Perhaps it would. Maybe "normal" is too pejorative.
I'm not just normal, I'm orthonormal. :claireface:
I had a friend in college named Victoria who went by Toria.I dated a Victoria for a little while who went by Tori.
...
On the subject of "normal", I have distressingly often gotten the question "can people with autism spectrum disorders be normal?” My response has usually been "Wrong question. If you meant "can they be happy", then yes, absolutely."
and some Afrikaans from another whose parents were in Zuid Afrika.
I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.
If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.
It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.
I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.
Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?
Well, I mean, she threatened Clinton with a harpoon, yelled at him for not wanting a beer, and I don't have a third thing but those first two were pretty darn bad. Calling them 'very small negative incidents' is an understatement.I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.
Claire was disliked when she was introduced, if that makes you feel better.
Because of the speculation around here, very small negative incidents or statements early in the introduction of a character tend to get blown out to full-blown character flaws.
Well, I mean, she threatened Clinton with a harpoon, yelled at him for not wanting a beer, and I don't have a third thing but those first two were pretty darn bad. Calling them 'very small negative incidents' is an understatement.
Still, I can chalk that up to Jeph's introduction of her not working out as well as he'd intended. We'll see what her personality's like in a month.
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.Most characters in fiction that observers label as autistic are not so. They merely have an ambiguous disorder that the writers can manipulate at whim for comedy or drama. See: Abed's shifting pop culture fixations and occasional sociopathic disregard for the mental harm he directly states he knows will come from his actions, everything about Sheldon Cooper. There's a reason they're never explicitly called autistic within their shows, though characters may dance around the terminology (there's an ass burgers pun in the Community pilot, but the DnD episode titles his game character Abed the Undiagnosable).
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.
Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?
WRT the shortening of names, one could consider me unfortunate. "Seb" is really the only way to shorten Sebastian, so I definitely don't have any options!I've most often heard it shortened as Bass.
The clock appears to be quite important to her, as well.
How tiresome. At least I rescued the clock. I'll just take a moment of time out before thinking about what to do next, where to sleep etc".OK, timeout over. Now to deal with the fact that I'm human and not ready to deal with this without help.
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.I mean, yeah, I guess it sounds better since it's less common? Just, for the record, neurotypical translates to something like "has a normal brain" while neuroatypical and neurodivergent both translate to something like "doesn't have a normal brain". The dividing line is still being drawn between people who think the way they're "supposed" to and people who don't, instead of groups of people who think in two different but equally valid ways. The fact that it seems less judgmental has less to do with the terms actually being without judgment and more to do with the fact that people don't use the terms often enough for them to develop culturally-saturated connotations. If "neurotypical" replaced "normal" in these sorts of conversations I'm pretty sure it would develop exactly the connotation you're hoping to avoid.
It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.
If "neurotypical" replaced "normal" in these sorts of conversations I'm pretty sure it would develop exactly the connotation you're hoping to avoid.
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.
If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
...
I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.
Super luck out that Clinton's there. I expect others to join in as needed. Claire, Marten....If she is in fact on the spectrum introducing new people during a meltdown could be a really bad idea.
Maybe; but perhaps each time such a change is made, the degradation might be a little slower to happen, as a few more people get the point. But that won't happen at all unless we try, right?
I like Brun better for each strip she appears in. And I don't agree at all that she is anything like Faye - she seems a completely different animal to me. I'm amazed at Jeph's ability to write (and draw) interesting female characters.
Saying an autistic person has severe psychological issues seems a bit like describing a white person as having a pigmentation defect.it seems to me that a more apt comparison would be saying that a person with albinism has a pigmentation defect. or that a person with deafness has a sensory deficit.
I hope Claire isn't sitting at home freaking out because Clinton hasn't come home so he must still be mad after all *sob*
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.
If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
...
I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.
Ok, I 'get' why Sheldon and the Rainman tick you off, in terms of representation. And that you don't like a particular character - well, contrary to popular opinion (and local custom), there's this proverb that "there's no accounting for taste".
But ... quite a few people (myself included) seem to like Brun - and her 'special' (sorry - sleepdep & 2nd language. Usually, I'd strangle folk for that one, but I can't come up with better right now) isn't played for laughs-and-pointing-fingers (well, not more than any other character in a webcomic), so in terms of "representation to the world at large", she might not be as much of a worry as you seem to believe? (Assuming, of course, she does indeed represent people with ASD)
(And neglecting, of course, the teensyweensy problem of being represented by a character that you personally can't stand :-\)
Isn't the intent and meaning behind the words the point, rather than the use of a euphemistic word with an identical meaning?
Is it possible that the euphemism treadmill (which Baphomet was describing) does harm rather than good?
As someone with partial deafness, I would cringe if anyone ever used a term llike 'sensory deficit' anywhere near me.
So, I'm not saying Clinton burned down her bar. I'm just saying it didn't burn down till he went there.
Harm? - probably not. But for there to be a benefit, there has to be explanation going along with the modified vocabulary at some point; while a few people might get it on their own as a result, that will not necessarily be a significant proportion.
As someone with partial deafness, I would cringe if anyone ever used a term llike 'sensory deficit' anywhere near me.
must...resist...easy...joke...
I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.Except these aren't trivial details. Her speech patterns, trouble with emotion, and going nonverbal are all a pretty damned specific set of traits. And I don't think anyone is projecting their own identities - I'm saying she's probably autistic, not that she's me.
"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"
Also @Roxtar: I think that's uncalled for. Going non-verbal is a pretty specific issue. If Brun isn't autistic, there aren't a great deal of other explanations which make sense.
here's a common one that does make sense. We've all been to the point where we're on the verge of crying and we need to not talk in order to keep us from going over the edge.I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.Except these aren't trivial details. Her speech patterns, trouble with emotion, and going nonverbal are all a pretty damned specific set of traits. And I don't think anyone is projecting their own identities - I'm saying she's probably autistic, not that she's me.
"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"
If Brun goes deeper, Clinton may panic. Which of the QC crew are best equipped to help him through it?Not sure what you mean by deeper. I think Clinton would do fine to comfort her, she knows Clinton the best from the cast anyway.
Also: She wants Clinton's help, rather than the officer. While she doesn't know a LOT about Clinton, over the past few hours she's seen him enough to know that a) he's safe, and b) she's seen him enough to develop SOME familiarity with his disposition and behavior. She knows nothing at all about the officers. She doesn't know how to predict or respond to them, and she's not in a position to easily identify and analyze that. This makes a lot of sense to me, it's FAAAAR less stressful to deal with a quantity you know at least a little about and have already figured out how to deal with than one you know know nothing at all about.
...
speech patterns: german name, cuckoo clock: likely german immigrant.
problem with emotion: see speech patterns above.
OK, two things+2 Internets
...
Saying an autistic person has severe psychological issues seems a bit like describing a white person as having a pigmentation defect.it seems to me that a more apt comparison would be saying that a person with albinism has a pigmentation defect. or that a person with deafness has a sensory deficit.
People with white skin are globally a minority, less than 10%. Their skin aren't dark, what's up with that? They can't block out harmful UV rays effectively, I think it's perfectly appropriate to call that a defect.
This is clearly a ridiculous argument, but defects are subjective and can only be characterised in reference to a baseline. What that baseline is is entirely arbitrary.
As a side note, isn't the "you're projecting!" argument non-falsifiable, and therefore not very useful in a discussion? One can always say that, but it's better to talk about the actual comic and discuss whether a certain explanation is valid. I personally think accusing someone of projecting is slightly patronizing and condescending. It's also a kind of an ad hominem.No. Projection is fairly simple; Person A has seen/experienced/have characteristic X, Person B exhibits characteristic X, therefore Person A extrapolates other qualities and identifies with person B. Noting that something is projection is a statement of objective fact when a person directly says "I have experienced X before, they're doing X, therefore they have this other trait.' At least 10 people have made and reiterated arguments to that effect, with several more who were more vague. It's bad because it's based on a single reference point (what Person A has observed) which ignores that both Person A and B are individuals with individual reactions, and wrongly associates characteristics that may be only loosely related.
This is clearly a ridiculous argumentThe human body has adapted via natural selection to produce a chemical called melanin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin), which among other things regulates the amount of UV radiation that the body absorbs. humans who produce more melanin are indeed more resistant UV damage, but makes them more susceptible to vitamin D deficiency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypovitaminosis_D#Darker_skin_color). humans who's bodies produce less melanin have the opposite problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma#UV_radiation). both of these traits are ultimately the result of the same mechanism performing the same task toward the same end, only calibrated to do so in different environmental conditions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#Evolution_of_skin_color).People with white skin are globally a minority, less than 10%. Their skin aren't dark, what's up with that? They can't block out harmful UV rays effectively, I think it's perfectly appropriate to call that a defect.Saying an autistic person has severe psychological issues seems a bit like describing a white person as having a pigmentation defect.it seems to me that a more apt comparison would be saying that a person with albinism has a pigmentation defect. or that a person with deafness has a sensory deficit.
This is clearly a ridiculous argument, but defects are subjective and can only be characterised in reference to a baseline. What that baseline is is entirely arbitrary.
This does not hold true for humans who are unable to produce melanin at all, which is a severely maladaptive trait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanism#Signs_and_symptoms). there is nothing arbitrary or subjective about distinguishing between a mechanism which functions at varying levels, and one which is incapable of doing so.
If you have a 6-cylinder car which is unable to reach highway speeds because only 3 of the cylinders fire, then the car is broken. damaged or non-functional components are preventing it from performing the task for which it was designed and built.
WRT the shortening of names, one could consider me unfortunate. "Seb" is really the only way to shorten Sebastian, so I definitely don't have any options!
I did word that poorly, but you seem to have gotten my point which was that in addition to being unaware of typical syntax, being unaware of social norms regarding expression of emotion in another culture is common amongst immigrant populations....
speech patterns: german name, cuckoo clock: likely german immigrant.
problem with emotion: see speech patterns above.
I'd ask you to re-read that & to try again. Discussing "cultural conventions about emoting" is one thing - equating "(having) problems with emotions" with "(being) German" is another.
Thanks for your understanding.
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.
Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?
The slurs that ADD, ASD, or the umbrella-term neuro-a-typical are a "euphemism" for are e.g. "Freak", "Spaz", "Schizo", "Idiot", "Retard" ...
You can live with cis & het, but not with neurotypical?
As a side note, isn't the "you're projecting!" argument non-falsifiable, and therefore not very useful in a discussion? One can always say that, but it's better to talk about the actual comic and discuss whether a certain explanation is valid. I personally think accusing someone of projecting is slightly patronising and condescending. It's also a kind of an ad hominem.
General ether: I find it quite easy to understand that people who experience-, and deal with a thing 24/7 tend to have a rather thorough grasp on the subject matter - second only to medical professionals.
I do not think this is due to my also being neuro-a-typical (albeit not on the spectrum) - it's simple logic.
As to the general tone of the debate, which quite frankly borders on "explaining" to people what they can and cannot think and say about a medical condition they live with every day ... I'll just point to oddtail, because I'm not in a emotional state suitable for explaining things calmly and rationally right now. If this was about OCD and/or ADHD, I'd have to stare very hard at my (non-existing) cuckoo-clock in order not to give an ... impressive ... demonstration of Germans' emotive abilities.
It's common courtesy, common sense and explicit forum policy that *trans people are "the leading experts on their condition" (points to forum rules). While *trans-issues are undoubtedly on the most urgent possible level, I fail to see how that difference frees us from continuing to muster the simple decency of treating people as if they know what is happening in their lives, and which problems they face on a daily basis.
This forum is better than this.(click to show/hide)
Ahahahaa, I love Brun. :3 <3
If you don't respect pooping privacy, your proboscis will pay a prohibitive price.Preposterous! Prompt police will pop up!
If you don't respect pooping privacy, your proboscis will pay a prohibitive price.Preposterous! Prompt police will pop up!
She's been down this road many times before.What do you base that on?
That thing with the note in panel 6 said to me: "Shoo! Go home! I'll be fine!"Prettty sure that was meant to say "go away now, I need to poop!"
She's been down this road many times before.
What do you base that on?
It's nice that she wants to see him tomorrow.
She nods emphatically and affirmatively in the third panel.It's nice that she wants to see him tomorrow.She doesn't actually say that. The note does not specify anything about "tomorrow", and she doesn't really respond to it when Clinton mentions it. *shrug*
It's all explained in my previous post.She's been down this road many times before.What do you base that on?
When Clinton tells her that he visited a bar and it subsequently burned down... oh, and he's sort of been self-nominated as the carer for the former barkeep...? Well, I doubt that Claire will let him out on his own ever again.
Wow. She's got big issues with emotional extremes, it seems. So bad that it screws up her ability to function until she crests the hill. I wonder if she'll be able to do anything for a while!
Carl-E is right: That clock is important to her. Maybe watching the hands moving around the dial is calming in some way? If so, it is probably something that is very important to her. The vanishing scotch mark might be a hint in this direction. I can see her lovingly wiping the mark away when Clinton wasn't looking.
Cute touch: As the walls started to crumble, she feels safe enough with Clinton to make physical contact and choose him to help her. It says a lot about Clinton's character that she so quickly has come to trust him, especially given that she clearly has previously had problems with people trying to run her life (trying to assign names is never a good start).
A prediction: Brun is going to be the most challenging regular character to write that Jeph has ever had in the strip.
Right, she does. I stand corrected.It's okay, I assume you saw the tomorrow mention in the last panel and got mixed up.
She's lived with this all her life, after all. She must know how to handle it.
For some reason I am mildly surprised there is no umlaut. :psyduck:I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.
She's been down this road many times before.What do you base that on?
:roll: Okay, as you apparently have a blind spot for the rest of the post you originally quoted:Okay, the eyerolling is uncalled for and rude. I think it natural to read 'previous post' as not the one I quoted (being the one that I quoted, which would be"the post you quoted" as you say), but the one previous to it. Don't blame me for your phrasing.She's lived with this all her life, after all. She must know how to handle it.
Conditions like hers typically first manifest in childhood. She's certainly had experiences worse than this before.
For some reason I am mildly surprised there is no umlaut. :psyduck:I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a linguistt
She likely has a lot of practice with it and may have studied psychology in college (speaking from experience).In reference to comic 3215, she's apparently able to quickly and easily discern the real source of Clinton's conflict, get right to the heart of the matter, and precisely steer him towards a clear and immediate self-realization. As an aspie myself, I only have my own experiences to go off of, but I can't possibly see that kind of immediate and precise social navigation ever being in my wheelhouse of skills.And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)As an aspie, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Today's been an off day.
In regards to her characterization as a whole, I just don't find her all too pleasant. Prior to the fire, she's willfully unhelpful, threatens Clinton for no good reason, and seems to dislike helping customers. After the fire she's not been as bad, though she's still done little to endear herself to me besides being in a sympathetic position. I can't easily care for someone who acts like an unhelpful dick most of the time, even if they're amusing and willing to be *less* of a dick if you call them out on it.
I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.
(as opposed to the every-other-language "A")
To be fair, certain Central Asian languages also pronounce "A" differently. :laugh:
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.
It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.
Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A")
Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A")
English has lots of "A"s. (There are two kinds of languages: those with five vowels*, and those with five dozen vowels). I assume that you mean "as in hat" and "as in father" respectively.
*some languages may only have three vowels
Thank you for explaining it better. Like I said, I was very tired (still am, too).I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.
In German, the umlaut doesn't reflect stress, but completely changes pronunciation. Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A"), Ö is pronounced sort of like "er," and Ü... well... listen to the word "brüder" here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWyYn0E4Ys&t=14m29s).
"Normal is a statistical anomaly."Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.
It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.
I'm not sure how something that literally says "typical" is really less judgemental than "normal". What it does is medicalizes it, which helps some people be non-judgemental about things, but is it really good to be judgy about any difference you can't medicalize?
Calling something normal doesn't inherently entail a value judgement against things that are non-normal, and saying that it does feels like conceding the war to pretend you've won a battle.
It took me this long to realize "Brun" is an anagram of "Burn". :psyduck:Feel the Brun!
Yeah, sorry about that Eastrim. I was about two coffees short when I posted that.No worries.
It took me this long to realize "Brun" is an anagram of "Burn". :psyduck:
...unless you were using a deliberate hyperbole, in which case I withdraw my objection.
Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho? :?Is it really necessary to call another language strange?
In context, it was a pun on American English and oddtails quote of Near Lurker about it.Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho? :?Is it really necessary to call another language strange?
That's an awfully detailed speculation, do you already have sketches drawn up too to go along with it? Are you going to make that panel reality even if Jeph doesn't? Are you willing to go the distance?
(Okay yeah I need sleep..)
WRT the shortening of names, one could consider me unfortunate. "Seb" is really the only way to shorten Sebastian, so I definitely don't have any options!"Basti" is pretty common in Germany.
I somehow doubt the pun was directed at American English in particular. At least I read as a pun at English in general.
But I'm with TrillHo. The pun was an unnecessary one. There are contexts where it holds. If your language repertoire is close to mine (Finnish, English, Swedish, German), then English is the odd one out in many ways - the pronounciation of vowel combinations in particular. But, if your repertoire is, say English, French, Spanish, then my (past) complaints about the inability of English speakers to pronounce 'J' or 'Y' or umlauted vowels "my way" would ring hollow.
The explanation to the differences is probably (can't site a source, sorry) historical. Spanish and French have obvious common roots. Swedish OTOH is a Germanic language. Finnish is not, but largely copied the phoneme-to-letter(combination) mapping from German/Swedish. English, having a mixture of French, Germanic and Gaelic roots, is hit with traditions pulling in opposite directions. Also, standards of written English are old (very much so in comparison to my native Finnish), and therefore the language is lugging a ballast built up over the centuries. This (IMHO) is the main reason the US has an illiteracy problem. Your learners are battling this handicap.
Anyway, there are many languages and many conventions. The strangeness is in the ear of the listener.
General ether:I do too. Still have it bookmarked; it's from here. (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28936.msg1155313.html#msg1155313) It's from when Angus was considering the New York job and lots of people were projecting their relationship difficulties or future planning on to the situation.
That happily cited line about "projection" that Tova has in his sig - I remember when Westrim made that comment, but not the specific topic (probably a relationship arc with Marigold - they do tend to be ... "combustible").
As Oddtail pointed out, the discussion most likely is over after "you're projecting" - it's a derail, an impossible-to-refute red-herring, and an ad hominem fallacy (you are wrong because you are somebody who is likely toprojectidentify/generalize) all rolled into one. With the option to shoot off a "Don't be so sensitive ... you're always so sensitive ..." if the victim protests.
Okay, so does Brun have stress-induced mutism, or is she full-on Autism Spectrum?
The autistic trait does seem to get a bit of ground now. I can't say I know a lot about this stuff but I have an alternative reason. Don't take offense, I'm just shooting out an idea:
She could also be extremely traumatized from a previous event ...
Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho? :?Is it really necessary to call another language strange?
I did it as a human not a mod.
Long consonant clusters? Russian says "Здравствуйте" ("Zdravstvuyte").
FWIW - That is what is referred to as "Head-can(n)on" in here, and I've seen more detailed canons, and ... much "looser cannons" than those BenRG generally puts on the upper deck. (What I was unhappy with, I've already said, and I've also said I generally enjoy Ben firing a "broadside", so YMMV)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1auhue2M1qbcwmwo1_500.png)
Personally, I've found it conducive to my mental health to try and regard the speculation in here as a form of "collective emergent performance art" ... :wink:
This IS, after all, the WCDT - usually just one step removed from alt-canon (and-, if it were not for the moderation, slash-fic) - it's tempting to groan about other people's "mental mortar", while forgetting the "Howitzer weighing down on your own skull" ...
People are worried about the clock.Actually, there is!
It's in the hotel safe.
What I'm wondering is, what happened to the skirt she was wearing (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3210)?
At least, I thought it was a skirt. There's nothing between that comic and this to tell any differently.
People are worried about the clock.Actually, there is!
It's in the hotel safe.
What I'm wondering is, what happened to the skirt she was wearing (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3210)?
At least, I thought it was a skirt. There's nothing between that comic and this to tell any differently.
If you stare at her crotch here, (Uh... Um... I got nothin',) you can see what looks like a crease where you'd have a zipper or button or whatever:
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3215
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'. Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.
My headcanøn anyway.
Actually, there is!
If you stare at her crotch here, (Uh... Um... I got nothin',)
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'. Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.
My headcanøn anyway.
Speaking of sequences of consonants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C4%8D_prst_skrz_krk).
O good I wasn't the only one to notice.(click to show/hide)
Dude is too ripped to be the guy from the computer store.
...go Clinton's mom.
It isn't 'parent having sex' that's the problem. It's 'Mom having sex with a guy my age who I know personally' that seems to be the real problem. He'll never be able to talk to Chad in CompSci... or even look at him... ever again without this traitorous part of his hind-brain making him imagine him and his mother doing... things. It's not a recipe for ease of mind.
For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
The othering and exoticising of other races is a recurring issue discussed in depth in another thread, frequently. I was simply trying to sidestep one small micro part of that.I figured that was your assumption, which is why I endeavored to point out that in context what was being called strange (jokingly) was English, not Central Asian languages.
People are worried about the clock.I shall continue to nitpick, because there's no indication that they pass a safe in that entrance scene where she also doesn't have the clock.
It's in the hotel safe.
The issue for Clinton isn't that his mom is sexually active - it's that her paramour is younger than he is.Well, there's no indication of that being the case. They're clearly peers, but younger people tutor slightly older peers all the time in college, depending on what order they took their classes in.
Well, for a second there I thought that people were just trying to wind me up. :claireface: :claireface:For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
Remember, folks, this is finding this out on the same day he got rejected himself.
Found him. It´s the guy from the computer store:
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3132
Or maybe not? He looks a bit different. Hmm...
TM
Nah, I want to drive you cuckoo. If you already are, then that's great; you'll be grandfathered in! :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:Well, for a second there I thought that people were just trying to wind me up. :claireface: :claireface:For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
Some sort of reaction, certainly, but her reaction in particular was unusual enough to spark speculation.Except that, as some people noted, her reaction wasn't actually unusual at all. The situation is what's unusual - she doesn't have to be autistic or had past trauma for her reaction to be a perfectly reasonable reaction to this trauma. People's responses in high stress situations run the gamut, and hers is fairly well known.
It was probably her bar too, since no sort of boss or owner figure showed up to assist.I'm confused that this is still under 'probable,' and at all the dubiousness it was treated with when it was first proposed. It was already reasonably likely; small bars don't exactly have a lot of employees, but when Kugai proposed it the possibility was treated as revelation. Once we learned a day later that she lived above it, it was confirmed; employees don't live above businesses (barring rare, old, or large company occasions), owners do. As soon as we learned she lived above the bar, there was virtually no chance she didn't own it. Did people find it unlikely that a woman would own a bar?
It's time we found out about the clock :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:Nah, I want to drive you cuckoo. If you already are, then that's great; you'll be grandfathered in! :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:Well, for a second there I thought that people were just trying to wind me up. :claireface: :claireface:For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
An amazingly acute Australian always answers alliteration ...
Looks like mom got game and Clinton will have repressed memories. I'm all for the "You go girl!" moment on this but I do have to question her taste in men. Whatever floats her boat I suppose.
why not push to the limits?Well okay, if we can do it that way...
Brunhilda is a Valkyrie, come to Earth to serve beer and ale between carting off warriors to Valhalla. Since she's been around for a long time and seen a lot of stuff, good and bad, she just doesn't react to it much anymore. But what will she do when she finds... love? For while she has experienced all that humans have to offer, between the bar and her duties transporting dead people, she's mostly missed the AI revolution. When she meets Pintsize, it's love at first sight, for he has archived things she has never even dreamed of, and for the first time in a very long time, she feels alive again. Will she at last find her true love just as Ragnarok begins?
Oh nothing about him personally, just that awful haircut and boxer-briefs combo.Looks like mom got game and Clinton will have repressed memories. I'm all for the "You go girl!" moment on this but I do have to question her taste in men. Whatever floats her boat I suppose.
All we know about Chad is that he's a big ol' hunk of beefcake, that he's friendly, and that he needed tutoring from Clinton. Well, and that he likes older women. Not really enough data to form an opinion on him yet.
Anyway I doubt Mom Augustus intends this as a long-term relationship. Even if he is totally shallow, so what? They'll have a night of mind-blowing sex, and tomorrow morning she'll make him pancakes and then kick him out the front door.
Depression is similar in that regard in that when it becomes overwhelming, just dealing with ordinary everyday things gets to be too difficult, if not impossible. It manifests differently, obviously, but I get it. I have depression linked with psychosis and when my depression gets really bad, functioning at all is a serious challenge.
Yeah, what iwdy said.
OK, I guess it's only semi-related to the comic, but I'll ask.
This might be my general weirdness, but I am always utterly baffled by the reaction, which seems to happen both in fiction and as a reaction of fans of fiction. The idea that seeing/thinking/talking about parents having sex is extremely uncomfortable. The phrase "brain bleach" is used more often than not.
I mean, I understand the part that we are wired not to be attracted to our parents. Therefore, the idea of a parent having sex is not, well, sexy to us ourselves. But at the same time, I don't understand why I would be particularly weirded out by the fact that my parents have had sex. I'm kinda a key piece of evidence that it had to have happened at some point =P no, I do not think about it actively and the thought would probably be somewhat awkward, and granted, I've never walked in on my parents having sex or anything. But I don't think I would be particularly traumatized by this. Probably not as a child and certainly not as a teenager/adult.
In this case, it's not even the reaction Clinton is having. His response makes perfect sense to me. But the ubiquity of "eww eww eww parents HAVING SEX" is utterly incomprehensible to me.
I mean, isn't it kind of narrow-minded to be weirded out by something just because it is not appealing to us on a personal level? The "parents having sex" reaction, despite it clearly being a different reason, kinda reminds me of people who seem to be homophobic mainly because they don't personally enjoy the thought of same-sex couples doin' it*. With, in some cases, a measure of ageism thrown in, due to one's parents' relative age?
Again, personal sexy thoughts and aesthetic appeal aside, I'm not sure why parents/family being sexually active would be a reason to freak out to any large extent. Is it because people don't think of their own parents (or other close family) as persons with a sex drive? Is it because we're supposed to react this way for some reason?
Help me out here, people.
* So I find the phrase "doin' it" amusing. So sue me.
Remember, folks, this is finding this out on the same day he got rejected himself.
Damn.
I love love love the head canon cannon image. Where's it from?
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'. Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.
My headcanøn anyway.
Maybe, but Brün and Broon are pretty distant sounds. Wouldn't Clinton have pronounced it "Brin"or something in that case?
I love love love the head canon cannon image. Where's it from?
headcannon/canon stiff I clipped
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'. Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.
My headcanøn anyway.
Maybe, but Brün and Broon are pretty distant sounds. Wouldn't Clinton have pronounced it "Brin"or something in that case?
I think Perfectly Reasonable is assuming that "Brun" = "u as in cut" and "Brün" = "u as in flute", rather than referring to the proper German ü sound.
(Wouldn't it be so much easier if we all used IPA? /ʌ/, /u:/, and /y:/ respectively. Probably the "Broon" was intended to mean he pronounced /u:/, but the proper German vowel was /ʊ/... or, since the symbols only have so much precision, an English /u:/ isn't precisely the same as a German /u:/, it could have been a hair too long or with a close glide at the end [sometimes written /ʊw/] or something)
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.Keep in mind that he has a band named Deathmøle.
Speaking of the numbers of vowels in languages: Ubykh has two vowels, and so does Mandarin in some analyses of its phonology. But I really don't want to get deep into this, unless someone wants me to go into phonological analysis and diachronical reconstruction. IIRC Swedish has the most among European languages.Afrikaaner English has one: i. Go to SA and an Afrikaaner may well say "wilcime ti Sith Ifriki!
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.
...
Very interesting. But...
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.
That's my heäd cånön and I'm sticking to it.
(I forgot—is she living with Marten and Faye now?).
They're both named Chad...
Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'
(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)
w/r/t language, yes English has more vowels than most, but I think that its complicated consonant clusters are its real challenge.Greek does. For example "phthalate".
I mean, what other language has words (indeed, single syllables!) like "twelfths"? The vowel isn't the problem there for second-language speakers. The unvoiced 'th' is odd enough by itself, but you can get used to it; it's not all that peculiar. Sandwiching it between an 'L', 'F' and 'S' - that's bizarre.
The fact that its spelling and pronunciation are only casual acquaintances is a difficulty, but mostly a product of the fact that it's among the first languages where the ideas of standardized spelling and widespread literacy caught on, and the pronunciation of words has since drifted away from fixed spellings that actually made sense at the time. That 'gh' in night for example is left over from a voiced guttural (descended from German unvoiced 'ch' ) that isn't part of the language any more.
There does not need to be any umlaut in Brun's name to explain Clinton's mispronunciation of "Broon". When pronounced with the German u, "Brun" is fairly close to English's "Broon". The difference is that the vowel sound "oo" in Broon is a little too long. Instead of the "oo" sound from, say, "broom" or "boot", it should actually be the "oo" sound from "book" or "took".Native Kraut agrees (somewhere earlier in the thread) - though I couldn't think of a suitable English word with a "1+1/2 - length double-o".
Aaaaaand you sprung my trap ...Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'
(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)
The German plural of "umlaut" is "umlaute", yes, but the English plural of "umlaut" is "umlauts". Since PR was writing in English at the time, their use of "umlauts" is correct.
Edit: Yeah, people trying to import foreign plurals into English is a pet peeve of mine. Come on, folks, English has enough crazy inconsistencies already; can we at least try not to introduce any more?
Use enough and you'll have umlots of them. There's a reason you don't see too many of them together in a single word or sentence; they get quite rowdy in groups and turn into umlouts.
Use enough and you'll have umlots of them. There's a reason you don't see too many of them together in a single word or sentence; they get quite rowdy in groups and turn into umlouts.Don't use them in a coffee shop unless you want an umlatte.
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")
It's mostly true. It depends on which region you're in for both spelling and pronunciation. Some say and spell it "kindergarten", some say and spell it as above. And some regions pronounce the 't' halfway between a 'd' and a 't' (like how the letter 'd' is sometimes pronounced in Cherokee).There does not need to be any umlaut in Brun's name to explain Clinton's mispronunciation of "Broon". When pronounced with the German u, "Brun" is fairly close to English's "Broon". The difference is that the vowel sound "oo" in Broon is a little too long. Instead of the "oo" sound from, say, "broom" or "boot", it should actually be the "oo" sound from "book" or "took".Native Kraut agrees (somewhere earlier in the thread) - though I couldn't think of a suitable English word with a "1+1/2 - length double-o".
You have no idea of the evil genius of having the Italian subtitles in "Django- Unchained" spell Brunhilde as "Broomhilda" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tTBVSqPAE) to Christoph Waltz' immaculate high-German pronunciation - It's like Tarantino & Waltz wanted to give the tedeschi hysterical bellyaches ...Aaaaaand you sprung my trap ...Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'
(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)
The German plural of "umlaut" is "umlaute", yes, but the English plural of "umlaut" is "umlauts". Since PR was writing in English at the time, their use of "umlauts" is correct.
Edit: Yeah, people trying to import foreign plurals into English is a pet peeve of mine. Come on, folks, English has enough crazy inconsistencies already; can we at least try not to introduce any more?
From a German's POV, this is almost PoMo. Germans are certainly not above gently ribbing Americans about their pronunciation of the "Umlauts" (or rather: filming their attempts, see above) - but actually chiding them for their efforts would almost certainly be considered "being too German".
So: Stop being so German, 'Murricans!
Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")
Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")
All together now, folks, repeat after me:
English is not Latin, so the English plural of octopus is octopuses, not octopi.
English is not Japanese, so the English plural of tsunami is tsunamis, not tsunami.
English is not German, so the English plural of kindergarten is kindergartens, not kindergärten.
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")
Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".
Huh, I would have expected it to be "Computern" or something like that. 8-)
...
Speaking of the numbers of vowels in languages: Ubykh has two vowels, and so does Mandarin in some analyses of its phonology. But I really don't want to get deep into this, unless someone wants me to go into phonological analysis and diachronical reconstruction. IIRC Swedish has the most among European languages.
Thought Clairemom WAS Claire for a second.
I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.
I don't there's much to grasp. It's an orthographic convention that indicates that this is the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel. It used to, and still can be, written as an <e> after, the <e> started being writen on top, which eventualy morphed into the umlaut. I've seen it writen as an <e> on top even in 20th century texts, though, and it's still very common to write it as an <e> after.
Do you just wiggle your hips and say "call Joe"?I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.
Thought Clairemom WAS Claire for a second.All anyone sees is the red hair...
I think I love your brain.Why, thank you! It's not for sale, though.
I was taught that writing an 'e' after the vowel rather than an umlaut above the vowel was usually done as way of writing German words in languages that don't have umlauts, like English. I see it a lot in the names of families whose ancestors immigrated to the US from Germany: Koenig instead of König, Schaefer instead of Schäfer, Schueler instead of Schüler, that kind of thing.
Also, I think chaospersonified was talking about understanding how to pronounce umlauted vowels. Maybe you were too, but if so I have no idea what "the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel" means, sorry.
Very interesting. But...
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.
No, but close. Bluetooth headset + Siri. She knows all my contacts by name so I just have to tell her to call them for me.Do you just wiggle your hips and say "call Joe"?I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")
I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.
You say these things like they make sense. I do not know what that means, that some vowel sounds are front and some are back.
Except that, as some people noted, her reaction wasn't actually unusual at all. The situation is what's unusual - she doesn't have to be autistic or had past trauma for her reaction to be a perfectly reasonable reaction to this trauma. People's responses in high stress situations run the gamut, and hers is fairly well known.
Considering how much attention people have been paying to the clock lately, I'm quite surprised nobody has questioned Jeph's classification of it as a cuckoo clock. There really is no indication that it is a cuckoo clock aside from Jeph saying so, but as an amateur clock enthusiast, I really would like to say that I believe that he is incorrect. A cuckoo clock that anybody might recognize as such would have many carvings and ornamentations around the case that would still be visible from the back, which is the only view of it we have been given thus far. A cuckoo clock would also have a minimum of four chains hanging from the bottom (technically two chains with both ends hanging down, with a cast iron weight attached to one end of each). It seems to me that what she has is simply a small spring driven mantle clock, which of course may still be of German origin.
The plural is rare because the word as a countable noun is rare. In principle, the word, as used in English, has two meanings:
Uncountable: The year of school immediately before first grade, of children aged 5-6 years old.
Countable: A school that only has kindergarten classes, and no preschool or elementary grade levels.
Such schools are themselves uncommon.
I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.
Well, in Sütterlin handwriting style the "e" (in full or as an umlaut) becomes two vertical lines. See Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#Umlaut). I suspect the use of two round dots in Antiqua typefaces simply followed naturally from a unification (who wants to keep two different versions around in the movable type era) with the diaeresis/trema, a distinct diacritic originally from Greek indicating a separation of two adjacent vowels.
@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?
@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?
EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut! :psyduck:
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.
It also means 'good' (fem. sing.) in Hebrew. And being a pretty short word with two open syllables, is probably represented in a lot of languages. But I know for sure it's a Hebrew girl's name.
I think his seal could use a herring ...
I think his seal could use a herring ...
Nun lob sein Seel den Herren!
I believe it can roughly be translated to, "Make me some gloves, God, once you've eaten."
Bach wrote a lot of these, didn't he? This must be an obscure holiday.
grave | Watch the conductor |
larghetto | Watch the conductor |
andante | Watch the conductor |
allegro (ma non troppo) | Watch the conductor |
allegro | Watch the conductor |
a tempo giusto | Watch the conductor |
presto assai | Watch the conductor |
Finis Laus Deo | You can stop watching the conductor now, thank God |
@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?This vid (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vRNVf-1M7xQ) will help with #s 6 &7.
EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut! :psyduck:
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.
Oh yes, English would probably make the attempt to have it actually written "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" and expect someone to grok the meaning.
I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.
"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"