THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 06 Jun 2010, 21:36

Title: WCT: 7-11 June 2010 (1681-1685)
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Jun 2010, 21:36
Have at it. And yes, you're allowed to change your vote.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 06 Jun 2010, 22:01
When has Marigold not done something incredibly embarrassing or stupid? :P
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: IanClark on 06 Jun 2010, 22:44
Other: Absolutely all of them.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 06 Jun 2010, 22:47
Marigold's the safe bet.  I'm going with Tai.  (Which, is also probably a safe bet...)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jun 2010, 00:56
I picked Marigold but she's had her turn. On past form Tai is the most likely to do something that would embarrass a normal person, and Marten is the most likely to do something that would embarrass himself.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 00:59
Of course, from the Twitter feed, the real answer is the excluded Cosette.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 07 Jun 2010, 01:55
Would actually be nice to hear something of Cosette again.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: westrim on 07 Jun 2010, 01:59
Have at it. And yes, you're allowed to change your vote.

How? I voted Cosette and I'm sticking with it so I guess it doesn't matter- but how?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 07 Jun 2010, 02:45
Someone added "Cosette" as an afterthrought.

Sadly, if you do that, the forum forgets it should allow people to re-vote.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: evilbobthebob on 07 Jun 2010, 03:01
Well, looks like Marigold has just had a BSOD.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jun 2010, 03:10
So *that's* what's been happening to all the polls i've set up with vote changing enabled.

Frustrating since the whole reason I wanted people to be able to change votes was in case they liked new options I added later.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: LTK on 07 Jun 2010, 03:12
Wow. Complex panel layouts indeed, three and four look like they were really hard!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Binary on 07 Jun 2010, 03:19
Hah, Jeph ninja'd today's poll.

Shit, say hello to Fan.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 07 Jun 2010, 03:21
Like, totally.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 07 Jun 2010, 03:25
Two thoughts:

1. Oh. Well.  Guess what I originally thought would happen happened after all, even if it WAS a party with room for privacy, and not just several of them on the couch.

2. Dammit, Faye's propensity for physical violence is NOT cute, and NOT ok, and should not be bemusedly tolerated or enabled by her friends. The fact that she thinks she's completely allowed to hit--and not just playfully--people (men) at her whim and pleasure is morally disgusting,and I'm getting to be only a little LESS disgusted at the fact that Dora, Marten, et al, continue to let it happen without comment.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jun 2010, 03:30
There's always that question about whether it's playful cartoon violence. I think you're right that it's not -- a playful punch doesn't require an ice pack.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Jun 2010, 03:31
Oh, heck... I'll just zero the dang thing out.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heranje on 07 Jun 2010, 03:42
Hmm. I wonder how Marigold will react to this. She could think Faye is flirting with Angus specifically to hurt her. She hasn't had the greatest impression of Faye so far, knows that Faye knows she likes Angus, and was not aware of the Faye-Angus prior to this. She also seems to expect people to be mean to her - I know what that's like, because it's how I thought before I got friends. Or she could try to figure out why Faye is better/more desirable than her, and maybe even try to copy Faye's behavior to win Angus over (which would be amusing - awkward and failed attempts at snark, hooray! Though not so much the random violence and bitchy attitude, if she copied that too). Oooor she just shuts off and retreats into her computer and manga again, reverting back to the unwashed and unapproachable Marigold we met in the beginning. Or she's just sad for a while and lets Hanners comfort her. Or something. I think Dale, Sven or both should fit into this somehow.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 07 Jun 2010, 03:43
There's always that question about whether it's playful cartoon violence. I think you're right that it's not -- a playful punch doesn't require an ice pack.

Yeah, it was the ice pack that got me. I wouldn't mind if it was playful punches, but it's really not presented that way. Angus is rubbing his arm and asking about the ice pack of a room of people not involved in whatever discussion he and Faye were having, so if it were "playful" it's not like they can be expected to be part of the joke. And Marten has several times mentioned (and one time showed, I think) the bruising that resulted from Faye punching him. By the time it gets to bruising, it is not okay, even if it WERE meant "playfully."
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: WestEnder67 on 07 Jun 2010, 03:49
At least Jeph didn't dance around it like a sitcom writer leading to possibly unfunny hi-jinks.

He just full on through the shit into the fan. And sets the week up nicely.

I'm personally looking forward to the Highlander-esque battle between Faye and Marigold.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 07 Jun 2010, 04:06
Like I said, safe bet.  Now, who wants to bet Mari goes berserker and rips some faces off?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 07 Jun 2010, 04:43

I'm personally looking forward to the Highlander-esque battle between Faye and Marigold.

will there be chainmail bikinis?

Fetish art in 3, 2, 1...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Y on 07 Jun 2010, 04:46
I voted Faye since Marigold already had enough embarrassing/stupid moments. Faye could of course say something stupid to Angus or Marigold, unless Tai would try to comfort Marigold in the next comics while trying to hit on her.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 07 Jun 2010, 05:14
Ow, Tai, what hast thou done!

Well, Tai didn't know, did she? Can't really be blamed to blurt out something no one told her to keep a secret.

Well shit, while I thought, and still think, that it's better in the long run that she wasn't left in the dark for too long, the only worse way to learn the truth that I can imagine would be randomly finding them making out or banging. I feel for her.

Also:
Angus: Hey Marten, is it cool if I borrow the ice pack in your freezer?
Marten: Well, yeah, by definintion an ice pack is cool.
Angus: No, I mean...
Hannelore: I think technically an ice pack should be qualified as 'cold' rather than 'cool.'
Marten: Oh, yes, you're right, Hanners. My bad.
Angus: ...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 07 Jun 2010, 05:41
And Marten has several times mentioned (and one time showed, I think) the bruising that resulted from Faye punching him. By the time it gets to bruising, it is not okay, even if it WERE meant "playfully."

I think if you accidentally cause bruising once because you miscalculate and the person bruises easily, that can be forgiven. I have to admit, I can be a playful puncher and joke about violence a bit but this is pretty extreme. The others are just enabling her bad behaviour. Whatever happened to properly cutting back on the drinking and trying to have a sensible adult relationship? I mean, here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1450) are just a couple of examples (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1491) of other people Faye has purposely hurt (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1521) besides Marten.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: sudamerican on 07 Jun 2010, 06:04
Well, pintsize pretty much brought it on himself there...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 07 Jun 2010, 07:58
I agree with those who wrote that Faye's behaviour is just wrong. I thought she was getting better.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 07 Jun 2010, 08:17
...ketamine?!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 07 Jun 2010, 08:41
Is it wrong that I only know about Ketamine from the movie Armageddon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Ctm0p-FhA)?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: themacnut on 07 Jun 2010, 08:58
Faye's violent tendencies are supposed to be funny, remember? Part of her "issues"? Though that joke may be getting old after all this time....
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 07 Jun 2010, 09:57
Earth to Marigold. Come in Marigold. Do you read us?

Apparently, according to Twitter, she's too busy on planet WoW berating DPSes to respond.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Jander on 07 Jun 2010, 10:05
Faye's behavior is only wrong if it actually bothers/offends the people she hangs out with and does it around.

Hell when i was in my teens and early 20's I totally knew people who would just hit each other on the shoulder or something for whatever applicable reason, no one cared, it didn't make the behavior wrong.  Hell, i've offered my shoulder to people before when they say they just want to punch something really hard.  I say go ahead.  It's not gonna do any damage, and its not gonna wound my ego or hurt my feelings.  In some groups its considered acceptable to say horrible cruel offensive things to your friends and no one gets mad, because that's just the way they do things.

If the people in QC universe actually cared that Faye was punching people, then they would stand up to Faye and say hey, stop hitting people or we aren't going to be friends anymore.  If no one in the qc universe actually seems to care or think its a problem, then I see no reason why I should care about behavior deemed acceptable in a social circle.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 07 Jun 2010, 10:13
Quote from: JackFaerie
Dammit, Faye's propensity for physical violence is NOT cute, and NOT ok, and should not be bemusedly tolerated or enabled by her friends. The fact that she thinks she's completely allowed to hit--and not just playfully--people (men) at her whim and pleasure is morally disgusting,and I'm getting to be only a little LESS disgusted at the fact that Dora, Marten, et al, continue to let it happen without comment.

I'm definitely in agreement with you on this. There are many times that Pintsize deserves to be hit, can't deny that, but quite often, whatever something Marten said certainly didn't deserve much beyond playful punchings, much less something that really hurt, or bruised him. Faye shouldn't be punching people hard enough they need an ice pack - that sort of violence would definitely qualify for domestic violence, if they were in a relationship, wouldn't it? I get that it kind of is a way Faye shows affection, or deals with feelings she's frightened of, but that doesn't make it right at all, and I too don't know why it's not brought up with Dora/Marten or even in her therapy sessions.


Quote from: Heranje
Hmm. I wonder how Marigold will react to this. She could think Faye is flirting with Angus specifically to hurt her. She hasn't had the greatest impression of Faye so far, knows that Faye knows she likes Angus, and was not aware of the Faye-Angus prior to this. She also seems to expect people to be mean to her - I know what that's like, because it's how I thought before I got friends.

My initial read through had me picturing Marigold as somewhat deflated - even though Angus has told her he's not interested, Marigold's behavior has indicated she's still kinda chasing him. Now she realized she's got competition for him, and I suspect she'll be extremely passive-aggressive towards him, and kind of bitchy towards Faye. She might withdrawl a bit, but she's also drinking (though apparently isn't drunk), so you never know what she might decide to do. I could see her thinking Faye is doing this specifically to be mean, but I could also see Marigold finally connecting the dots to Angus's clues (getting coffee served by a hot girl, or else just always going to the coffee shop in general). So she may just be thinking about how dumb she feels because she threw herself at Angus and he was already into Faye.

I'm sort of expecting waterworks and running from the room.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: smilesvssmirks on 07 Jun 2010, 10:20
I voted other.

Because I think Angus is going to attempt to make the best of this moment without either girl getting pissed or scampering off into their hibernation caves of shame, only to end up putting his foot in his mouth.

I really hope Marigold doesn't get angry. I think scampering off and crying would be more likely and in character. But still. In a perfect world she would just accept the fact and go back to laughing at youtube videos. Angus has been courtin' Faye for months. Something Marigold would know if she actually had a friendship with her roommate and not just lived in her room all day. Angus and Faye having some sort of attraction to each other is not new. Unlike Marigolds spontaneous decision to be in love with Angus just because - holy shit, male attention! She has no real right or claim to get mad here, IMO. And if she gets whimpery and Hanners goes off to coddle and comfort her? Well my thoughts on that?

*vomit*
Quit feeling sorry for yourself, you pathetic lout. She brings her boy/friend problems upon herself. She never leaves her room, never showers, thus has no real social skills, etc. Sorry, if I sound like a bitch. But I just don't feel that compassionate for the annoying presence that is Marigold.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: MegaLexi on 07 Jun 2010, 10:26
I'm definitely in agreement with you on this. There are many times that Pintsize deserves to be hit, can't deny that, but quite often, whatever something Marten said certainly didn't deserve much beyond playful punchings, much less something that really hurt, or bruised him. Faye shouldn't be punching people hard enough they need an ice pack - that sort of violence would definitely qualify for domestic violence, if they were in a relationship, wouldn't it? I get that it kind of is a way Faye shows affection, or deals with feelings she's frightened of, but that doesn't make it right at all, and I too don't know why it's not brought up with Dora/Marten or even in her therapy sessions.

Ditto. I'm honestly surprised she hasn't been hit back by somebody yet. I'm not entirely sure that I wouldn't, given the situation. Unexpected punchings have lead to me nearly tearing people's piercings out in the past.

Edit: Which probably makes me as bad as Faye oh joy
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 07 Jun 2010, 10:36
Well, at least she didn't punch him in the nuts.  Faye is definitely still way insecure and defaults to punchings when threatened/attracted (same thing for her, sorta).  I doubt that tendency is ever gonna go away completely, but may lessen as she grows up a bit more and deals with her issues.  I'm not justifying her behavior, but I'm not surprised by it.  And Angus is the guy she threw across a room once, so a few punchings aren't likely to faze him too much.

Regarding Marigold, as Pintsize said in response to Marten saying he would ear-fuck Dora: "Fucking finally!"  I'm glad Jeph didn't drag out the reveal.  Tai was the perfect person to say it, too -- as far as we know, she had no idea she had to keep it a secret, and though she's much more self-confident than Marigold, she's easily just as self-centered (if for different reasons).  When I voted Tai in the poll before the strip was up, I had something like this in mind.  I look forward to seeing how the rest of this plays out.

LOL at them watching the turtle-bones-croc vid (Hanners' comment on that makes me think of Marigold, actually).  Pity Marten's drunk-bubbles have popped -- he's gonna have to work to get those back.

I was sure we'd be seeing Steve and Cosette there too, but either they aren't there or Jeph hasn't gotten around to fitting them into a strip yet.  Or maybe they're going to arrive fashionably late.  And I still wonder if Pintsize is duct-taped in a closet somewhere.



Edited because I hate typos.  -_-
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mojo on 07 Jun 2010, 10:42
Ahhh, I feel nostalgic.  It's been so long since there was a Punching.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: IanClark on 07 Jun 2010, 11:09
Faye's behavior is only wrong if it actually bothers/offends the people she hangs out with and does it around.

Hell when i was in my teens and early 20's I totally knew people who would just hit each other on the shoulder or something for whatever applicable reason, no one cared, it didn't make the behavior wrong.  Hell, i've offered my shoulder to people before when they say they just want to punch something really hard.  I say go ahead.  It's not gonna do any damage, and its not gonna wound my ego or hurt my feelings.  In some groups its considered acceptable to say horrible cruel offensive things to your friends and no one gets mad, because that's just the way they do things.

If the people in QC universe actually cared that Faye was punching people, then they would stand up to Faye and say hey, stop hitting people or we aren't going to be friends anymore.  If no one in the qc universe actually seems to care or think its a problem, then I see no reason why I should care about behavior deemed acceptable in a social circle.

I definitely see where you're coming from, but requiring an ice pack means it is doing damage.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Karilyn on 07 Jun 2010, 11:16
Hmm. I wonder how Marigold will react to this. [...] Or she could try to figure out why Faye is better/more desirable than her, and maybe even try to copy Faye's behavior to win Angus over (which would be amusing - awkward and failed attempts at snark, hooray! Though not so much the random violence and bitchy attitude, if she copied that too).
This could be interesting and even goofy idea.

I could just imagine Marigold snapping, and trying to be exactly like Faye in every way.  Dressing like her, walking like her, talking like her, acting like her.  Dies her hair to look like Faye, and taking her name too.

Cue plot-arc where she locks up Faye in an abandon warehouse, and tries to replace Faye in everyone's day to day life.  Nobody buys it, but because she doesn't hit as hard as Faye, they just decide to go along with it for the sake of bodily preservation.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 07 Jun 2010, 11:19
Faye's behavior is only wrong if it actually bothers/offends the people she hangs out with and does it around...If the people in QC universe actually cared that Faye was punching people, then they would stand up to Faye and say hey, stop hitting people or we aren't going to be friends anymore.  If no one in the qc universe actually seems to care or think its a problem, then I see no reason why I should care about behavior deemed acceptable in a social circle.
I definitely see where you're coming from, but requiring an ice pack means it is doing damage.

Perhaps they don't speak up because they're afraid of her?

Has anyone really stood up to Faye before and said, "Stop it, your behavior is entirely unacceptable." Dora's probably gotten the closest.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: MegaLexi on 07 Jun 2010, 11:50
Has anyone really stood up to Faye before and said, "Stop it, your behavior is entirely unacceptable." Dora's probably gotten the closest.

Once or twice that I can remember. I remember Raven semi-accidentally doing it over her being a gigantic bitch to people, and she damn near had a breakdown over it.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Lost Coastlines on 07 Jun 2010, 12:16
Perhaps they don't speak up because they're afraid of her?

Dora was mighty afraid of Faye here: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=511 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=511)

And it's not as if she's the type who would threaten a total stranger with a broadsword or anything: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1323 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1323)

Penelope was obviously petrified in terror during this whole ordeal: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1052 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1052)

Faye's the extreme, but QC women apparently run pretty violent.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 07 Jun 2010, 12:23
Once or twice that I can remember. I remember Raven semi-accidentally doing it over her being a gigantic bitch to people, and she damn near had a breakdown over it.
I don't know if it's what you had in mind, and I can't find the comic, but I remember Raven saying something along the line of "Aw! Poor Faye! Having to face the consequences of your actions..." with a perfectly innocent face.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jun 2010, 12:23
Faye's not the extreme. Remember Vespavenger.

Isn't it odd that the only times Dora has corrected Faye were when Faye was being verbally abusive?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jun 2010, 12:26
Raven points out consequences to Faye (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=444).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 12:31
Martin had easy outs to move in with Dora if he wanted to escape or to not seeking out an apartment with Faye when they moved.  Angus was being tossed about well before he and Faye were even a possible thing, including having warm water dumped on him via coffee pot, being thrown across a bar, and being SCOOOOOOOOOOORNed clear out of CoD :P  So I think either of them being terrified domestic abuse victims is somewhat unlikely.

Personally I'm with Jander on this.  Play hitting isn't uncommon even if the strength is occasionally overestimated; honestly I took today's strip as Angus playing up being hit.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 07 Jun 2010, 12:47

I could just imagine Marigold snapping, and trying to be exactly like Faye in every way. 

I'm expecting something more along the lines of a cat fight, myself.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Jander on 07 Jun 2010, 13:12
I definitely see where you're coming from, but requiring an ice pack means it is doing damage.

Ehhh just means the person is a little sensitive to pain, and sure maybe it will leave a bruise, but it's not like she's "injured" anyone.  I wonder what Angus did that supposedly warranted it, but obviously he doesn't really seem to care.  If someone punched me and I had a problem with it I wouldn't go into the living room to ask about an ice pack.

In other news...
Raven's talk to Faye isn't even scolding, it's sarcasm/comedy.  It's not an actual friend saying, your behavior needs to stop or we're through.  It's a coworker teasing her general sour attitude.  And I agree with other people in that the QC world isnt exactly a pacifist world and a little bit of punching doesn't seem so bad compared to other issues.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 07 Jun 2010, 13:27
She's thrown hot coffee on him.  It's pretty obvious that Angus likes the pain, if you get my drift.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 07 Jun 2010, 13:37
People should start punching Faye back, methinks...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 07 Jun 2010, 14:45
People should start punching Faye back, methinks...

Methinks that if any of the guys did that then the forum would explode with debate about violence against women. I do not think Jeph really wants the cast to be beating on each other that much.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: smilesvssmirks on 07 Jun 2010, 15:10
Leaving a bruise and requiring an ice pack IS injuring. It's not about the person being "a little sensitive" to pain. That makes it sound like it's the punchee's fault for being hurt and they should "just be tougher". Coming from someone who bruises all. the. damn. time. from even the littlest stuff: bruises suck. They are tender and sore and can take forever to go away. Just because Faye's group of friends seem to not have that much of a problem with her violence doesn't mean that her behavior is okay. These people aren't doing anything that truly justifies the non-playful violence she's inflicting upon them. If a guy takes sexual advantage of a falling down drunk barely cognitive girl, and all his friends don't have a problem with it, does that make what he's done okay? No, it does not. Faye is a bitch 98% of the time to 99% of all people but any time someone throws it back at her she gets intensely defensive, acts wounded, and lashes out violently. If I was Faye's friend, it would certainly piss me off. She'd hit me too hard just once for sassing her back and she'd get a fist in her jaw. And I'm not even a violent person, really.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nightson on 07 Jun 2010, 15:36
Just because Faye's group of friends seem to not have that much of a problem with her violence doesn't mean that her behavior is okay.

Yes it does. 

If a guy takes sexual advantage of a falling down drunk barely cognitive girl, and all his friends don't have a problem with it, does that make what he's done okay? No, it does not.

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Kugai on 07 Jun 2010, 15:55
Well, at least Hanners is there - she knows from personal experience the methods of Hard Rebooting a person.   :-D


So, does this mean Malaysian Battle Spatulas at 10 paces?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 07 Jun 2010, 15:56
People should start punching Faye back, methinks...

Methinks that if any of the guys did that then the forum would explode with debate about violence against women. I do not think Jeph really wants the cast to be beating on each other that much.

Unfortunately, that's the double standard we live with today.  Girls can give a hard hit and not receive one back without serious accusations that should've been thrown at HER first.  I'd like to see Jeph challenge that though (I am a lady by the way).

On a less serious note, I have friends who rough house (to the point of bruises) constantly.  They enjoy it.  If Faye is really doing this out of play, Angus should start 'playing' back. 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 07 Jun 2010, 16:26

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

Um. So if the drunk girl has low self-esteem or other issues, and when she wakes up decides that "she probably deserved it"or it wasn't such a big deal (and maybe it's happened before), that makes it ok? NO, because the act is despicable regardless of the victim's tolerance for it.

In many parts of the world, groups of guys DO consider it "ok" to take advantage of women, and women are encouraged to just buck up and accept it too. Still doesn't make it ok.

In other parts of the world, it isn't considered out of the ordinary for a man to beat his wife, and if she gets hit, the wife doesn't consider leaving her husband because "it's not really a big deal," "he only hits me, it's not like he breaks bones or does real damage" and "it's just something all women have to deal with." Still doesn't make it ok.

For a less emotionally abrasive example, take drinking--something else Faye has a problem with, and which she's been called on (although not without prompting from someone outside her Dora-Marten inner circle).  Imagine a group of friends where one of them drinks to the point of blacking out on a regular basis, acts dangerously when drunk, etc. Even if no one calls the drinker on the problem, and greet each blackout as "Oh well, haha, there goes Tom again!" "Oh, we keep that puke bucket specifically for Tommergencies"--that doesn't make Tom's behavior not a problem somehow. Outside observers are still entitled to look at the situation and go "uh, that's not good, and not ok."

I don't care that Dora, Marten and Angus for some reason have decided that "it's just Faye!" and they're willing to accept that behavior--it is unacceptable and they're enablers. She hits people to blow off steam or for fun or when she's irritated, and she leaves painful bruises. Not just "accidentally" or sometimes, but pretty much every time. She's punched Hannelore and bruised her! She thinks it is ok to hurt people for her entertainment or as a way of expressing displeasure. That is NOT an acceptable mindset, and I don't care what her friends think of it.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Sorflakne on 07 Jun 2010, 17:08
Panel 4:  Aaaaand Mari's heart is torn apart by a bladestorming warrior (WoW joke...you won't get it if you don't play).

People should start punching Faye back, methinks...

Methinks that if any of the guys did that then the forum would explode with debate about violence against women. I do not think Jeph really wants the cast to be beating on each other that much.
I would never hit a woman, but if she came at me swinging for real and not playing around, I'll do what's necessary for self-defense, even if it means clocking her in the jaw.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 07 Jun 2010, 17:17
I would never hit a woman, but if she came at me swinging for real and not playing around, I'll do what's necessary for self-defense, even if it means clocking her in the jaw.

As you should.  Women who hit and know they won't get hit back are cowards anyway.  Faye needs someone to clean her clock.  Please Jeph?  Pretty please?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 17:24

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

Um. So if the drunk girl has low self-esteem or other issues, and when she wakes up decides that "she probably deserved it"or it wasn't such a big deal (and maybe it's happened before), that makes it ok? NO, because the act is despicable regardless of the victim's tolerance for it.

Its a flawed comparison because alcohol impairs one's judgment.  She can't be ok or not ok with it, which defaults to no consent.  Acceptance after the fact is not the same as consent either.

The guys are ok with it as and right after they are being hit, sober or no.  Why judge for them in that case?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 07 Jun 2010, 18:05
It's more socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, than for a man to hit a woman.  Neither should be acceptable, but I was punched by plenty of girls in school; you couldn't really complain about it, and god help you if you hit back.  But, I think if either Marten or Angus were to say to Faye, 'Don't hit me anymore', she'd probably get the message and back off.  Or she might've gotten the message once Angus comes back with an ice-pak covering a huge welt on his arm...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Prince of Space on 07 Jun 2010, 18:36
But, I think if either Marten or Angus were to say to Faye, 'Don't hit me anymore', she'd probably get the message and back off.

THIS.  Marten should've done that a long time ago.  Hopefully Angus will call her out on it. 

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nightson on 07 Jun 2010, 18:47

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

Um. So if the drunk girl has low self-esteem or other issues, and when she wakes up decides that "she probably deserved it"or it wasn't such a big deal (and maybe it's happened before), that makes it ok? NO, because the act is despicable regardless of the victim's tolerance for it.

In many parts of the world, groups of guys DO consider it "ok" to take advantage of women, and women are encouraged to just buck up and accept it too. Still doesn't make it ok.

In other parts of the world, it isn't considered out of the ordinary for a man to beat his wife, and if she gets hit, the wife doesn't consider leaving her husband because "it's not really a big deal," "he only hits me, it's not like he breaks bones or does real damage" and "it's just something all women have to deal with." Still doesn't make it ok.

For a less emotionally abrasive example, take drinking--something else Faye has a problem with, and which she's been called on (although not without prompting from someone outside her Dora-Marten inner circle).  Imagine a group of friends where one of them drinks to the point of blacking out on a regular basis, acts dangerously when drunk, etc. Even if no one calls the drinker on the problem, and greet each blackout as "Oh well, haha, there goes Tom again!" "Oh, we keep that puke bucket specifically for Tommergencies"--that doesn't make Tom's behavior not a problem somehow. Outside observers are still entitled to look at the situation and go "uh, that's not good, and not ok."

I don't care that Dora, Marten and Angus for some reason have decided that "it's just Faye!" and they're willing to accept that behavior--it is unacceptable and they're enablers. She hits people to blow off steam or for fun or when she's irritated, and she leaves painful bruises. Not just "accidentally" or sometimes, but pretty much every time. She's punched Hannelore and bruised her! She thinks it is ok to hurt people for her entertainment or as a way of expressing displeasure. That is NOT an acceptable mindset, and I don't care what her friends think of it.

In any act performed on someone, the opinion of the person being acted on is what matters.  If someone gets hit, and is fine with it then there's nothing wrong with that.  If someone gets hit, is not fine with it but says they're fine with it, well then that's not okay.  

Lack of protest cannot be taken for consent in many, many cases, but it hitting someone in the arm it's a good indicator.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Jun 2010, 18:55
There is only one way to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: LeeC on 07 Jun 2010, 19:35
There is only one way to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.
im for this, not because of faye, but because of how bad Tai would feel about blurting that out (granted she probably never knew the situation with merigold) and it would make for an interesting turn of events.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 07 Jun 2010, 19:36
There is only one way to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.


Here's to hoping Marigold never played the School Days visual novel.  
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: ross_teneyck on 07 Jun 2010, 20:30
Re: Marigold... QC characters tend to be self-reflective enough that she will probably acknowledge (perhaps after an initial outburst) that she cannot legitimately consider this a betrayal on Angus' part.

But it's going to feel like a betrayal, and that's going to hurt.  And she'll probably conclude (wrongly) that all his talk about "You're great!" was just a lie, and she sucks and is awful because if she really was great he'd be going out with her instead of Faye.  Which isn't really logical, but feelings often aren't.  This has the potential to do a real number on her self-esteem, which is sad because she was only just starting to get some.

Dale, I think, is likely to be a good person for her to relate to -- whether or not that ever progresses to "relationship" -- simply because what they have in common -- WoW -- is something she cares about enough that it takes her out of herself.  When she's interacting with Dale, even if it's just calling him "Alliance Scum," she's not self-conscious -- she's not thinking about herself at all, she's thinking about WoW.  And that is a good start to relating to someone as an actual other person and not just in terms of how they affect you.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 20:32
There is only one dway to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.

If Marigold strikes Faye, she would (at least realistically) get excommunicated from the group for the exact reasons people are criticizing Faye.
Not that there would be anything wrong with that ;P

Despite the earlier comments, there is a distinction between playfully smacking someone for being a smartass and attacking someone with real anger / jealousy.

Not that I expect it either way, you would think the Twitter feed wouldn't have ended quite so lightheartedly if that happened.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 07 Jun 2010, 21:26
Except that Faye's punches do bruise the person she's punching, even if the person was only being a smartass. Sure, perhaps she doesn't punch out of real anger/jealousy, but she does leave a mark identical to the punches that are punched with that intent.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 21:40
Except that Faye's punches do bruise the person she's punching, even if the person was only being a smartass. Sure, perhaps she doesn't punch out of real anger/jealousy, but she does leave a mark identical to the punches that are punched with that intent.

So.  What.

You're focusing on the bruise and not the consent.  None of her "victims" seem to to see it as more than playful.  They aren't drugged or drunk or being taken advantage of.  So who are you to condemn consensual adults?

I can understand if play punches aren't part of your clique how it would seem weird, but there are plenty of social circles where it's just as acceptable as being a smart ass or play insulting friends.  Those would probably seem weird to outsiders too.

Edit: I mean, I wouldn't like it, but then I probably wouldn't be friends with Faye :P  But I wouldn't condemn those that choose to hang out with her either, warts and all.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: St.Clair on 07 Jun 2010, 21:41
Ohhhhh, crap.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 07 Jun 2010, 22:00
Except that Faye's punches do bruise the person she's punching, even if the person was only being a smartass. Sure, perhaps she doesn't punch out of real anger/jealousy, but she does leave a mark identical to the punches that are punched with that intent.

So.  What.

You're focusing on the bruise and not the consent.  None of her "victims" seem to to see it as more than playful.  They aren't drugged or drunk or being taken advantage of.  So who are you to condemn consensual adults?

I can understand if play punches aren't part of your clique how it would seem weird, but there are plenty of social circles where it's just as acceptable as being a smart ass or play insulting friends.  Those would probably seem weird to outsiders too.

I wasn't trying to condemn then, and I certainly don't think I mentioned anything about being drugged/drunk/taken advantage of. I agree that no one seems to take too much offense at Faye's actions. But I disagree that the bruising/harm from Faye's punching doesn't deserve as much consideration as the consent to playful punchings. To phrase a bit differently: does the consent for play punching still count when the person actually becomes injured from the playing punching? I was just trying to point out that Faye's punches don't seem very playful, at least in my view. I understand that people play punch all the time, and sure the intensity behind the punch varies, but Faye punches (even if playing) with the intent to harm (which is why it doesn't seem playful, at least to me).

Also, given that Marten was Faye's target for a lot of the early punchings, at least, and not only did he have low self-esteem at that point in time, he also really liked Faye a lot, and seemed willing to put up with a lot of whatever from her because of that. So was he really consenting because he didn't care, or was he consenting because he didn't feel comfortable speaking against it/was afraid he'd lose Faye if he did?

Faye is really a physically violent person, whether or not her reaction seems fitting for the situation (though she will apologize if she reacts instinctually). Sure, her circle of friends doesn't seem to mind, and even tease her about it, and of course every group has its own dynamics. I think Faye just takes it too far, and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually she really did seriously injure someone because she feels the person "deserves" her physical anger wrath.

Incidentally, I think Angus maybe got too physically close to Faye, since she reacts most often with violence when that happens.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 22:31
*clipped*

I wasn't trying to condemn then, and I certainly don't think I mentioned anything about being drugged/drunk/taken advantage of.
Sorry, that was sort of responding to Jack.

Quote
To phrase a bit differently: does the consent for play punching still count when the person actually becomes injured from the playing punching?
Why wouldn't it?  It's not an isolated incident, they not only shrug it off but continue to freely associate with Faye without telling her off for it.

Quote
but Faye punches (even if playing) with the intent to harm (which is why it doesn't seem playful, at least to me).
Fair enough, but she never punches anyone who objects to that.  You may as well condemn all roughhousing and sports.  Faye is nothing but consistent with this and yet its not considered serious by Martin, Angus, or even Pintsize.  As far as I can remember, Faye has never intentionally hurt, even with an accidentally strong play punch, someone who did not already expect this sort of behavior; Dora has never been punched hard despite multiple cases of tickling and molesting Faye, for instance.

Quote
Also, given that Marten was Faye's target for a lot of the early punchings, at least, and not only did he have low self-esteem at that point in time, he also really liked Faye a lot, and seemed willing to put up with a lot of whatever from her because of that. So was he really consenting because he didn't care, or was he consenting because he didn't feel comfortable speaking against it/was afraid he'd lose Faye if he did?
Fair point, for the beginning of the relationship.  However, he's still ok with it now (when he has Dora), and he had two easy outs; once when they moved, and once when Dora asked him to move in with her (post Fayefixation).  He clearly doesn't consider the occasional smartass tax as a signifigant enough factor to want to escape, and in fact was very upset at the prospect of moving physically away from her despite no longer pursuing her romantically.

And Angus has received worse injury long before they really knew each-other.  In fact, he went out of his way to provoke Faye into it.  There was a time where that was the majority of what he knew of Faye and he still pursued her despite it, clearly not negative factor.

Quote
Faye is really a physically violent person,
I strongly disagree.  Has she ever lashed out in anger with the intent to seriously harm?  The closest might be Pintsize, but he's super durable, potentially doesn't feel it much, and clearly doesn't consider it a serious threat worth of avoiding Faye for.  The worst injuries she's inflicted have been play punches that the recipients seem not to care about or outright accept.

Basically, if that's what they like, who cares.  None of those characters needs a knight to save them from the Fayedragon.  If they don't want to put up with it, they'll speak up.  Until then there is no point to jump to their preemptive defense and condemn their decision to accept/embrace that aspect of Faye.  For her own part, Faye seems relatively restrained and exact as to the level of contact she'll make with any specific one of her friends.  You may not relish in the idea of being hit that hard, but if you were Faye's friend, odds are she would not hit you that hard.  Different comfort levels, different behavior.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 07 Jun 2010, 22:53
To be honest, it doesn't seem to ME like everyone is actually "ok" with the punchings, in the sense of "really does not mind them." Instead, what I see is people not actually enjoying them, but feeling like they're something they have to tolerate, or something that's "not worth making a fuss about," and I am saying it IS worth making a fuss about. Most people, for instance, aren't really allowed to punch Faye back--if Marten or Angus punched her back and left a bruise, there'd be hell to pay. I'm not comfortable with that dynamic, personally. When friends roughhouse and playfully punch each other, usually the point is that it is "each other." Instead, here I'm getting the feeling that the guys just basically feel like they have to put up with it because it would make them look like wusses if they don't.  Or that because she's a girl they're somehow obligated to put up with it.

If it weren't a one-way street, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.  Take Dora--Dora really does seem to be on an equal level with Faye, she's a girl (and not a shy one) so she can hit back, and she's playfully (but obviously playfully) tickled and molested Faye before. Note that Faye has NEVER hit Dora with the same force as Marten or Angus. Or even possibly at all, I can't recall.  (I know that Dora punched Faye on the shoulder once, but that was very exaggeratedly drawn to be a strictly playful, and seemingly light, friendly mock-punching.)  This tells me that: with a person who might hit her back, Faye does not punch, and definitely not forcefully enough to bruise. So... she only punches the guys, because they can't hit back? Not cool.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 07 Jun 2010, 23:04
Quote from: Moxie
but Faye punches (even if playing) with the intent to harm (which is why it doesn't seem playful, at least to me).
Fair enough, but she never punches anyone who objects to that.  You may as well condemn all roughhousing and sports.  Faye is nothing but consistent with this and yet its not considered serious by Martin, Angus, or even Pintsize.  As far as I can remember, Faye has never intentionally hurt, even with an accidentally strong play punch, someone who did not already expect this sort of behavior; Dora has never been punched hard despite multiple cases of tickling and molesting Faye, for instance.

I thought it was interesting that Faye does only seem to punch males, so I actually have been archive crawling to see if she did punch any females. You're right that Dora gets away with a lot concerning Faye, and it sort of seems to start here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=416). Marten tells Faye she's loosening up, but it was Dora who grabbed at her, and apparently it didn't even seem to occur to Faye to punch Dora over that (despite the fact had it been a male, all other signs point to Faye automatically reacting with a punch). I'm not sure if it stems from her issues with her dad and trusting men, or what. Anyway, I also found this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=617) where Faye uses her issues to distract her sister before boob-punching her (which really hurts!) So, Faye has indeed punched a female, and her mother witnesses it and admits she would fake cry to (her brother?) to distract him for punches. So maybe this is just a learned behavior for Faye anyway.

(EDIT: Now, I know that dynamics between siblings and friends are very different, and making fun of oneself versus friends making fun of one's flaws is a different situation, but seeing Faye react to her sister there - haha, used my issues and pulled on over on you! - and seeing her reaction here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=980) - when an irritated Marten has to deal with a mess and Faye makes a remark that ticks him off more, so he sort of calls her an alcoholic and she gets all "waah, how could you be so mean and inconsiderate of my issues!" with him - is annoying to me. Faye seems to have some inconsistent standards regarding what people can do/say to her, especially concerning what she can do to males and how that can be retaliated. I don't wanna invalidate her issues, but I do think that Faye sits on an awful high horse.)


Quote from: TAG
Quote from: Moxie
Also, given that Marten was Faye's target for a lot of the early punchings, at least, and not only did he have low self-esteem at that point in time, he also really liked Faye a lot, and seemed willing to put up with a lot of whatever from her because of that. So was he really consenting because he didn't care, or was he consenting because he didn't feel comfortable speaking against it/was afraid he'd lose Faye if he did?
Fair point, for the beginning of the relationship.  However, he's still ok with it now (when he has Dora), and he had two easy outs; once when they moved, and once when Dora asked him to move in with her (post Fayefixation).  He clearly doesn't consider the occasional smartass tax as a signifigant enough factor to want to escape, and in fact was very upset at the prospect of moving physically away from her despite no longer pursuing her romantically.

And Angus has received worse injury long before they really knew each-other.  In fact, he went out of his way to provoke Faye into it.  There was a time where that was the majority of what he knew of Faye and he still pursued her despite it, clearly not negative factor.

Haha, honestly Marten and Faye's dynamics baffle me - her behavior towards him was really cruel, I always thought. I think she's a much better person now (yay character growth!) and I'd bet Marten does too, which then makes sense why he doesn't want to lose her as a friend. At any rate, more power to him for that. I don't necessarily agree with his choices in not speaking up to Faye, but whatever.

I agree with you about Angus ('cause you're talking about her throwing him across the room, right?), but I can't agree that he knowingly provoked Faye into that sort of violence. I mean, Faye tells him she's gonna throw him through a plate-glass window (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=780), but this is the first time he's talked with her outside of CoD, isn't it? As far as he knows, Faye's all sass - she just says stuff, it's all a joke. I would definitely say he goaded her, but I don't think he really believed she would do such a thing. Though yeah, he continues his pursuit of her, so I guess she just is all about the intrigue for him. (And to his credit, in the current comic he doesn't try to make excuses or anything - he takes it as par for the course...which I suppose he'd after to, after being impressed with her ability to throw him across a room earlier).


Quote from: TAG
Quote from: Moxie
Faye is really a physically violent person,
I strongly disagree.  Has she ever lashed out in anger with the intent to harm?  The closest might be Pintsize, but he's super durable, potentially doesn't feel it much, and clearly doesn't consider it a serious threat worth of avoiding Faye for.  The worst injuries she's inflicted have been play punches that the recipients seem not to care about or outright accept.

I just meant it in the sense that physical violence seems to always be her fallback - Faye almost always seems to hit first, ask questions second. Or something to that effect. (Haha, and yes, I believe she did lash out in anger when she threw Angus across the room!) EDIT: She has also admitted to using violence as a method to getting a male's attention (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=13).

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 07 Jun 2010, 23:11
Sorry one last response before bed.

@Jack

You have good points, but as I've said before, both Martin and Angus had ways to surreptitiously extract themselves from a relationship with Faye if they cared.  In Angus' case he was still drawn to her despite little else other than a sharp wit and tongue.

As to the point about Dora, I guess we see that differently.  I think she doesn't hit Dora because she knows Dora would not be ok with it, the same way she doesn't hit Raven or even Penny.  Heck, she doesn't even hit Steve to the best of my recall abilities and he's probably physically most capable of handling it.  Nor do I recall her hitting Sven till they were sleeping together.  She does, however, hit her sister (right in the teat), and I somehow don't see her sister as a retaliation safe target.  In other words, she really only hits people who she is / wants to be comfortable with and who are willing to tolerate it.  Honestly I've seen it in real life as an endearment / social thing so often that this just doesn't seem weird to me at all.

Edit:
Gah clearly I am too slow.

@Moxie
Re:Angus, it's alluded that she's thrown coffee of varying degrees at him several times, as well as tossing him out of the bar.  And I would say he goes out of his way.  Meeting at the bar may originally have been a coincidence but she told him to leave her alone and he persisted.  On a similar note he bought the silly purple shirt to provoke her into snark, and, since he never actually drinks his coffee, he was only there to provoke her into snark ever.  He was kinda creepy / stalkerish in that behavior, to be fair.

Re: Faye
I mostly covered things in the Jack response you hit on several of the issues too in your own post.

Note, I never said Faye was a particularly good person of even a particularly good friend (better than Marigold though, or at least less grating ;P); I just thought people's accusation that she was truly abusive are overstated.  She has grown, she still has issues (that she's at least occasionally trying to work through), but I don't think she or Martin or Angus see "Fayemergancies" as anything more than terms of endearment.  And I think the point that she never strikes out in real anger is important.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 07 Jun 2010, 23:32
Siblings are different, though.

I think she doesn't hit Penny because not only would Penny hit back, but I agree, she would be really upset by it. I will agree that Faye tries not to hit people who would be really upset, but I still don't feel like the other people she hits are in fact totally happy with it.

I think she doesn't hit Steve because he's not actually her friend and she doesn't quite know how he would react. Including the possibility that he might in fact hit her back, hard.


Marten said that Faye loosening up, so that he didn't have to "fear for his life" whenever they horsed around, made her "more fun to be around." He said this sincerely, not jokingly.  This, to me, sounds like him admitting that although he may tolerate the punchings, he does not enjoy them, and would take it as a positive if Faye were to cut them out.  Once again, it feels like Faye's male friends just enable her because they value her company enough to put up with the violence, but it's not that they "don't mind it at all" so much as they don't want to lose her, and feel like they have to deal with it to retain her company.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Jun 2010, 00:07
The original reason Faye doesn't hit Dora is that she's her boss, and she's scared of losing her job.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heranje on 08 Jun 2010, 00:35
Oh no quick everyone start yelling about how Dora is also abusive omgomg.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 08 Jun 2010, 00:35
Um. I'm not really impressed with Dora today.

Not only does she apparently blame everything on Marten (which I don't agree about at all - accidents happen, and quite frankly, I disagree that this was anything close to Marten's fault), but she also totally dismisses Hanners. Because, apparently, Dora has more experience. Never mind that it was Hanners who was there for Marigold after Marigold kissed Angus.

(And if the whole idea was to keep the whole thing a secret from Marigold to begin with, none of them are being good friends to her.)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: LeeC on 08 Jun 2010, 00:37
im confused, how is marten and idiot and at fault? :|
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TheHappyBerry on 08 Jun 2010, 00:41
Wait....why did Marten get in trouble?  Until  Marigold started questioning him, I thought his statement of "Meh, you know how it is with Faye" was appropriately vague.  If anything, it was Tai that was the IDIOT and even she had the excuse of not knowing any better.  Just when I was starting to like Dora again, she has to go back into crazy over reactionary bitch mode...

The last two panels did manage to make me laugh though.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Jun 2010, 00:43
Because he made the first somewhat thoughtless remark about Angus and Faye that Tai explained to Marigold. And it's a thing my wife calls me out on as well...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: AngryCallCenterAgent on 08 Jun 2010, 00:48
Marten, what have I told you about inserting your foot into your mouth? First, wash your feet. Second, add ketchup.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 08 Jun 2010, 01:02
Oh no quick everyone start yelling about how Dora is also abusive omgomg.

Ok, you know what? I give up. I think this strip proves that rather than the punching being Faye's problem, the real issue behind it is that Jeph just thinks that women hitting men is funny somehow.  And although "over the top violence" is an old gag frequently used in many comics, Jeph exacerbates it by putting it into a comic that is mostly realistic, and having the violence result in actual bruising that isn't a one-panel throwaway gag.  As such, I can't hold Faye-the-character responsible for it, and just have to strongly disagree with Jeph on this particular idea.

Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: brew on 08 Jun 2010, 01:11

a comic that is mostly realistic

wut
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Fenriswolf on 08 Jun 2010, 01:14
Well yeah, I agree Jack, and find the deliberate obtuseness of most of the people on here irritating enough to not bother debating seriously most of the time.

I always have been kinda on the fence about Faye's behaviour but I've come down on the side of "inappropriate" with these recent strips. Like you say, it is not at all reciprocal, and basically her utter sexism has always got up my nose. Frankly I've never quite seen how she was supposed to be cruel to Marten, but hitting people hard when you would not take the same treatment is bullshit.

And yeah, Dora's being a dick today. :x
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: J on 08 Jun 2010, 01:19
i find it interesting, that as much implied punchery as there is in this comic, i can remember very few instances of anyone getting punched 'on camera'. people talk about getting punched, and rub there arms after getting punched, but how often do we actually see them getting punched?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heranje on 08 Jun 2010, 01:28
Oh no quick everyone start yelling about how Dora is also abusive omgomg.

Ok, you know what? I give up. I think this strip proves that rather than the punching being Faye's problem, the real issue behind it is that Jeph just thinks that women hitting men is funny somehow.  And although "over the top violence" is an old gag frequently used in many comics, Jeph exacerbates it by putting it into a comic that is mostly realistic, and having the violence result in actual bruising that isn't a one-panel throwaway gag.  As such, I can't hold Faye-the-character responsible for it, and just have to strongly disagree with Jeph on this particular idea.

Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.
I agree with you on some points - I just found it very entertaining that after there had been this long discussion about Faye's violence, Dora went on to bruise Marten in the next strip. I think the problem is that with the exception of this whole violent and abusive thing that mainly the women have going - with coffee being poured on CoD customers and those customers generally being treated like dirt, Faye punching people, others punching people, etc - the interaction and relations in the strip are realistically portrayed. Yes, I know, little talking robots, but there's a difference between a story in a fantastical setting were the portrayal of people and their interaction is still realistic, and a story with cartoonish relationships and over-the-top comic actions such as random punchings. When the rest of the way the characters relate to each other is portrayed realistically, violence that belongs in a more simple, cartoonish dynamic seems out-of-place. But I think we simply have to accept that discrepancy, and that "friendly" bruising punches dealt by the QC cast is not meant to be seen as actual abuse. Whether or not it's funny is another question entirely, and I pretty much agree that "women punching men is funny, men punching women is TERRIBLE" is a sexist attitude, but it's not one Jeph is alone in.

Look up collegehumor's "Robot girlfriend" skit on YouTube. That one pretty much illustrates the absurdity of seeing women's violence towards men as 'okay'. But though it's not a good attitude, it's not something that bothers me excessively - I like QC, so I'd rather overlook that issue than allow it to ruin my enjoyment of the comic.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 08 Jun 2010, 01:30
(And if the whole idea was to keep the whole thing a secret from Marigold to begin with, none of them are being good friends o her.)
I think the whole idea was to wait for the right moment, and to find the right way to inform her. It's easy, from our point of view, to overlook how touchy and complicated such a situation can be, especially now that their course of action backfired spectacularly, but let's try and figure out what else they could have done: tough stuff.

I'm not sure Dora is right to dismiss Hannelore's help. She may be more experienced, but Hanners is really Marigold's closest friend. If anything, I think they should go together.

Although, on second thought, I'm wondering: how much did Hanners know about where Angus and Faye were at? I can't figure it out by the comics. But if she knew the whole of it, then Marigold could feel even more betrayed precisely because she's a close friend. "Why didn't you tell me?" In this case, Hannelore'd better be left out for now. But I'm not sure.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 08 Jun 2010, 01:36

a comic that is mostly realistic

wut

You know. As opposed to this:
(http://www.joshreads.com/images/09/08/i090806bccrank.jpg)

(http://joshreads.com/images/10/03/i100315bb.jpg)  (http://joshreads.com/images/07/09/i070917bb.jpg)

As in, the people portrayed generally follow most laws of physics, have realistic pain thresholds and recovery periods (rather than being comically beat up in one panel and fine in the next), and are not particularly exaggerated in their emotions, reactions, and capabilities. Characters not caricatures.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Akima on 08 Jun 2010, 02:46
...ketamine?!
I vaguely knew it was a veterinary anaesthetic, but I had to look up its other uses.

As for Faye's violence, people really need to get a life. This is a cartoon. One in which inoffensive Marten beat a kung-fu monk senseless with a frying-pan, and Steve blew up a volcano. I mean, seriously, if you can't get through the week without a dose of personal outrage, there are plenty of real issues out there to give you your fix...

Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.
How fortunate we are to have you to keep us on the straight and narrow.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 08 Jun 2010, 02:53
What guy wouldn't expect a hit to the arm (at least) after a comment like that?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 08 Jun 2010, 05:33
What guy wouldn't expect a hit to the arm (at least) after a comment like that?
Agreed.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: sudamerican on 08 Jun 2010, 05:48
im confused, how is marten and idiot and at fault? :|
yeah, i'm wondering the same thing
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: vonschiller on 08 Jun 2010, 05:52
The week of 1,000 punches!

Wednesday: Cosette punches Steve
Thursday: Tai punches Hanners
Friday: Marigold gets a switchblade and cuts Faye or Angus
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 08 Jun 2010, 07:15
Wednesday: Cosette punches Steve, misses him, hits a wall, and breaks her wrist and six phalanxes
Fix'd it for you.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 08 Jun 2010, 07:38
OK, I've been wondering this for two days now...

When Faye punched Angus, everyone fixated on the punching. 

But Faye had said, "He deserved it..."

We don't know what stupid/snarky/thoughtless thing Angus said to Faye, and quite frankly, Marten's attempt at being funny would earn any of us males-in-a-relationship a punch. 

Maybe Angus did deserve it...? 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Jander on 08 Jun 2010, 08:21
Well honestly I would hope that my significant other could actually see the humor in telling me not to say something stupid and then saying something stupid that OBVIOUSLY was intended solely as a joke and not a statement of fact.

But again, if he doesn't have a problem with it, then whatever works for him.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 08 Jun 2010, 09:09
Well honestly I would hope that my significant other could actually see the humor in telling me not to say something stupid and then saying something stupid that OBVIOUSLY was intended solely as a joke and not a statement of fact.

But again, if he doesn't have a problem with it, then whatever works for him.



Everyone should probably keep in mind what Marten's mother does for a living and how that probably affected his perception of healthy relationships.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 08 Jun 2010, 09:20
OK, I've been wondering this for two days now...

When Faye punched Angus, everyone fixated on the punching. 

But Faye had said, "He deserved it..."

We don't know what stupid/snarky/thoughtless thing Angus said to Faye, and quite frankly, Marten's attempt at being funny would earn any of us males-in-a-relationship a punch. 

Maybe Angus did deserve it...? 

Yeah, what Angus said to Faye wasn't described, but in my head, he made a terribly obvious and pervy pie joke -- it'd be in context and fits his general foot-in-mouth approach.

I was actually expecting today's strip to show Marigold crying up in Hanners room, but it seems she's left the apartment?  Unless the apartment is so huge that it can somehow be unclear where someone has run off to within it.

Dora's overreacting and heading off to find Marigold so she can (s)mother her.  So how 'bout we ship those two instead?  Marigold is feeling vulnerable and needy, Dora is entranced by her large boobage . . .  What?  It's more frickin' plausible than Hanners/Marigold.   :-P
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: brew on 08 Jun 2010, 10:24

a comic that is mostly realistic

wut

You know. As opposed to this:



One in which inoffensive Marten beat a kung-fu monk senseless with a frying-pan, and Steve blew up a volcano.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Ferahgo the Assassin on 08 Jun 2010, 10:29
Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.

Jesus, you guys are a bunch of whiny pussies. It's a cartoon.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TheHappyBerry on 08 Jun 2010, 10:57
Because he made the first somewhat thoughtless remark about Angus and Faye that Tai explained to Marigold. And it's a thing my wife calls me out on as well...

I think his first response was appropriate, until he freaked out about it when questioned on it.  "Meh, you know how it is with Faye" to those that know her means fighting and flirting often go hand in hand.  However, to somebody that doesn't really know her, like Marigold, it could have meant that Faye just likes hitting people.  Sadly, instead of being quick on his feet to say something like that, he started sputtering.  I still think it could have been saved if Tai hadn't spoken up.  Either way, I still don't think Marten deserved Dora criticizing him like that, both when calling him an idiot and telling him not to say anything else stupid for the rest of the night.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Jun 2010, 12:17
Quote from: many people
It's a cartoon

It's a comedy and drama, populated with characters who have clear and realistic personalities, which is represented as a cartoon. Discussion of the behavior of fictional characters is something you can get a degree in: dismissing doing so because "it's just a cartoon" is a prejudiced refusal to acknowledge that a comic strip is a valid storytelling medium.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: J on 08 Jun 2010, 12:41
"it's just a work of fiction told via a visual medium in order to entertain and amuse" does not have the same ring to it though. either way it's a valid point, people are getting surprisingly emotional over the antics of nonexistent people.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 08 Jun 2010, 13:21
And getting emotional over such nonexistent people is, I think, an excellent sign of Jeph's storytelling skills. To become emotionally invested in the characters shows that Jeph has brought them to life, in a way.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Ferahgo the Assassin on 08 Jun 2010, 14:30
It's a comedy and drama, populated with characters who have clear and realistic personalities, which is represented as a cartoon. Discussion of the behavior of fictional characters is something you can get a degree in: dismissing doing so because "it's just a cartoon" is a prejudiced refusal to acknowledge that a comic strip is a valid storytelling medium.

Yeah, but getting this worked up - and many cases, downright offended - over something so ridiculous in a cartoon strikes me as massively pathetic. It's not like Jeph was making some kind of complex, heady philosophical or political point and that's what people are getting worked up about. No, the whining is due to one character lightly punching another in the arm.

Perspective, ya'll.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: brew on 08 Jun 2010, 14:35
It's a comedy and drama, populated with characters who have clear and realistic personalities, which is represented as a cartoon.

(http://questionablecontent.net/comics/783.png)
(http://questionablecontent.net/comics/721.png)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: QED on 08 Jun 2010, 15:16
Quote
Question: Most Likely to Do Something Incredibly Embarassing/Stupid This Week

Likely person: Tai.
Something stupid: Introduce Marigold to Jimbo.

Especially now, when it seems unlikely to have Angus around to remind Marigold that she can do better.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Sebastian on 08 Jun 2010, 15:42


Incidentally, I think Angus maybe got too physically close to Faye, since she reacts most often with violence when that happens.

Now, I could be wrong but I seem to note that Faye is only physically violent with the boys, I don't remember her ever punching one of the other girls, and only the boys she kinda "like" (marten , Angus, maybe Sven) did we even seen her "hit" Steve?

It is possible that the punching is some kind of sublimation, it is the only way she can let her go near to the boys she is attracted to, as it is possible that I looking waaaay too much into this. :)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heranje on 08 Jun 2010, 15:47
Quote
Question: Most Likely to Do Something Incredibly Embarassing/Stupid This Week

Likely person: Tai.
Something stupid: Introduce Marigold to Jimbo.

Especially now, when it seems unlikely to have Angus around to remind Marigold that she can do better.
All I can think is that that would result in Jimbo writing yaoi. And that would be awesomely terrible.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Jun 2010, 16:44
And getting emotional over such nonexistent people is, I think, an excellent sign of Jeph's storytelling skills. To become emotionally invested in the characters shows that Jeph has brought them to life, in a way.
That's what I was trying to say, only you put it better.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: laizeohbeets on 08 Jun 2010, 18:31
Quote
Question: Most Likely to Do Something Incredibly Embarassing/Stupid This Week

Likely person: Tai.
Something stupid: Introduce Marigold to Jimbo.

Especially now, when it seems unlikely to have Angus around to remind Marigold that she can do better.
All I can think is that that would result in Jimbo writing yaoi. And that would be awesomely terrible.

...I think I kind of want to see Jimbo write yaoi. Because that's hilarious.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 08 Jun 2010, 18:34
Do we want to talk about reality?  So hey, BP's gulf oil spill is likely killing hundreds of different species and the region will never recover.  Meanwhile, the middle east is on day 52,427 of 'oh god oh god everythings going to shit', McDonalds is recalling novelty Shrek glasses because they're apparently tainted with deadly cadmium, and the world economies in general are still tanking as they have been for what seems like more than a year.  On the plus side, Lady Gaga's new video apparently killed both twitter and youtube for a little while today, so that's funny...

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 08 Jun 2010, 18:42
Do we want to talk about reality?  So hey, BP's gulf oil spill is likely killing hundreds of different species and the region will never recover.  Meanwhile, the middle east is on day 52,427 of 'oh god oh god everythings going to shit', McDonalds is recalling novelty Shrek glasses because they're apparently tainted with deadly cadmium, and the world economies in general are still tanking as they have been for what seems like more than a year.  On the plus side, Lady Gaga's new video apparently killed both twitter and youtube for a little while today, so that's funny...



You forgot the acidification of the ocean from CO2 and the impending solar storm years!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 08 Jun 2010, 20:12
How fortunate we are to have you to keep us on the straight and narrow.

Well thanks for being a bitch. I said that was how I felt, I didn't say I expected or demanded anyone else to feel the same  way.

Quote from: many people
It's a cartoon

It's a comedy and drama, populated with characters who have clear and realistic personalities, which is represented as a cartoon. Discussion of the behavior of fictional characters is something you can get a degree in: dismissing doing so because "it's just a cartoon" is a prejudiced refusal to acknowledge that a comic strip is a valid storytelling medium.

Thank you.


So what, so it's a cartoon? I don't remember anyone going "sheesh, it's just a cartoon you guys!" when everyone was balling on Sven for being a horrible person and treating women like crap. No one accused anyone else of "getting surprisingly emotional over the antics of nonexistent people" when everybody was holding their breath over the latest twist in Faye's love life--or when people coo over how sympathetic Marigold or Hanners is. The whole "it's just a cartoon!/Geeze why get so emotional over fictional characters" argument only gets trotted out when people have nothing better to say to an interpretation of the characters and their actions that they disagree with.

People bitch out Dora all the time for acting in a way they think is not acceptable towards Marten and being an overly jealous, over-reacting girlfriend, and no one says "oh what does it matter if she rakes his balls over hot coals for the smallest little thing and yet he thinks she is the greatest girlfriend ever, it's just a cartoon!"  It's normal to take issue with the way certain relationships or situations are portrayed in media--including cartoons.

No, the whining is due to one character lightly punching another in the arm.

Hard enough to leave a sizeable bruise is not "lightly."

Do we want to talk about reality?  So hey, BP's gulf oil spill is likely killing hundreds of different species and the region will never recover.  Meanwhile, the middle east is on day 52,427 of 'oh god oh god everythings going to shit', McDonalds is recalling novelty Shrek glasses because they're apparently tainted with deadly cadmium, and the world economies in general are still tanking as they have been for what seems like more than a year. 

Oh right, of course, how could I forget, we are not allowed to complain or be concerned about anything as long as there is something else that could be considered More Important on the horizon! People in the US should really stop bothering with abortion rights and gay marriage issues because gays and women in other countries have it much worse and we should worry about that first! Also, complaining to your friends about your bad boss is not allowed because other people don't even have a job. And really, what are we all even doing wasting our time posting on this forum when we should be dedicating every extra bit of energy and mental effort trying to find a cure for cancer and AIDS?!!

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: vonschiller on 08 Jun 2010, 21:31
Oh right, of course, how could I forget, we are not allowed to complain or be concerned about anything as long as there is something else that could be considered More Important on the horizon! People in the US should really stop bothering with abortion rights and gay marriage issues because gays and women in other countries have it much worse and we should worry about that first! Also, complaining to your friends about your bad boss is not allowed because other people don't even have a job. And really, what are we all even doing wasting our time posting on this forum when we should be dedicating every extra bit of energy and mental effort trying to find a cure for cancer and AIDS?!!

Shit.

I know shit's bad right now. With all that starving bullshit. But I got a solution.

Now I understand everyone's shit's emotional right now. But listen up. I got a three point plan to fix everything. Number one, we got this guy Not Sure. Number two, he's smarter than anyone in history. And number three, he's gonna fix everything. I give you my word as President!

...

Seriously, we seem to need a Lighten up, Francis rule around here these past couple days...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Lost Coastlines on 08 Jun 2010, 22:04
Coming from someone who bruises all. the. damn. time. from even the littlest stuff: bruises suck. They are tender and sore and can take forever to go away.

If this is true, I'm sorry.  As someone else who gets bruises from so much as looking at my skin the wrong way, I completely disagree.  Maybe I've had one or two that have been tender, but nothing comes to mind.  Heck I'm poking one right now and it doesn't feel any different than when I poke myself somewhere without a bruise.  And that is one I got from being pushed into and pinned against an electrical box (accidentally).  Bit worse than a punch.  I'm not defending actual physical abuse - of which Faye is not guilty and frankly I think this discussion is getting close to the point of belittling actual victims of domestic violence - but seriously, when did inflicting one bruise while roughhousing become a big effing deal in this world, much less in the more comedic-violence-prone QC world?

and she leaves painful bruises

Do most people around here rarely get bruised?  Okay, in real life, Faye and Dora (and whoever else I can't think of right now) would not be punching this hard unless they were defending themselves.  Actually, I'm not sure Dora would be physically capable of punching someone hard enough to require an ice pack under any circumstances.  She's tiny and we know she doesn't work out.  In real life, Marten and Angus would not be going for ice packs every time they got a bruise.  Jeph apparently finds humor in some comedic violence and wussy men. In earlier strips, outrage at Faye's actions would have been reasonable.  But she has improved and doesn't hit people very often anymore.  Even in the real world, a playful punch, even one that caused a bruise, would not be a big deal.  Those that really dislike that behavior are free to avoid it, but some people like roughhousing and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them.

If some people find QC violence distasteful, that's fine, but is it really necessary to make a mountain out of mole hill?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Chaon on 08 Jun 2010, 22:53
Am I one of the few people who doesn't care if Faye punches guys she's close to? I have a few female friends like that, guys usually don't mind hanging out with girls like that, mainly because those kind of girls have a higher threshold before becoming truly pissed or offended that just makes them funner to joke and hang around with.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Kugai on 08 Jun 2010, 23:38
Marigold runs out of the apartment and runs into Sven.

Dora catches up with Marigold and finds her half drunk in Sven's arms

Dora misconstrues.

Next two panels - Sven in ICU and Dora behind bars.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 08 Jun 2010, 23:55
Dora hitting Marten reminded me of http://clanofthecats.com/cotc/cotc-catnips5-3/ (http://clanofthecats.com/cotc/cotc-catnips5-3/)[1].


[1] It's from a webcomic about a woman who turns into a panther when she gets stressed/annoyed.  The blue cat is the family pet.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 09 Jun 2010, 00:20
Quote
Question: Most Likely to Do Something Incredibly Embarassing/Stupid This Week

Likely person: Tai.
Something stupid: Introduce Marigold to Jimbo.

Especially now, when it seems unlikely to have Angus around to remind Marigold that she can do better.
All I can think is that that would result in Jimbo writing yaoi. And that would be awesomely terrible.
Err anything Jimbo writes is terrible, so what ?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heranje on 09 Jun 2010, 00:26
Quote
Question: Most Likely to Do Something Incredibly Embarassing/Stupid This Week

Likely person: Tai.
Something stupid: Introduce Marigold to Jimbo.

Especially now, when it seems unlikely to have Angus around to remind Marigold that she can do better.
All I can think is that that would result in Jimbo writing yaoi. And that would be awesomely terrible.
Err anything Jimbo writes is terrible, so what ?
It would be terrible in new and exciting ways.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Sorflakne on 09 Jun 2010, 00:43
Panel 4A: I like big butts and I can not lie!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tomart on 09 Jun 2010, 01:10
with a person who might hit her back, Faye does not punch, and definitely not forcefully enough to bruise. So... she only punches the guys, because they can't hit back? Not cool.
I agree with you 100%, I complained of Faye's one-sided violence a few weeks ago. But I thought of something: Jeph mixes in elements from lots of places, like the cartoons we grew up with, where characters are beaten to pulps and come back next scene good as new.  When I picture Faye's punchings in the real world, I'm offended and angry at the brusings and the double-standards. I've already said someone should punch her back, but look at the shitstorm that might cause.

As Jeph said one time, WRITING IS HARDS.

And what if Marigold lost it and snapped at Faye?  It'd be consistent with Faye's character to go postal "in self-defense" and do major injuries to mild Mari.  I imagine the tough-guy apologists who call us wimps and pussies would be fine with that.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 09 Jun 2010, 01:44
OK, now we know where Pintsize is.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 09 Jun 2010, 01:54
Marigold seems to be taking it well and it looks like Dora wasn't lying when she said she could handle it.  Considering how maternal Dora is (both here and when Hanners was ill), I think she would make a good mother (as much as she likes to deny that she wants one).

However, I'm not sure leaving Pintsize in the bedroom was that good an idea.  Who knows what he'll do to it whilst they're not there?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 09 Jun 2010, 02:24
However, I'm not sure leaving Pintsize in the bedroom was that good an idea.  Who knows what he'll do to it whilst they're not there?
Well ... if it where my droid, I would just have removed the batteries.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Binary on 09 Jun 2010, 02:27
Previous Pintsize incidents suggest that the massive application of duct tape is an effective solution.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Akima on 09 Jun 2010, 03:44
It's a comedy and drama, populated with characters who have clear and realistic personalities, which is represented as a cartoon. Discussion of the behavior of fictional characters is something you can get a degree in: dismissing doing so because "it's just a cartoon" is a prejudiced refusal to acknowledge that a comic strip is a valid storytelling medium.

Realistic? The people and events in your world must be a lot more interesting than the ones I know. Part of the reason I read QC is the way Jeph combines fantasy and reality, with each heightening the other. A world filled with flying vacuum-cleaners, sentient robots, samurai squirrel-duels, roaming kung-fu monks, James Bond-style supervillains, pocket-sized laser cannnon, private space-stations, and mysterious scarred Russian vamps is not realistic. As for the characters, does anyone honestly imagine that Hanners is a realistic depiction of an OCD sufferer? Or that Faye's violent, drunken tsundere is a realistic depiction of, well, anyone? Faye's consequence-free violence is as much cartoon fantasy as her ability to catapult a grown man out of the CoD and into the street by the power of her scorn. It's a standard part of the QC schtick. Faye does something rude, violent, or abusive and hilarity ensues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HilarityEnsues).

I absolutely reject the idea that cartoons cannot be taken seriously as a story-telling medium. Maus: A Survivor's Tale in comics (and it's a furry comic, no less!), and Grave Of The Fireflies in animated films are evidence enough for me. But, especially in the case of the latter, I probably wouldn't want a dose every day. For that, QC's fantasy-realism suits me very nicely.

Having said all that, I thought today's strip was very nicely drawn and written, but maybe a little lacking in the punch-line department. Actually, I'm not sure if it needed a punch-line, but... *shrug*
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 09 Jun 2010, 03:45
However, I'm not sure leaving Pintsize in the bedroom was that good an idea.  Who knows what he'll do to it whilst they're not there?
Well ... if it where my droid, I would just have removed the batteries.

I'm not sure if that's even possible but I think pintsize does have an off switch.

{edit} Found the strip (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=598).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 09 Jun 2010, 04:33
And as previously mentioned - duct tape is not his friend, and is the handyman's secret weapon.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Jun 2010, 05:59
Either I'm too old or not well versed in things, but what's with the "Call Faye A Nazi" reference in the title?

Only thing I can think of is "Godwin'ed", but that's gotta be the most oblique reference ever.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 09 Jun 2010, 06:15
Either I'm too old or not well versed in things, but what's with the "Call Faye A Nazi" reference in the title?

Only thing I can think of is "Godwin'ed", but that's gotta be the most oblique reference ever.



I'm pretty sure it is relating to Godwinning in reference to internet drama at the end.  As in, if this was the internet, this would turn into a flame war.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 09 Jun 2010, 06:18
Marigold defines the word 'pitiful'.  See also 'pathetic'.  

Not to be completely mean, but she's sitting there at the front of the apartment complex having her own personal pity party.  Almost makes me want to slap her.  
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: kent_eh on 09 Jun 2010, 06:34
I think his first response was appropriate, until he freaked out about it when questioned on it. 
.....
 Sadly, instead of being quick on his feet to say something like that, he started sputtering. 
.....
  I still don't think Marten deserved Dora criticizing him like that, both when calling him an idiot and telling him not to say anything else stupid for the rest of the night.

To quote almost every news story about stupid shit happening

"Alcohol may have been a factor"
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Thorbard on 09 Jun 2010, 06:57
Marigold defines the word 'pitiful'.  See also 'pathetic'.  

Not to be completely mean, but she's sitting there at the front of the apartment complex having her own personal pity party.  Almost makes me want to slap her.  

No she doesn't. She's just having a rough time and it probably all came as a shock.

If she's still moping in a day or two, then she's being pathetic.

If you want to slap someone, slap one of the people that tried to hide this from her.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 09 Jun 2010, 07:38
Marigold defines the word 'pitiful'.  See also 'pathetic'.  

Not to be completely mean, but she's sitting there at the front of the apartment complex having her own personal pity party.  Almost makes me want to slap her.  

No she doesn't. She's just having a rough time and it probably all came as a shock.

If she's still moping in a day or two, then she's being pathetic.

If you want to slap someone, slap one of the people that tried to hide this from her.

Nope. Marigold is pretty much this comic's embodiment of pathetic.

Running away instead of being up front about how she felt about it and having an actual discussion with the people she's offended by is what makes her pathetic.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 09 Jun 2010, 08:18
Frantically busy, but just had to say, who's my best not-real girl? Dora, that's who!

Carry on.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jun 2010, 10:01
Quote from: sunbnose
Well ... if it where my droid, I would just have removed the batteries.
It is possible to turn Pintsize off, but although Marten has threatened it he never actually does it. Maybe it's unpleasant to AnthroPCs to be turned off (hey, look how we react to the prospect!) and Marten is too softhearted.

Quote from: Akima
A world filled with flying vacuum-cleaners, sentient robots, samurai squirrel-duels, roaming kung-fu monks, James Bond-style supervillains, pocket-sized laser cannnon, private space-stations, and mysterious scarred Russian vamps is not realistic.
I said realistic personalities, not realistic in general. Faye, for example, reminds me of a girlfriend I had when I was 16.

Quote from: Tuitsiro
Not to be completely mean, but she's sitting there at the front of the apartment complex having her own personal pity party.  Almost makes me want to slap her.  
Like Faye outside the coffee shop (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=340).

---

Was it really anybody's obligation to tell Marigold that Angus was interested in Faye? She had every right to know that Angus wasn't into her That Way, but that should have been sufficient.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 09 Jun 2010, 10:58
Was it really anybody's obligation to tell Marigold that Angus was interested in Faye? She had every right to know that Angus wasn't into her That Way, but that should have been sufficient.

Yeah, I get that Marigold would have liked to have known that Angus liked Faye and was pursuing her, BUT Angus had already told Marigold he wasn't into a relationship with her and quite frankly, that should have been enough. The fact that she wondered if she could guilt him into liking her showed (to me at least), that Marigold hadn't particularly listened to him. At least finding out this way ensures that she can't ignore it, and has to accept it.

Sure it sucks, but I dunno how convinced I am that she really Liked him versus she liked him solely because he was nice to her.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: disaacs on 09 Jun 2010, 11:01
Marigold seems to be taking it well and it looks like Dora wasn't lying when she said she could handle it.  Considering how maternal Dora is (both here and when Hanners was ill), I think she would make a good mother (as much as she likes to deny that she wants one).

Dora has never said she thinks she would be a bad mother. She has just said that she doesn't want to be a mother. Just because you might be good at something does not automatically mean you want to do it.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 09 Jun 2010, 11:02
Either I'm too old or not well versed in things, but what's with the "Call Faye A Nazi" reference in the title?

Only thing I can think of is "Godwin'ed", but that's gotta be the most oblique reference ever.

I'm pretty sure it is relating to Godwinning in reference to internet drama at the end.  As in, if this was the internet, this would turn into a flame war.

I agree with this interpretation.

And the only thing potentially more crippling/immobilizing to Pintsize than duct tape might be getting trapped in a room with Mieville.  We haven't seen the kitty, right?  Mieville could be reinacting a Saw movie on Pintsize right now for all we know . . .

Yeah, Marigold is moping, but it'd be unrealistic to expect her to deal with the news any better than she is at this point.  Dora's actually being understanding without being condescending, so that's cool.  I wonder how well she'll stick to the "I promise I'll be up-front with you from now on" thing -- depending on how much she's told her, it could get intersting if Marigold encounters Sven again (and no, I'm not shipping them).

Now, back to the party, where Winslow accidentally rickrolls everyone!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Thorbard on 09 Jun 2010, 11:39
Was it really anybody's obligation to tell Marigold that Angus was interested in Faye? She had every right to know that Angus wasn't into her That Way, but that should have been sufficient.

No, but he's not gone the best way about it. He's been trying to avoid the issue entirely while still practically leading her on, particularly with the compliments he was giving during the walk over to the party. The problem wasn't that he complimented her, but the specific compliments could all be easliy interpreted differently to that. Then to find out that the main reason for him not being interested in her (given that she admitted she didn't want a boyfriend, just someone to be nice to her "and stuff") is because he's into some other girl that he hasn't told her about.

If Angus expects her to trust him, he should've been up front about it. Like she said, it wouldn't be any worse than this all was and maybe she wouldn't have embarrassed herself by continuing to flirt with him.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 09 Jun 2010, 12:04
How has he been avoiding the issue? Angus is the one who brought it up - Marigold wanted to avoid it. Angus also apologized for his unknowingly leading her on. Then we also found out that the reason Marigold started liking him was because he was nice to her. Angus has tried to be nice, tried to spare her feelings, and his compliments to me sounded like the standard "pick-you-up" sort of compliments typically heard - "You're so awesome, you need a person to match that awesomeness!" Maybe it wasn't the right way to deal with Marigold, but often there isn't a "right" way anyway, everyone reacts differently. Angus had already told Marigold he wasn't into her that way, so as long as she chose to interpret his niceness as him actually liking her, she chose to remain in denial and, short of Angus ignoring her completely, there probably wasn't anything else he could do.

As far as her embarrassment for continuing to flirt with him - again, she brought that upon herself because she chose not to listen to what Angus was telling her, and instead chose to listen to what she really hoped would happen. Whether or not he told her he was interested in another girl might have made a difference (and maybe even more if he'd told her it was Faye), or it might not have.

Her hurt now also doesn't seem to be so much at Angus not liking her, but at her being out of the loop. Quite frankly, she witnesses many signs of, at least Angus' attraction to Faye, and whether she missed them because she's socially inept or because she didn't want to see them are both good reasons. Also, she's complaining about drama, but she did bring some of it upon herself by choosing to not listen to Angus.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Somebody on 09 Jun 2010, 12:17
On Faye hitting girls, does a sister count: http://questionablecontent.net/comics/617.png
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 09 Jun 2010, 13:12
On Faye hitting girls, does a sister count: http://questionablecontent.net/comics/617.png
Yep this was brought up a couple of times.  She also did not do anything violent to Sven after he ceased being monogomous, both counter the "Faye is a violent person" thing (although people are dismissing the sister for some reason).



Regarding today's strip, I don't know how people are blaming Angus at all.  He shot down Marigold before he was even "sorta-maybe potentially together in the future" status with Faye.  What, did you want him to go up to Marigold, who he just shot down, and be like "Oh btw I made great progress in my obvious persuing of Faye today, but we agreed to take it slow to not rub salt in your wounds! ^^b"?

Angus turned her down unequivocally.  His love life is his own.  Marigold just didn't face that fully and now she is.  She's actually handling it a lot better than I thought she would, but she has no reasonable claim to blame Angus or really anyone else.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nightson on 09 Jun 2010, 13:20
Well, I won't say Angus deserves blame here, Angus has been a great guy all around handling Marigold.  But if all  of them are going to be hanging out, then Marigold is going to find out about their flirting.  It might have been better if Angus had told her earlier because she could have dealt with it in a private setting.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jun 2010, 13:56
"Pity party"...

Would Marigold's mopiness be considered contemptible if she were fifteen years old?

Because that's about where she is in terms of life experience.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 09 Jun 2010, 14:04
I'm writing this from my mobile so I don't have the ability to quote posts.

disaacs:

You're right - ability is not the same as desire.

However, she did hint, in comic 1317, that she doesn't think she'd make a good mother. As it was a joke, we can't read too much into it but it may be more than a joke.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 09 Jun 2010, 14:24
Because that's about where she is in terms of life experience.

You mean social experience?  Because I don't think she's even out of her single-digit years in that respect.  Still, just because she's emotionally and socially stunted doesn't mean we should simply treat her as a child.  She is an adult, and the other characters need to start treating her like one instead of playing to this facade she keeps putting up. 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 09 Jun 2010, 14:31
Will you stop contradicting yourself, please, Tuitsuro? It makes it difficult to debate rationally.
Still, just because she's emotionally and socially stunted doesn't mean we should simply treat her as a child.  She is an adult, and the other characters need to start treating her like one instead of playing to this facade she keeps putting up.
You're first admitting she may indeed be stunted, then you assume it's a facade. WTF?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 09 Jun 2010, 16:11
Will you stop contradicting yourself, please, Tuitsuro? It makes it difficult to debate rationally.

Stop rationing the debate, there's plenty enough for everyone.  

You're first admitting she may indeed be stunted, then you assume it's a facade. WTF?

I'm not saying the emotional stunting is the facade, the facade is that she's so damn fragile that she can't handle life.  That when she's confronted with a dilemma, she just runs off instead of dealing with it because it's too hard to face it.  That she can just sit and mope for days, agonizing over the whole thing, meanwhile doing nothing about it.  About the fact that she uses the excuse of being bullied in school to sit in front of her computer all day, live off her father's money, living in squalor and filth locked up in her own section of the apartment up until she happened upon Hannelore and the QC gang.  I mean why is any of that crap acceptable to anyone?  It certainly wasn't to Hannelore.  She took the initiative and gave her a metaphorical slap in the face over it (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1418), and hell, now they're the best of friends. 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Sorflakne on 09 Jun 2010, 17:24
Goatse...goddammit I thought I'd finally purged that image from my mind.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 09 Jun 2010, 21:23
Well, looks like Dora cheered her up in the best way Dora knows how  :lol:
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: zagraf on 09 Jun 2010, 21:29
Oh, wow... The expressions on Marigold in the third-last and penultimate panels are wonderful. Seriously Jeph (if you're reading this), some of your best artwork ever.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Tuitsuro on 09 Jun 2010, 21:32
Honestly, that look kills me.  She's gloriously happy.  Admittedly, a better result than my 'slap in the face' suggestion would have obtained. 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: lunakitten on 09 Jun 2010, 21:32
Hee. :-D
Oh my.
The next comment that usually comes after that is "can I touch them?" (yes, I know this from experience- even straight women/gay men go there  :oops:) which would be what someone should walk out on...

Oh great- I've become one of them now. I swear I don't ship anyone!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: quats on 09 Jun 2010, 21:43
Marigold defines the word 'pitiful'.  See also 'pathetic'.  

Not to be completely mean, but she's sitting there at the front of the apartment complex having her own personal pity party.  Almost makes me want to slap her.  

No she doesn't. She's just having a rough time and it probably all came as a shock.

If she's still moping in a day or two, then she's being pathetic.

If you want to slap someone, slap one of the people that tried to hide this from her.
I strongly suspect that only very little of her mood is due to being the last to know and blaming the rest. A big chunk of it is likely having viewed Faye as a friend to some degree -- one of the few times she's let someone in, emotionally, and only very recently, to boot -- and now feels betrayed, whether or not it is warranted. She confessed her interest in Angus to The Girl Who Was Already Chasing Him! Not to mention, The Girl Who Already Pretty Much Got Him! (She doesn't know much of their history, after all, so this is likely her perception.) So likely a heaping helping of embarassment in there, to boot, especially if she's been thinking about her recent attempts to convince Angus to reconsider.

An immediate reaction like this is very normal. That she didn't completely run off, or start screaming or hunting down Angus or Faye is a good sign, really. She withdrew a short distance to cope. I agree, if she sulks/cuts herself off  a good long time then that's the point to get irritated with her. In the short term, her behavior is very normal.

People who shrug off a deep hurt and keep partying like nothing happened are the ones to watch very, very carefully.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Steve the Pocket on 09 Jun 2010, 21:53
I don't know if Jeph reads this at all, but Marigold's lip in panel three and maybe also four is a deep maroon for some reason.

(Actually I know the reason but if you haven't been watching the Ustreams it won't make sense.)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 09 Jun 2010, 22:07
Awww, today's comic is cute. Dora is surprisingly good at this!

Running away instead of being up front about how she felt about it and having an actual discussion with the people she's offended by is what makes her pathetic.

I'm confused by your interpretation of events.

1. I don't see why "running away" is bad here: it's allowable to take some time out to process new information before acting, and in fact smart, and that's what I see Marigold doing. She got some new information that threw her for a loop, it hurt her and sent her emotions reeling, so she went outside to sit down where she wasn't under the eyes of everybody and let herself deal with the pain and think a little and sort herself out.  I didn't realize that "maturity" required one to process all one's emotions in public all the time.

2. Why would she need to be upfront about how she feels with anyone? If anything, that seems to be a bad idea. She feels hurt and betrayed. She also recognizes that nobody meant to either hurt or betray her. Her feelings are not invalid, but they are also not anyone's business--if anything, telling Faye or Angus how she feels would be inflicting unnecessary discomfort on them.  This is the kind of situation where you take stock of your emotions and sort them out on your own, or with a friend.  Some things are just your own problem, and so long as you realize that, it's best to keep it to yourself while you work it out.  Example: a mother finds out that her son is gay. She thinks she's ok with it until he brings his boyfriend home, and she feels disgusted when she sees them kissing goodbye outside. This is not a case for her to tell either her son or his boyfriend about her feelings--this is precisely a case where she needs to take a personal breather, or call a friend, and try to figure out how she can be supportive of her son while acknowledging (to herself, not to him) her discomfort. I see Marigold's discomfort with the Faye/Angus situation as similar in terms of how much of Marigold's feelings need to be shared.

3. I don't think she's offended by anyone, just hurt.  And no one really did anything offensive, except for Faye thinking this party was a good idea, and that's more "stupid" than "intentionally hurtful" anyway. And since no one wanted to hurt her or did anything offensive, I don't see why she's supposed to offer her emotions up on a platter rather than be allowed her privacy.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 09 Jun 2010, 22:14
Okay, really, what is it people see in jiggly/squished boobs?  Really?  They just look like globs of fat in those cases.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 09 Jun 2010, 22:52
But that's... what boobs are? Globs of glands surrounded by fat?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: weirdbeard on 09 Jun 2010, 23:14
Marigold's outstanding rack notwithstanding, what's up with the Dora art tonight?
I'm usually a 'jeph can do no wrong' kind of guy, but she's lookin' a little bit rondo today...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 09 Jun 2010, 23:38
Well, Jeph's said he finds drawing Dora difficult. I would say that he's drawing her eyes too small, and her jaw/cheeks too round. A rounder face looks good on Faye and Marigold, who have different proportions and longer hair to frame their faces, but on Dora it just looks out of balance and like her lower face is swollen. And a round jaw in combination with the small eyes and short hair makes her look unnecessarily butch.

See?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/Katranna/Drawings/DoraBora.jpg)

Although also, man, that haircut is just not the most flattering.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 09 Jun 2010, 23:39
Okay, really, what is it people see in jiggly/squished boobs?  Really?  They just look like globs of fat in those cases.
Err ... Boobs ARE globs of fat. Mostly, anyway.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Kugai on 09 Jun 2010, 23:53
Well, Dora was the right person in the right place at the right time.

(No, I am not a Vorlon Inquisitor)

I like the fact that Dora turned out to be the person to cheer her up, now all we need is Tai to make the obligatory drunken pass at Marigold to round out the week.    :-D
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Sorflakne on 09 Jun 2010, 23:53
Quote
Err ... Boobs ARE globs of fat. Mostly, anyway.
Pretty much.  But for some women, they're mostly silicone.

Also, most random QC comic I've seen in awhile IMO.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 09 Jun 2010, 23:54
Although also, man, that haircut is just not the most flattering.
As I said a week or so ago.

Re: Marigold—if she can laugh at that, I think she's going to be okay.

And Dora's great.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 10 Jun 2010, 00:01
Seriously. How do you not KNOW you have a nice rack? She's pretty much an invalid, spending all her time on the 'net, even if she's not outright pornsurfing, she has to run into some pictures of what people consider "attractive" women, you're telling me Mari never got a look at one of these women, felt kinda inadequate at first, then caught her silouette on the wall, or a side glance of herself in the mirror, and said "Hey..........fuck, I'm HUGE. Where'd those come from?"

Two ways Friday can go:

1) Mari comes back to the party, everyone's all "sorry we kept it from you", she's all "eh, I'm OK", and the party continues.

2) Mari says,"I'll be up in a minute", she takes off her bra, then goes back to the party, everyone's distracted by MariBoobs, and she's all evil-supervillian-with-a-new-doomsday-device happy.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 00:12
Seriously. How do you not KNOW you have a nice rack? She's pretty much an invalid, spending all her time on the 'net, even if she's not outright pornsurfing, she has to run into some pictures of what people consider "attractive" women, you're telling me Mari never got a look at one of these women, felt kinda inadequate at first, then caught her silouette on the wall, or a side glance of herself in the mirror, and said "Hey..........fuck, I'm HUGE. Where'd those come from?"

Lol. You're a guy, right? That's REALLY not how women with insecurity issues see themselves.

1st: "Hot women" online look nothing like Marigold, and she would not be easily able to separate out the individual bodyparts from the whole.
2nd: internet/pornstar big boobs look nothing like real big boobs. When Marigold looks at her boobs, she's probably very aware that they aren't preternaturally perky, that they're not symmetrical, that they have stretchmarks, etc etc etc.
3rd: Looking at herself in the mirror, Marigold does think "fuck, I'm HUGE" but not in the way you meant it. She possibly sees her breasts as just part of her overall fatness.  (Mari's not actually fat, but we've been told she thinks of herself that way.)
and that's just some of it.
  
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Moxie on 10 Jun 2010, 00:29
Well, Jeph's said he finds drawing Dora difficult. I would say that he's drawing her eyes too small, and her jaw/cheeks too round. A rounder face looks good on Faye and Marigold, who have different proportions and longer hair to frame their faces, but on Dora it just looks out of balance and like her lower face is swollen. And a round jaw in combination with the small eyes and short hair makes her look unnecessarily butch.

See?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/Katranna/Drawings/DoraBora.jpg)

Although also, man, that haircut is just not the most flattering.



Dang, wow, you are right about the jaw/cheek area being too round. Slimming it down fits her face, and matches her body much, much more. World of difference, and now that I know what it is about her face that bothers me, I'll see it all the time. Woo...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Akima on 10 Jun 2010, 00:30
Kudos to Jeph for making a big-boob joke that's actually rather touching, and working in Dora's "up front" pun too. As someone said above, the Marigold-drawing is excellent.

Lol. You're a guy, right? That's REALLY not how women with insecurity issues see themselves.
I'm astounded to find myself agreeing with Jack  :laugh:, but yeah. And actually we all have insecurity issues.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Neskah on 10 Jun 2010, 00:37
Yeah, About the boobs, I'm well endowed... and I don't see it as an asset, when you get that big i tend to think of it as cartoonishly disproportionate. I mean yeah, Boobs are sexy... when they're plump and pert. But, there's a thing as too much cleavage and skin, even when you're not trying. It's a drawback. I can see how Marmar would just write it into her general sense of Fatness. Thankfully there are ppl like Dora and Tai around, who can see that in the right clothes mutton can outshine lamb and applaud it. BTW I love Mar.... the nerdy social ineptness and obsession for games, the frumpy curves, even the pigtails, she reminds me of someone =D
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 01:47
Ok, so, maybe its just me, and if that's the case, I'll shut up, but:

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, JEPH STOP OBSESSING ABOUT BREASTS.

I'm not a prude or a puritan, but I think the strip has crossed the line from depicting liberated people who are (more or less) comfortable talking about their bodies into the territory of objectifying women.

Occasional snarky exchanges between faye and dora is one thing, but look at this:
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1672
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1675
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1678
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1684

It's like 80% of the time marigold is in the comic, someone (jeph) is making sure we all know that part of her value as a person is based on her breasts.

Here's an idea, Jeph: rent some porn, get the breast-obsession out of your system, and go back to telling an actual story, instead of reinforcing the misogynistic values of the patriarchy (also, ditch the heteronormativity a smidge. and nobody bring up Tai, because that's pure tokenism).

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Dliessmgg on 10 Jun 2010, 01:54
Saying that big boobs are big is misogynistic?  :laugh:

Also, do you remember the strip where Faye stared at Sven's ass? That's obviously misandry!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jun 2010, 01:59
"Hey Jeph, angle the strip more towards my prejudices rather than your own!"

the territory of objectifying women.

Maybe it objectifies men, too (those photos of Steve, for instance).

Quote
also, ditch the heteronormativity a smidge. and nobody bring up Tai, because that's pure tokenism.

Tokenism?  How?  Also, consider Marten's dad, Faye's sister, and Dora, for that matter.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 10 Jun 2010, 01:59
OMG QC characters fantasize about breasts ?

That never ever happends in reallife !!!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 02:13
Saying it over and over and over again, to a point that drowns out the character's other features, and actual, you know, personality, is a way of reinforcing the way in which women are judged to an absurd degree on their looks.

As for Faye staring at Sven's ass, 1) no I don't remember that strip (maybe because it wasn't 5 of the last 10 strips where it happened), and 2) which actions count as sexist/inappropriate depend on the power structures in place.  Women ogling men is not at all like men ogling women, because, in general, men do not inhabit a world in which they are viewed as objects rather than persons, and are rarely told that their worth is based directly on their appearance.  And I don't mean "told" in the sense that people sit women down and say "now, listen, you are only as valuable as you are pretty". I mean the subtle ways in which society and culture and media (including, yes, allegedly "indie" comics that don't _try_ to be part of that system) present a particular picture of what the appropriate gender roles are.

Let me put it this way: women are expected to wear makeup, men are not.  But it's not like men have magically smoother skin or more blushed cheeks. It's just that society doesn't put pressure on men to prioritize "looking pretty", because, in society, men are not devalued into mere objects of sexual conquest/interest.*

There is something empowering (in terms of challenging patriarchal ideals) about having female characters that speak frankly about sex, and do not consider their own bodies to be off-limits for discussion.  But, in the comic, Marten, Faye, Dora, Tai, tall-dorky-guy and Penelope are all participating in the process of objectifying women through their constant discussion of Marigold's chest, and, as an author, Jeph is not employing this as a means of drawing attention to, or otherwise combatting harmful tendencies in culture (nor even as a way of commenting on them), but is also promoting the harmful social norms.

*I'm definitely not saying that social and gender norms benefit men in all ways.  There are a lot of significant constraints on whether men can be open emotionally, and there is a lot of pressure to consider men more valuable if they are more aggressive and sexually virile/active.  However, a) this also compounds the problems facing women, b) it is pretty clear which gender faces greater disadvantage from current gender norms, and c) the system is enforced and perpetuated, primarily, by men, who hold most or all of the major positions of power in government, industry, and media.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 02:13
Kudos to Jeph for making a big-boob joke that's actually rather touching, and working in Dora's "up front" pun too. As someone said above, the Marigold-drawing is excellent.

Lol. You're a guy, right? That's REALLY not how women with insecurity issues see themselves.
I'm astounded to find myself agreeing with Jack  :laugh:, but yeah. And actually we all have insecurity issues.

Hey, I'm not that evil.  :-P Plus I only remember that one time we've disagreed!  Snubnose is my nemesis on these boards.

As for the poster above--wow.  And I thought I was the angry feminist on these here boards. :-p I gotta say, in comparison to most webcomic cartoonists (male and female)? Jeph's focus on breasts is minimal.

(http://www.gwscomic.com/images/gws/GWS155.jpg)
Girls with Slingshots (c)

(http://wapsisquare.com/comics/2004-07-30.gif)
Wapsi Square (c)

I dunno, I do not really think QC focuses on boobs all that much. It focuses on Dora's love for boobs... but uh... I'm a bi girl and that's pretty much how I feel about boobs too. And the way she interacts with Faye and Marigold is pretty much the way I interact with my well-endowed friends (and in both cases, part of the "omg boobs!" thing is because we're less-pneumatic and have felt insecure about it in the past).  And I am not sure Tai can count as tokenism here considering she's well integrated into the cast and has had several storylines of her own. She's not one of the major characters, but her romantic and sex life has been well explored (and shown!), more than just politely alluded to, as you get in tokenism.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 10 Jun 2010, 02:17
Note the caveat, "in that dress". How often does Marigold get dressed up? Answer: Not too damn often. Note how she's the only one who dressed any differently than they normally do just to go over to a friend's place to eat gross food and watch gross videos off the webitubes. I'd think it highly doubtful she's ever been this dolled up since her graduation perp-walk, and that would have been mostly hidden by the identity-obliterating gown.

As one of the big boobied bunch on here, I can saw with some authority, that it's not remotely beyond the pale that this is the first compliment Mar-Bear's rack has ever received. And yes, as Neskah has already pointed out obliquely, her smile in panel 3B is awesome. Also, it's not only normal for people to be asymmetric, but it's actually abnormal to not be. Everyone has something different about their... faces... left to right. It's the way things work.

In fact, Jeph seems to have a visual meme going with characters in panels 3A and 3B being shown very similarly, but with a slight change in facial expression. Compare today's with http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1643 .

OMG! Love GWS and Wapsi! But you forgot the that buxom madgirl Agatha Heterodyne on GirlGenius. Of course, your point is webcomics that make more of characters' breasts than average, and Agatha's never lost a kitten in hers. Strange, considering a certain previous comics project of the Professors Foglio.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 02:22
Kudos to Jeph for making a big-boob joke that's actually rather touching, and working in Dora's "up front" pun too. As someone said above, the Marigold-drawing is excellent.

Lol. You're a guy, right? That's REALLY not how women with insecurity issues see themselves.
I'm astounded to find myself agreeing with Jack  :laugh:, but yeah. And actually we all have insecurity issues.

Hey, I'm not that evil.  :-P Plus I only remember that one time we've disagreed!  Snubnose is my nemesis on these boards.

As for the poster above--I gotta say, in comparison to most webcomic cartoonists (male and female)? Jeph's focus on breasts is minimal.


I'm not a crusader out patrolling for comics to yell about, so I just comment when I see something worth complaining about.

Also, note that "in comparison to most webcomic cartoonists" doesn't address whether or not Jeph's focus on breasts is harmful perpetuation of patriarchal gender norms, but rather, avoids the issue entirely and points out that there are more heinous offenders.  In one sense, it is better to try and reform the moderate offenders, since they are probably less likely to revel in the misogyny.  In another sense, wrong is wrong, whether or not other people are worse. So, either way, I think my criticism stands.

Lastly, I think that first comic you included is at least plausibly read as commentary on (rather than mere participation in) gender norms and the sexual-objectification of women.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 02:38

Also, note that "in comparison to most webcomic cartoonists" doesn't address whether or not Jeph's focus on breasts is harmful perpetuation of patriarchal gender norms, but rather, avoids the issue entirely and points out that there are more heinous offenders.  In one sense, it is better to try and reform the moderate offenders, since they are probably less likely to revel in the misogyny.  In another sense, wrong is wrong, whether or not other people are worse. So, either way, I think my criticism stands.

I will respectfully disagree. I find QC to be one of the comics that objectifies women the least, AND presents a variety of body types and shapes.  Most women in QC are modestly-to-moderately-sized, chest-wise (which is refreshing all in itself, lemme tell ya). The way it does talk about breasts, when it talks about them, strikes me as realistic and reflecting my own experiences among women. And it's mostly female characters (not always, but mostly) who talk about breasts.


Quote
Lastly, I think that first comic you included is at least plausibly read as commentary on (rather than mere participation in) gender norms and the sexual-objectification of women.

Yeah, but that comic talks a LOT about Jamie's breasts and how great they are, and the art routinely draws the viewer's focus to them.

(http://www.gwscomic.com/images/gws/GWS068.jpg)

(http://www.gwscomic.com/images/gws/GWS443.jpg)

(http://www.gwscomic.com/images/gws/GWS098.jpg)

(http://www.gwscomic.com/images/gws/GWS214.jpg)

(http://www.gwscomic.com/images/gws/GWS219.jpg)

Is it having fun with the subject? Yeah. It's also quite reveling in looking at Jamie's breasts and presenting them to be looked at. But that's not always bad, and I think QC is even less objectionable on this front.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tomart on 10 Jun 2010, 02:45
Hey, Stevelore, as others are (and will continue) pointing out to you, very many of us LIKE boobage in our webcomics.  And I will semi-respectfully suggest that if you don't like what Jeph is writing and drawing, go find something you like better.  But please, PLEASE don't push a prudish, censorship mentality on the Internets. The restrictive Moral Guardians have already sanitized most media and expression, especially in America; they'd like nothing better than to shut down our online freedoms too.

Whether you're one of them, thinly disguising your agenda with obfuscation, I don't know, and really don't care. But if you can't enjoy creative expression without trying to censor it, JUST STOP.  GO AWAY.  

..." harmful perpetuation of patriarchal gender norms "

??????????????   As liberal and open-minded as Jeph has been?  NOT EVEN PLAUSIBLE.

.... it is better to try and reform the moderate offenders, ...

By "reform" do you mean "intimidate"?  And that's assuming there's something OFFENSIVE here, besides your rediculous, inappropriate nonsense.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 02:52
Hey, Stevelore, as others are (and will continue) pointing out to you, very many of us LIKE boobage in our webcomics.

Ugh ugh ugh, this is NOT what I was pointing out. And even if that's true, that's probably a good reason NOT to depict boobs. Ugh. "I like to leer at women, pander some more to my penis!" is not a good argument here, please go away.

Quote
Quote
..." harmful perpetuation of patriarchal gender norms "
??????????????   As liberal and open-minded as Jeph has been?  NOT EVEN PLAUSIBLE.

DUDE. STOP. That is so wrong I don't even. I agree with you that Jeph is NOT necessarily doing that, but just because a person claims to have certain sympathies does NOT mean they are incapable of acting against those sympathies or can be automatically excused.  Even if you claim to the biggest supporter of feminism or anti-racism or whatever, it is still possible for you to act in a way that's sexist or racist.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 02:54

Also, note that "in comparison to most webcomic cartoonists" doesn't address whether or not Jeph's focus on breasts is harmful perpetuation of patriarchal gender norms, but rather, avoids the issue entirely and points out that there are more heinous offenders.  In one sense, it is better to try and reform the moderate offenders, since they are probably less likely to revel in the misogyny.  In another sense, wrong is wrong, whether or not other people are worse. So, either way, I think my criticism stands.

I will respectfully disagree. I find QC to be one of the comics that objectifies women the least, AND presents a variety of body types and shapes.  Most women in QC are modestly-to-moderately-sized, chest-wise (which is refreshing all in itself, lemme tell ya). The way it does talk about breasts, when it talks about them, strikes me as realistic and reflecting my own experiences among women. And it's mostly female characters (not always, but mostly) who talk about breasts.


Quote
Lastly, I think that first comic you included is at least plausibly read as commentary on (rather than mere participation in) gender norms and the sexual-objectification of women.

Yeah, but that comic talks a LOT about Jamie's breasts and how great they are, and the art routinely draws the viewer's focus to them.


Is it having fun with the subject? Yeah. It's also quite reveling in looking at Jamie's breasts and presenting them to be looked at. But that's not always bad, and I think QC is even less objectionable on this front.

Given that context (the string of other comics you linked), you are probably right about that being more breast focused than Jeph.

On your first comment (to the effect that Jeph portrays a wider range of body types than usual), I have to disagree, there are basically two (maybe two and  a half) body-types represented among women, the Dora/Hanners/Raven/Penelope body type, and the Marigold/Faye body type (the "and a half" is that I can see not quite putting penelope with Dora and Hanners).  Anyway, the representation of various body types is a separate issue, and I wasn't meaning to rag on Jeph for the body types he chose to portray, but for the way in which the comic has started focusing on those choices.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 03:05
On your first comment (to the effect that Jeph portrays a wider range of body types than usual), I have to disagree, there are basically two (maybe two and  a half) body-types represented among women, the Dora/Hanners/Raven/Penelope body type, and the Marigold/Faye body type (the "and a half" is that I can see not quite putting penelope with Dora and Hanners).  Anyway, the representation of various body types is a separate issue, and I wasn't meaning to rag on Jeph for the body types he chose to portray, but for the way in which the comic has started focusing on those choices.

Really? Uh. I don't know what body type you are, but I very much disagree on putting several of those women into the same category.

1. Dora/Hanners: skinny straight-up-and-down, leggy, small-perky breasts.

2. Penelope: slender, most "normative-ideal" shape, with average breasts and hip width, very evenly proportioned.

3. Raven: voluptuous, with generous curves and some flesh on her.

4. Faye/Marigold: busty, but pear-shaped, with ample hips and thighs, heavier in weight.

5. Tai: boyish.

Plus the various background ladies, who (happily!) mostly have some kind of variation on a pear-shape, as most women in fact do.  To me, as someone who HAS been insecure about my body, it is very nice to see the range of shapes represented. The only drawback is that we haven't had any fat characters.

To this, if anything, what we have is dearth of representation of men. We have... tall and skinny (Sven, Dale, Marten, Angus) and... tall and slightly-less-skinny (Steve). And maybe short-and-skinny.

And again, despite what some other people have to say, I think the boob talk has been pretty modest. And there has been talk of men's asses and pecs and I'm very very grateful to Jeph for the way he portrayed Sven, and that he did not shy away from sexyfying him on occasion.  (I'd say Sven was far more often objectified in the comic throughout their relationship than Faye was.)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 10 Jun 2010, 03:09
On your first comment (to the effect that Jeph portrays a wider range of body types than usual), I have to disagree, there are basically two (maybe two and  a half) body-types represented among women, the Dora/Hanners/Raven/Penelope body type, and the Marigold/Faye body type (the "and a half" is that I can see not quite putting penelope with Dora and Hanners).  Anyway, the representation of various body types is a separate issue, and I wasn't meaning to rag on Jeph for the body types he chose to portray, but for the way in which the comic has started focusing on those choices.
Err what ?

None of these people have the same kind of body.

Hanners is more slim and has less boobs than even Dora.

Tai is smaller than anybody else, including Hanners, also quite thin, but has average boobage unless she hides them intentionally.

Raven is nowhere near Dora at all. She's really busty.

Faye is chubby and busty.

Marigold is not as chubby as Faye, but apparently has more boobs.

Theres also other people like Cosette who are simply average on all accounts.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 03:14
... prudish, censorship mentality [...] shut down online freedoms too.

[...] But if you can't enjoy creative expression without trying to censor it, JUST STOP.  GO AWAY.  

By "reform" do you mean "intimidate"?  [...]

There are a lot of problems with what you said.  Briefly they are:
1) One is permitted to disagree with and comment on an artist's choices in forums for discussing that art.  It is not necessary for everyone to simply applaud every decision made in its entirety.You are confusing criticism with censorship.
2) I was not motivated by prudery, but by concern over the representation of gender norms.  Support for my not being a crazy prude is that I was also lobbying for _more_ focus on alternative sexuality, which does not often go hand in hand with the sort of prudishness you've accused me of.
3) I was not suggesting that too many characters in the strip had large breasts, and that jeph should extract all breasts from the comic, but that the dialogue and humor in the comic should not focus on women's bodies as sexual objects to the extent that it does.
4) You confuse criticism and complaint with censorship.
5) You confuse voicing an opinion with an attempt at "intimidation".
6) You confusedly think that anything anyone posts on an online forum could have a serious impact on "internet freedoms".

I am not able to censor Jeph's work, nor was I indicating that I should be in a position to censor Jeph's work.  Censorship would involve unilateral control over what Jeph is permitted to post on the internet.  I have no control over what he puts on the internet.  I do have opinions, and I can attempt to influence him by making my case.  This, of course, is how people interact when attempting to change things they dislike about the world through civilized means.  The most sensible place to express my opinions about Jeph's work is on the forums devoted to his work (perhaps in a sub-forum that is titled "Questionable Content Discussion" whose topic is the specific comics I wished to comment on).

Intimidation would require some sort of implicit (or explicit) threat.  But I made no threats (implicit or explicit).  I didn't even suggest that I would badmouth the strip or try and get other people not to read it, let alone levy any threat of any sort.  Consequently, I was not assaulting freedom on the internet, but instead, participating in a free exchange of opinion about some art that has been presented to the public via the internet.  I was taking advantage of the freedom we all have to voice our opinions about this work.  Since the forums are Jeph's, he actually has the authority to restrict what can be said here, so if he were opposed to people criticizing the gender dynamics in his art, he could actually institute a policy to forbid such discussions, but he hasn't.

Ultimately, the saddest part of your post is the degree to which you feel threatened, intimidated, frightened and "censored" by someone pointing out that there might be something wrong with overdoing the focus on women as objects of sexual interest.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 10 Jun 2010, 03:17
steve,

I take it you're a long time reader?  Without spending hours on an archive trawl I can't comment whether, statistically speaking, there has been a rise in the number of mentions.  I wasn't thinking about boob references but, now they've been raised, I can remember phrases such as "these Georgia peaches" and "right in the nipple".  I think it would take a little more time to see if the number of mentions is significant and, if it is above the background level, whether it'll be sustained.

Bear in mind that some references may be made in the forum and that may give a worse impression than is true.  Also bear in mind that, for the moment, Marigold is someone who pins her self-worth on how others perceive her (especially how attractive she is) so it may be a side-effect of that.

Jack,

steve maybe right in there being a trend.  I don't know and, to tell the truth, I think it's too early to say.  However, people change and webcomics change over time so it may be something to watch out for.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 10 Jun 2010, 03:18
Awww, today's comic is cute. Dora is surprisingly good at this!

Running away instead of being up front about how she felt about it and having an actual discussion with the people she's offended by is what makes her pathetic.

I'm confused by your interpretation of events.

1. I don't see why "running away" is bad here: it's allowable to take some time out to process new information before acting, and in fact smart, and that's what I see Marigold doing. She got some new information that threw her for a loop, it hurt her and sent her emotions reeling, so she went outside to sit down where she wasn't under the eyes of everybody and let herself deal with the pain and think a little and sort herself out.  I didn't realize that "maturity" required one to process all one's emotions in public all the time.

The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.

Quote
2. Why would she need to be upfront about how she feels with anyone? If anything, that seems to be a bad idea. She feels hurt and betrayed. She also recognizes that nobody meant to either hurt or betray her. Her feelings are not invalid, but they are also not anyone's business--if anything, telling Faye or Angus how she feels would be inflicting unnecessary discomfort on them.  This is the kind of situation where you take stock of your emotions and sort them out on your own, or with a friend.  Some things are just your own problem, and so long as you realize that, it's best to keep it to yourself while you work it out.  Example: a mother finds out that her son is gay. She thinks she's ok with it until he brings his boyfriend home, and she feels disgusted when she sees them kissing goodbye outside. This is not a case for her to tell either her son or his boyfriend about her feelings--this is precisely a case where she needs to take a personal breather, or call a friend, and try to figure out how she can be supportive of her son while acknowledging (to herself, not to him) her discomfort. I see Marigold's discomfort with the Faye/Angus situation as similar in terms of how much of Marigold's feelings need to be shared.

And yet, given all that you argued there, you still think Marten (or anybody else) should have babied Marigold and told her about Angus going after Faye? Nobody was hiding it from her, Angus even had a conversation with her about it prior to the sub-arc where she had a crush on him (everyone just conveniently forgot this event in the aftermath).

Bitch is crazy.

Quote
3. I don't think she's offended by anyone, just hurt.  And no one really did anything offensive, except for Faye thinking this party was a good idea, and that's more "stupid" than "intentionally hurtful" anyway. And since no one wanted to hurt her or did anything offensive, I don't see why she's supposed to offer her emotions up on a platter rather than be allowed her privacy.

Well, since no one actually did anything offensive, Marigold is just a crazy, hyper-senstive attention-whoring bitch!

She acts the way she does to fish for validation/compliments from people. She doesn't need the regular QC crew for friends, she needs a good CBT (Behavioral Therapy, not ball torture you perverts) program as well as general therapy to sort her shit out.

Quote from: stevelor
I'm a bitch!

You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 03:22
On your first comment (to the effect that Jeph portrays a wider range of body types than usual), I have to disagree, there are basically two (maybe two and  a half) body-types represented among women, the Dora/Hanners/Raven/Penelope body type, and the Marigold/Faye body type (the "and a half" is that I can see not quite putting penelope with Dora and Hanners).  Anyway, the representation of various body types is a separate issue, and I wasn't meaning to rag on Jeph for the body types he chose to portray, but for the way in which the comic has started focusing on those choices.

Really? Uh. I don't know what body type you are, but I very much disagree on putting several of those women into the same category.

1. Dora/Hanners: skinny straight-up-and-down, leggy, small-perky breasts.

2. Penelope: slender, most "normative-ideal" shape, with average breasts and hip width, very evenly proportioned.

3. Raven: voluptuous, with generous curves and some flesh on her.

4. Faye/Marigold: busty, but pear-shaped, with ample hips and thighs, heavier in weight.

5. Tai: boyish.

Plus the various background ladies, who (happily!) mostly have some kind of variation on a pear-shape, as most women in fact do.  To me, as someone who HAS been insecure about my body, it is very nice to see the range of shapes represented. The only drawback is that we haven't had any fat characters.

To this, if anything, what we have is dearth of representation of men. We have... tall and skinny (Sven, Dale, Marten, Angus) and... tall and slightly-less-skinny (Steve). And maybe short-and-skinny.

And again, despite what some other people have to say, I think the boob talk has been pretty modest. And there has been talk of men's asses and pecs and I'm very very grateful to Jeph for the way he portrayed Sven, and that he did not shy away from sexyfying him on occasion.  (I'd say Sven was far more often objectified in the comic throughout their relationship than Faye was.)

Re: Body-types: that's a fair point.  I think I was assuming that Faye and Marigold were supposed to be representing actually-heavy body types, which is why I was lumping the other one's together (and Raven hasn't been around recently, so I sort of forgot her body type).  I certainly wouldn't be upset if there were more of a range of male body-types, but as I noted in a comment above, objectification of men is simply much less of an issue than objectification of women, given the actual state of gender politics (a similar point extends to why I have no strong objection to the sexy-fying of Sven).

Since society devalues and disenfranchises women, various attitudes and activities that might empower women relative to men are less objectionable/problematic than similar activities which further empower men over women (or perpetuate the system of male-empowerment already in place).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 03:39

Quote from: stevelor
I'm a bitch!

You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).

Actually, it's spelled "Stevelore".
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nightson on 10 Jun 2010, 04:19
The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.

Oh please.  She had a crush on him, a fairly strong one by all indications.  And now very recently after being let down, she is faced with "He didn't want me because he wants another girl"  And that stings like fuck all.  Trying to portray seeking a moment of away time to compose herself as some sort of sign of emotional immaturity is ridiculous. 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Jun 2010, 06:26
Well, Jeph's said he finds drawing Dora difficult. I would say that he's drawing her eyes too small, and her jaw/cheeks too round. A rounder face looks good on Faye and Marigold, who have different proportions and longer hair to frame their faces, but on Dora it just looks out of balance and like her lower face is swollen. And a round jaw in combination with the small eyes and short hair makes her look unnecessarily butch.

See?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/Katranna/Drawings/DoraBora.jpg)

Although also, man, that haircut is just not the most flattering.
I know Jeph has a PITA time trying to draw her, but I'm thinking she's closer to the one on the right. Angular, thinner face with a longer nose.

I know other artists do what are called "profile sketches" that show a character in various poses; maybe Jeph needs to do some more of these for Dora, keeping in mind what her features are.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 06:30
Odin:

The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.

Oh please.  She had a crush on him, a fairly strong one by all indications.  And now very recently after being let down, she is faced with "He didn't want me because he wants another girl"  And that stings like fuck all.  Trying to portray seeking a moment of away time to compose herself as some sort of sign of emotional immaturity is ridiculous.  

Agreed. So is saying that she's a "hyper-sensitive attention-whoring bitch" for being offended, when you're the only one who's saying she's offended in the first place. (The comic certainly doesn't.)

But you, uh, seem to have an issue in this particular debate at arguing against points that you're making up yourself--for instance, I never said that anyone was obligated to tell Marigold about Faye and Angus, so I have no idea what you're talking about here:

Quote
you still think Marten (or anybody else) should have babied Marigold and told her about Angus going after Faye?

Another point: when people run out of a party to sit by themselves on the porch, they usually do that because they're trying to escape attention.

Going up to Faye and Angus and yelling at them about it would have been immature.  What she's doing? Totally fine.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 10 Jun 2010, 06:46
Well, Jeph's said he finds drawing Dora difficult. I would say that he's drawing her eyes too small, and her jaw/cheeks too round. A rounder face looks good on Faye and Marigold, who have different proportions and longer hair to frame their faces, but on Dora it just looks out of balance and like her lower face is swollen. And a round jaw in combination with the small eyes and short hair makes her look unnecessarily butch.

See?

*Image Snipped*

Although also, man, that haircut is just not the most flattering.

Ah nice, I thought something looked off with Dora in that panel, but just thought it was the hair.  Nice alteration.

The expression in panel 6 was really well drawn though.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Jun 2010, 06:50
Came across a "Word Of God" quote from 1473, about how self-aware Marigold isn't:

Quote
"...I don't think Marigold is really like that* (and last thing my comic needs is yet another super-detached female character who is constantly self-analyzing and quipping about everything she says)."

(* - being self-aware)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 10 Jun 2010, 06:54

Quote from: stevelor
I'm a bitch!

You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).

Actually, it's spelled "Stevelore".

Care to actually respond to my point, or are you just going to stick with validating it?

The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.

Oh please.  She had a crush on him, a fairly strong one by all indications.  And now very recently after being let down, she is faced with "He didn't want me because he wants another girl"  And that stings like fuck all.  Trying to portray seeking a moment of away time to compose herself as some sort of sign of emotional immaturity is ridiculous.  

Marigold has never sought a "moment" of away time to compose herself in her entire history of the comic. Every time she's fled from something she has absolutely refused to return to it without some form of extreme threat that is even worse than what she's running from going after her (like Momo threatening to tell Angus that she'd masturbated herself into a state of severe dehydration if she didn't stop moping and get out of the house).

And even that aside, no mentally healthy adult mopes the way Marigold does whenever they don't get their way. Period.


Odin:

The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.

Oh please.  She had a crush on him, a fairly strong one by all indications.  And now very recently after being let down, she is faced with "He didn't want me because he wants another girl"  And that stings like fuck all.  Trying to portray seeking a moment of away time to compose herself as some sort of sign of emotional immaturity is ridiculous.  

Agreed. So is saying that she's a "hyper-sensitive attention-whoring bitch" for being offended, when you're the only one who's saying she's offended in the first place. (The comic certainly doesn't.)

Panels 2, 3, & 4 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1683) read more like being offended over not being straight-up told something than actually hurt over the context.

And I'm not saying she's a hyper-sensitive attention whoring bitch because she's offended, but because of how she's consistently reacting to everything even remotely negative the same way (dramatic exit, refusal to return until someone begs or threatens her into doing it).

Quote
But you, uh, seem to have an issue in this particular debate at arguing against points that you're making up yourself--for instance, I never said that anyone was obligated to tell Marigold about Faye and Angus, so I have no idea what you're talking about here:

Quote
you still think Marten (or anybody else) should have babied Marigold and told her about Angus going after Faye?

Maybe that wasn't you arguing that, but one of you people were (using much of the same reasoning you had in your point #2 as the basis for it, which is probably why I thought you said it).

Quote
Another point: when people run out of a party to sit by themselves on the porch, they usually do that because they're trying to escape attention.

Going up to Faye and Angus and yelling at them about it would have been immature.  What she's doing? Totally fine.

Way to completely ignore my previous post saying she should have actually talked to Angus about it, or talked to Marten/Tai/Hannelore rather than running off like an overgrown teenager.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 10 Jun 2010, 07:15
I'm kinda wondering a lot now what Marigold will do now.

I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 10 Jun 2010, 08:14
I'm kinda wondering a lot now what Marigold will do now.

I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.


Not necessarily - having giant boobs does not make you absolutely irresistible. I am sure we all know plenty of large-busted women (who range from thin to fat) that have trouble getting the men (or women) they want. Also there are people who just like smaller boobs.
Personally I like just enough for a handful, even though I have large hands for a girl, that still only makes it about a C-D cup. Otherwise they are just overwhelming!

Oh and just to throw my opinion in there about the "breasts in the comic" debate, I think there is nothing wrong with Jeph's depiction. All the characters are young, still experimenting a bit in their romantic lives, it is only natural to talk quite a bit about physically attractive features. We also know that Dora is very open about her interest in other people both male and female so this is hardly a new character trait. I do not think very many people at that point in their lives really sit around and think about whether what they say is or is not encouraging objectification of any gender.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: nichidani on 10 Jun 2010, 08:45
I'm kinda wondering a lot now what Marigold will do now.

I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.


Not necessarily - having giant boobs does not make you absolutely irresistible. I am sure we all know plenty of large-busted women (who range from thin to fat) that have trouble getting the men (or women) they want. Also there are people who just like smaller boobs.
Personally I like just enough for a handful, even though I have large hands for a girl, that still only makes it about a C-D cup. Otherwise they are just overwhelming!

Oh and just to throw my opinion in there about the "breasts in the comic" debate, I think there is nothing wrong with Jeph's depiction. All the characters are young, still experimenting a bit in their romantic lives, it is only natural to talk quite a bit about physically attractive features. We also know that Dora is very open about her interest in other people both male and female so this is hardly a new character trait. I do not think very many people at that point in their lives really sit around and think about whether what they say is or is not encouraging objectification of any gender.

I agree about pretty much everything in your post.

1.Every girl I know with big boobs hates them. Also big =/= nice. I'm happy with my B/C cup since they are fairly perky and round; I would definitely not trade them for a full C/D, or anything beyond, at the risk of them being saggy or just plain gauche and tacky (which is how I see fake boobs).

2. Dora thinks everyone is cute and she just likes boobs, man. That's Dora.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Cvantez on 10 Jun 2010, 09:01
That is such an incredibly cute face Marigold makes in panel 6. I want to see this face on every QC character. =D
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: kent_eh on 10 Jun 2010, 09:17
Re: Boobs
As a guy, I can't say I've ever seen a pair of boobs that I couldn't find something I like about.

My wife has generous boobage, and she hated them when she was younger.
My sis-in-law has a tiny pair, and hates them. Thinks everyone judges her poorly because of them.

IMHO, most women hate something they see in the mirror. Gok Wan has made a career out of this.

I appreciate that Jeph's characters have a variety of boobies and a variety of attitudes about them.

 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 09:18
I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.



You must not know the men I know.

They range from "only wanting to bed glossy-haired model-thin types and not a pound over" to "only wanting to sleep with someone with whom they are intimately compatible in terms of interests, politics, and personality" to "only attracted to Asian/black/Jewish/Latina girls" to "only attracted to hot, tattooed, super self-confident alt chicks" to "only attracted to sweet, immaculately-dressed country-club girls."  None* of them would ever consider Maribear, no matter if she were wearing the world's best push-up bra. Life's not that simple.

*Er, none of the ones I mentioned above. Some others I know probably would, of course.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 09:48

Quote from: stevelor
I'm a bitch!

You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).

Actually, it's spelled "Stevelore".

Care to actually respond to my point, or are you just going to stick with validating it?

Oh, see, when your point began by calling me a bitch, I sort of figured it wasn't worth reading what you had to say.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 10 Jun 2010, 10:25

Quote from: stevelor
I'm a bitch!

You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).

Actually, it's spelled "Stevelore".

Care to actually respond to my point, or are you just going to stick with validating it?

Oh, see, when your point began by calling me a bitch, I sort of figured it wasn't worth reading what you had to say.

Kind of hard to take that stance if you took the time to post a half-ass response to begin with. You obviously read it.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Arancaytar on 10 Jun 2010, 11:49
I take today's page to be a step toward the fulfillment of Yelling Bird's prophecy.  :lol:
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Analyst on 10 Jun 2010, 12:02
Jeph, For a point of reference, I'm male, age 54.  I like YOUR universe.  Your universe may not have the same rules as my universe, but if all universes were alike, how boring would that be.  Keep up the good work and I'll keep following YOUR universe.

If I want porn, I know where to find that. If I want a good story that has interesting characters, that interact in both human and humerous ways, I know where to find that, too. (c8
Thank you,
Analyst (nee Michael)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: sudamerican on 10 Jun 2010, 12:15
I take today's page to be a step toward the fulfillment of Yelling Bird's prophecy.  :lol:
"AND THEN EVERYONE FUCKED"? that one?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Binary on 10 Jun 2010, 15:25
I'm not sure if this is a statistically valid method of analysing the incidence of punching in QC, but I just hit the RANDOM link and it took me here (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1170).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: quats on 10 Jun 2010, 15:38
I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.

Get, yes, frequently that is true. Keep? Now that's quite another kettle of fish. And the kind of guy who'll follow you home just because of your DD chest generally stinks worse (metaphorically speaking) than that same kettle of fish. I strongly doubt that Marbear would really be happy at all with a string of one-night stands, despite her desperate belief that at least that would be better than nothing.

Though, I am a half-a-Marbear so I may tend to project on her... (bit more socially, er, ept (several romantic relationships including having been married), bit older, bit longer hair and only one ponytail).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: laizeohbeets on 10 Jun 2010, 16:30
I'm kinda wondering a lot now what Marigold will do now.

I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.


*blink*

I hope this was sarcasm. I have a body shape like Raven. This is definitely not true, nor do I want it to.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 10 Jun 2010, 16:53
I take today's page to be a step toward the fulfillment of Yelling Bird's prophecy.  :lol:
"AND THEN EVERYONE FUCKED"? that one?
Thas da one!
Hey, I'm not that evil.  :-P Plus I only remember that one time we've disagreed!  Snubnose is my nemesis on these boards.
Godsdammit. I thought I was your nemesis. Work like a sonavabitch snooze for two weeks, and look what happens.

Stevelore, if you want to bitch and whinge about breast obsession, you should...wait, cancel that. Adam would hex you, then me. The latter worries me.

As for Marigold leaving the party, what the hell else was she supposed to do? She finds out that not only did Angus not want her advances, but both he and Faye knew she was out without a chance from the start. I suppose there are some poeple who could blow it off, sit there, caress their solid brass balls, and have a good time even while finally understanding the full magnitude of their foolishness, but Marigold's not one of them. No shame in that—I ain't, either.

On the other hoof, if I were Angus, I'd have a terrible time telling her about it. I think we'd imagine things would go something like this: "Hey, kid, you know how you already don't have much self esteem and want to sit in your room all day and have, my god, just now started to emerge? Well, guess what? I was hot for another girl all the time! Oh, yeah, babe, she had just skedaddled out of embarrassment when you made your big, drunken, hand-on-the-titty move! Ain't that a helleva chuckle? Whatcha gonna do now? What? Never ever come out again? Sounds good! Hey, Momo, work out how we can slide the pocky under the door!"

But that, too, is just me. And maybe him.

I get the idea, scanning over the forums these last couple of weeks, that some of us in these here forums ain't much for vulnerable people. But, like 'em or not, they exist. Worse, some of them don't act appropriately, make good decisions, have any idea how to get along with others, or even how to interact at all. (Pains in the ass they are, selfish bitches, for self-assured, take-no-prisoners, reeking with confidence, hard-boiled, highly social types.) Anyway, for better or worse, Marigold seems to be one of those insufferable vulnerable people. But she laughed at being told she has nice tits (Stevelore, you have so liberated me today!  :-D), and that tells me she's going to grow, including some hide, and someday be able to play just like everyone else.

But that's just, well, you know.

mams busoms dirtypillows cans tatas puppies boobs hoochemamas pair bazooms milkers bits titties busoms dependants funbags bazongas breasts melons jugs hooters tits balcony tracts-of-land tetons
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 10 Jun 2010, 17:53
I'm kinda wondering a lot now what Marigold will do now.

I mean, even she should know that a woman with such an "equipment" can basically get any man she wants.


Ummm... actually, the "man she wants" is Angus, and he turned her down.  With his hand on said boobage

What comic have you been reading, anyway?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 10 Jun 2010, 18:16
Queue next scene of Marigold re-entering party and both Dora and Tai glomming onto her boobage -- pillow time.

I'm still hoping for YouTube payoff of embarrassment for one of the characters in attendence.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 10 Jun 2010, 18:28
1.Every girl I know with big boobs hates them. Also big =/= nice. I'm happy with my B/C cup since they are fairly perky and round; I would definitely not trade them for a full C/D, or anything beyond, at the risk of them being saggy or just plain gauche and tacky (which is how I see fake boobs).

They can also be very painful on your back as well. I know a couple of girls who are going to get them reduced purely because they cannot take the pain any more. As for sizing, it can vary from country to country. In Australia, I am fitted anywhere from a B-cup to a DD but they do not look huge, and I try to hide them as much as I can anyway. Smaller ones than mine are better, I just wish I could purposely lose weight in my boobs without surgery or making them saggy.
Oh and fake boobs are terrible. THOSE AREN'T BOOBS! THEY'RE LIES!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TAG on 10 Jun 2010, 19:27
THOSE AREN'T BOOBS! THEY'RE LIES!

What about make-up?  Or shaping bras or stylized outfits?  As someone who benefited greatly from reconstructive plastic surgery after a bad accident, you start to look at "natural" in a cynical light ;P



Not that I'm a fan of huge boobs, fake or otherwise.  Pertness >>> size and smaller boobs are (generally) more pertly, longer.  So I disagree with Snubnose on "any man she wants" although she could easily use them to get some man.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 20:26
although she could easily use them to get some man.

Thing is, all a girl needs to get SOME man is to be willing, and undiscriminating. It matters very little what you look like: if you put it out there, and you're willing to go with any potential taker, you'll get a guy.

The trouble comes when you don't want ANY man, but a PARTICULAR man. Then, even if you're a Maxim cover model, your chances are still up in the air. Particular men have particular quirks and considerations, and no matter how hot you are, you do not get a guarantee that you can get any one specific man.

Now then, if you're hot and willing, and rather than wanting any specific guy, you just want anyone who fits a certain criteria of looks or whatever... sure. If you're willing to make the first move, and put it out there, you will get a good percentage of the guys you're interested in.  You'll get them, all right, but... still no probability that you'll keep them.  If all you want is casual sex, you're set, but if you want a relationship--no one, no matter how good looking or willing or sociable they are, has the guarantee on that.



Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Doc on 10 Jun 2010, 21:39
Boobfight!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 10 Jun 2010, 21:55
Ummm... actually, the "man she wants" is Angus, and he turned her down.  With his hand on said boobage

What comic have you been reading, anyway?
But Caaarrllll! Faye has large, American breasts*, too! That's obviously it. Can't be that he likes, I don't know, talking to Faye, or something. Because Angus has never carried on about enjoying witty banter, comebacks, and general sass, has he? That must be some other comic.

Okay, back to the sweatshop with me.

*Anyone else remember the TW&CGs (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77afestrunks.phtml)?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: TheHappyBerry on 10 Jun 2010, 23:28
The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.

Oh please.  She had a crush on him, a fairly strong one by all indications.  And now very recently after being let down, she is faced with "He didn't want me because he wants another girl"  And that stings like fuck all.  Trying to portray seeking a moment of away time to compose herself as some sort of sign of emotional immaturity is ridiculous. 

I definitely agree.  I think it is much more mature to go somewhere and try to process briefly instead of hysterically running after Faye and Angus and doing something hysterical and embarrassing, or starting to throw back the shots.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 10 Jun 2010, 23:29
Ummm... actually, the "man she wants" is Angus, and he turned her down.  With his hand on said boobage

What comic have you been reading, anyway?
But Caaarrllll! Faye has large, American breasts*, too! That's obviously it. Can't be that he likes, I don't know, talking to Faye, or something. Because Angus has never carried on about enjoying witty banter, comebacks, and general sass, has he? That must be some other comic.

Okay, back to the sweatshop with me.

*Anyone else remember the TW&CGs (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77afestrunks.phtml)?

I remember the Two Wild and Crazy Guys, ayup.   8-)  I like how you also referenced the following in your above response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kBoXwGDL4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kBoXwGDL4Q)  Impelling me to go watch it again.  At least it wasn't the kittycat dance . . .
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 11 Jun 2010, 02:02
You must not know the men I know.
Uh, I probably do, but I never actually spent much thought on what other men look for in a women.

Personally I dont care for boob size that much either. After all, I joined the Hanners fanclub just as willingly as the Faye fanclub before. But I thought I was kind of an exception.

I couldnt say what I'm looking for in a woman. I just check how much I feel for a woman (which is not really that easy to find out, surprisingly). I dont have any other criterion.


I hope this was sarcasm. I have a body shape like Raven. This is definitely not true, nor do I want it to.
Hmm, you dont want to be able to freely choose whatever spouse you would like to have ?


Hey, I'm not that evil.  :-P Plus I only remember that one time we've disagreed!  Snubnose is my nemesis on these boards.
Godsdammit. I thought I was your nemesis.
Uh, I dont think I'm very qualified to be anyones "nemesis", anyway. So if you want that position, go ahead.


Ummm... actually, the "man she wants" is Angus, and he turned her down.  With his hand on said boobage
Didnt he thought something like "whow, boobs" ?

And we already know he's for another girl, dont we ? Who also has enough boobage that he wouldnt need to look anywhere else, anyway.


THOSE AREN'T BOOBS! THEY'RE LIES!
What about make-up? 
Oh. My. God. You didnt. You just didnt !

Doing a "repair" of your body is way different from showering, wearing nice clothes, and makeup.

For once, having artificial boobs means you're having a foreign body in your body, possibly resulting in constant hurt, and very likely resulting in a constant inflammation.

There have been also cases where these artifical boobs where damaged and poisoned women. I once read about a woman to which that happened. She was left by her husband because of it. Now that must have been a deep love for sure, grmpf.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Blackjoker on 11 Jun 2010, 02:23
As the artificial boob argument is going on I figure I should say in fairness that guys aren't above trying for personal enhancement. Otherwise all those commercials with the creepy smile people for pills that promise to increase size wouldn't be on so often.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: snubnose on 11 Jun 2010, 02:43
Yeah. Can we change topic now ? Because, eww.

Also: Yay, comic !
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 11 Jun 2010, 02:56
Having Pintsize be the responsible one in the room?  That really is an insult!  Then again, if it their argument was bad enough to make Marten take charge, they probably deserve it.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Schmorgluck on 11 Jun 2010, 03:00
Sometimes, all it takes is a good laugh.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Odin on 11 Jun 2010, 03:02
As the artificial boob argument is going on I figure I should say in fairness that guys aren't above trying for personal enhancement. Otherwise all those commercials with the creepy smile people for pills that promise to increase size wouldn't be on so often.

What country do you live in? The only commercials about those types of pills we get here are the ones about keeping it up longer (with the fast-talk at the end about how if it stays up for longer than four hours, go to a hospital before things start rupturing).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Switchblade on 11 Jun 2010, 03:16
mams busoms dirtypillows cans tatas puppies boobs hoochemamas pair bazooms milkers bits titties busoms dependants funbags bazongas breasts melons jugs hooters tits balcony tracts-of-land tetons

You forgot "Bristols", "Baps", "Bust", "Bosoms" and "Ta-tas".

Also, average cup size in the USA: B. Average cup size in the UK: D.

and people go on about "beeg amereecan tee-tees."  :roll:
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 11 Jun 2010, 03:25
[...]

Also, average cup size in the USA: B. Average cup size in the UK: D.

and people go on about "beeg amereecan tee-tees."  :roll:

But are the sizing conventions the same in both countries?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Thorbard on 11 Jun 2010, 03:32
mams busoms dirtypillows cans tatas puppies boobs hoochemamas pair bazooms milkers bits titties busoms dependants funbags bazongas breasts melons jugs hooters tits balcony tracts-of-land tetons

You forgot "Bristols", "Baps", "Bust", "Bosoms" and "Ta-tas".

Also, average cup size in the USA: B. Average cup size in the UK: D.

and people go on about "beeg amereecan tee-tees."  :roll:

Don't forget that the average woman wears a bra two sizes to small. That makes the average breasts a D and a F respectively.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: zagraf on 11 Jun 2010, 03:49
"NO TALKING!" *Snerk* Hahahaha...

This reminds me of the comic where Pintsize and Winslow don colonial Puritan hats to punish Hanners for "harlotry."
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Switchblade on 11 Jun 2010, 04:01
But are the sizing conventions the same in both countries?

Yes they are.

Best part of selling balloons in Birmingham city centre for a summer job was the number of girls in low-cut tops who'd try and get their balloons discounted with some décolletage action. I always used to give them the two balloons for Ł5 offer that I was allowed to give anyway if they tried it. They went away thinking that it had worked, I went away with more money and a free show.

Best job I've ever had.  :lol:
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nodaisho on 11 Jun 2010, 04:05
mams busoms dirtypillows cans tatas puppies boobs hoochemamas pair bazooms milkers bits titties busoms dependants funbags bazongas breasts melons jugs hooters tits balcony tracts-of-land tetons

You forgot "Bristols", "Baps", "Bust", "Bosoms" and "Ta-tas".

Also, average cup size in the USA: B. Average cup size in the UK: D.

and people go on about "beeg amereecan tee-tees."  :roll:
The average shoe size is larger in America than the UK. And the fuel economy for a car in the UK is better than the fuel economy for the same car in the US. And don't forget that an ounce of gunpowder weighs more than an ounce of feathers, but a pound of feathers weighs more than a pound of gunpowder. Want to guess the similarities between all of these situations?

edit: Also, bosoms is in there twice, just misspelled.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 11 Jun 2010, 04:28
Having little to contribute to the great boob debate of '10, I've steered clear the last day or so, but hey, I like to look, and have no complaints wrt my wife's.

On the other hand, that looks suspisiously like my boys do whe they get put on time out.  Which is why we try to put them where they can't see each other.

Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 11 Jun 2010, 05:26
I just had a thought:

Even Steve realises how stupid it is to get upset over different tastes in music (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=578).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 11 Jun 2010, 05:51
And don't forget that an ounce of gunpowder weighs more than an ounce of feathers, but a pound of feathers weighs more than a pound of gunpowder.

I do not get it... An ounce or pound of one thing will weigh the same as an ounce or pound of anything else since they are measurements of weight...

As for Marigold needing new bras, I wonder if it is a point that she is wearing the wrong size, or perhaps she just does not go shopping enough and the elastic got so incredibly worn it just gave out.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nodaisho on 11 Jun 2010, 06:04
Yes, but gunpowder (along with gold, silver, and platinum, according to wikipedia) is measured in Troy ounces, while feathers are measured in avoirdupois ounces. 12 Troy ounces to a pound, and each Troy pound (not sure if this is the proper term) is slightly lighter than an avoirdupois pound. They are both called ounces, but they are different measurements as surely as a pound (whichever one) is different from a kilogram. Kind of like UK shoe sizes vs US shoe sizes, imperial gallons vs US gallons, and US bra sizes vs UK bra sizes (although all womens' clothing sizes are hilariously/horribly inaccurate, ridiculous amounts of vanity sizing going on).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 11 Jun 2010, 06:22
Weird, I never knew that. Being a child of the metric system all that seems horrifically archaic :lol:
I do wish that women's sizing was better regulated. It would save a lot of time when trying to buy new clothes.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Jun 2010, 06:40
although she could easily use them to get some man.
Thing is, all a girl needs to get SOME man is to be willing, and undiscriminating. It matters very little what you look like: if you put it out there, and you're willing to go with any potential taker, you'll get a guy.

Quote
"You know how a woman gets a man excited? She shows up. That's it. We're guys, we're easy."

- Harrison Ford, Six Days And Seven Nights
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: quats on 11 Jun 2010, 07:04
As the artificial boob argument is going on I figure I should say in fairness that guys aren't above trying for personal enhancement. Otherwise all those commercials with the creepy smile people for pills that promise to increase size wouldn't be on so often.
The interesting thing about that is that that particular enhancement... ALSO seems to be aimed at men. I'm female, and size (barring freakishly small or large (ow), which both seem quite rare) really isn't important to me. I also have never personally met a woman to whom it mattered (again, outside of the rare extremes; you can always have too much of anything). I'm sure they're out there, but this does not seem to be on the average woman's list of priorities.  When women moan in porn "Oh, you're so biiiig" -- remember, porn is 95% designed for men, and what's said/done/scripted is rarely what a woman is actually thinking, just what will appeal to the guys watching. Women learn to say it in real life to stroke their guy's ego and then that feeds the myth.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Near Lurker on 11 Jun 2010, 07:11
Ok, so, maybe its just me, and if that's the case, I'll shut up, but:

It is.  It really is.  I'm sure some of us agree that the boob talk needs to be dialed back a bit, but... not really for the same reasons.

Also, heteronormativity?  This is, at heart, a comic about straight people (namely, Marten and Faye).  Sure, they're in Northampton, but what, no one can write about straight people anymore?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 11 Jun 2010, 08:13
See? I told you she was going to be okay. Hooray for Marigold!

And the last panel is the funniest thing I've seen on QC in months—not that it hasn't been funny, but my sense of humor loces this sort of thing.

As the artificial boob argument is going on I figure I should say in fairness that guys aren't above trying for personal enhancement. Otherwise all those commercials with the creepy smile people for pills that promise to increase size wouldn't be on so often.

What country do you live in? The only commercials about those types of pills we get here are the ones about keeping it up longer (with the fast-talk at the end about how if it stays up for longer than four hours, go to a hospital before things start rupturing).
Blackjoker must live in the U.S. I can't recall the product, but I do remember the guy smirking (my SO hates that smirk) that the "extra size? That's kind of fun, too."

I have often wondered if guys really do show up in the ER with five-hour wood. That's got to be a nightmare.

mams busoms dirtypillows cans tatas puppies boobs hoochemamas pair bazooms milkers bits titties busoms dependants funbags bazongas breasts melons jugs hooters tits balcony tracts-of-land tetons

You forgot "Bristols", "Baps", "Bust", "Bosoms" and "Ta-tas".

Also, average cup size in the USA: B. Average cup size in the UK: D.

and people go on about "beeg amereecan tee-tees."  :roll:
Tatas is in there, thanks. So I forgot the hyphen. Isch ga-bibble. As for the others, I didn't imagine I had an exhaustive list. Makes me think of a line from No Small Affair.
*Snip* bosoms is in there twice, just misspelled.
If you ever heard anyone say bazooms, you'd know that's not true. And if it sounds like bosoms, they're not doing it right.

My personal bęte noir in that list is 'fun bags.' I don't know why, but I particularly dislike it.

Bristols?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 11 Jun 2010, 09:57
Yay, Dora's boob comment made Marigold laugh herself out of her funk!  If Mar-bear only had two bras ("my other bra"), then it's high time she went shopping for more anyway.  Wonder if she and Dora will swing by the Vibrator Shoppe as well.

And I love that Marten thought putting Angus and Faye in Time-Out in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka He Who Would Be Porn King and Future Wanglord.   :lol:  Not that it looks like anything's gonna happen, it's just among the things that are funny in that last shot.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: LeeC on 11 Jun 2010, 10:01
we went from "they have the hots for each other" to putting them both in the bedroom together...

scandalous :wink:
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Border Reiver on 11 Jun 2010, 10:08
Or is Marten simply a facilitator?  Or just not paying attention to detail?

Could become a "Seemed like a good idea at the time" moment.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Heliphyneau on 11 Jun 2010, 10:29
Or is Marten simply a facilitator?  Or just not paying attention to detail?

Could become a "Seemed like a good idea at the time" moment.

Heh, much of Marten's decision-making seems oops-ridden.   :wink:  Faye and Angus are still in schoolyard mode, though, so there's probably no risk of makeouts at this point -- they don't even have drunk bubbles.  As odd as it is that Pintsize is complying with Marten's apparent command to keep them separate, he may just be happy to be wielding a stick, something that by the look of it did not come from Dora's "party supplies."
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Binary on 11 Jun 2010, 11:06
Bristols?

UK rhyming slang. Bristol City is a football team. Bristol City = Titty. "Look at the bristols on that!"

Along with Chaucer and Shakespeare, just another of my country's many contributions to world culture.  :-D
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 11 Jun 2010, 11:32
As the artificial boob argument is going on I figure I should say in fairness that guys aren't above trying for personal enhancement. Otherwise all those commercials with the creepy smile people for pills that promise to increase size wouldn't be on so often.
Haven't you noticed a distinct absence of Smilin' Bob from the boob tube? (Sorry, hadda use "boob tube" in this thread.) The Enzyte people were sued over the fact that multiple scientific studies have shown their "proprietary" "herbal" "natural" con-cock-tion (Sorry, sorry, I'll stop that.) didn't do anything that it claimed, and so they were forced by the FDA to stop advertizing any of those claims, which is basicly their entire claim.

Quote
"You know how a woman gets a man excited? She shows up. That's it. We're guys, we're easy."

- Harrison Ford, Six Days And Seven Nights
Refresh my memory. Was that before, during, or after he had his hands down Anne Heche's shorts and Anne told him, "I better not catch you smiling."

As has already been mentioned, Wapsi Square did a bra-shopping arc several years ago, as did Devil's Panties even longer ago. There are easily enough webcomics in the slice-of-life genre to support basicly similar story arcs, I just hope Jeph is getting plenty of technical consultancy from his S.O., as I'm sure Paul "Pablo" Taylor does for his characters.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 11 Jun 2010, 11:38
[...]

Also, average cup size in the USA: B. Average cup size in the UK: D.

and people go on about "beeg amereecan tee-tees."  :roll:

But are the sizing conventions the same in both countries?

Pretty much, except that the original poster got his facts wrong. Average American size was a 34B back in the 90s. It is now a 36C, last time they conducted a study.  I am not sure where the UK average Switchblade got came from either, because as far as I know it's the same: used to be a 34B in the 90s, now 36C.  About the same number of sources say that if a study were to be conducted *right now* it might go up to 36D, but that's in both countries.

Source 1. (http://www.breastoptions.com/average.html)
Source 2. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-494374/Why-ARE-womens-figures-getting-fuller.html)
Source 3. (http://caloriecount.about.com/average-bra-size-ft10228)
Source 4. (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/57590)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 11 Jun 2010, 12:00
I think what you've discovered is age-related boob deflation there in Source 2. TMI ALERT! My mother and I wear exactly the same size.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: pendrake on 11 Jun 2010, 12:34
Wow, missed quite a week of good strips, but such is RL...


For strip #1682: Damage Control...

1. "Elder" Dora to the forefront of damage control, always cool to see.  Would that I had more friends like that.

2. Angus may or may not have deserved his punch, but Marten certainly did :police: .


For strip #1683: Don't Call Faye a Nazi...

3. Internet Drama is bad, but is mostly is just "farts on the wind" in the end (i forget who said that about internet drama).  Real Life Drama hurts because you are there &/or involved.


For strip #1684: Painfully Honest...

4. Nothing like a sexy (and humorous) non sequitur from everyone's favorite monogamous bi-sexual to halt a downward spiral of depression :lol: .


For strip #1685: fifteen minutes

5. Ah epiphany moments ("I...I am okay!").  Or perhaps just self-realization?  (yes, there is a differnce)

6. Girls' day out shopping for bras?  I see next week's (or whenever the YouTube party ends) potential line of strips.  (If not a bit of potential fan-service... :evil: )


In general...

7. I follow the guideline of Firefly's Captain Malcom Reynolds, "if anyone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back."  This also works for people hitting (or trying to hit) me.  Playful punches or "love taps" may (or may not) be gotten away with, but anyone hits you in anger, with intent, or just plain careless with their fists, absolutely return the "favor" regardless of gender, age, or social class (rich, nun, pop. star, brigadier general, etc).

9. "Baps," "Bristols," and "Tetons" were new terms for me :| .
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Somebody on 11 Jun 2010, 14:04
And I love that Marten thought putting Angus and Faye in Time-Out in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka He Who Would Be Porn King and Future Wanglord.   :lol:  Not that it looks like anything's gonna happen, it's just among the things that are funny in that last shot.
No, he put them in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka "The universe could undergo heat death and it would still be too soon." Moreover, he put the little bugger IN CHARGE.

What better way to ensure that Nothing Will Happen? :D
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Kugai on 11 Jun 2010, 14:18
Looks like Professor Pintsize has things well in hand with these two recalcitrants.

I wonder if they'll wind up shutting him off and making out?   :-D


I think Dora would have gone into brain freeze if Marigold had fallen out of her dress.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 11 Jun 2010, 14:59
JackFaerie,

You do realise that the Daily Mail is a tabloid and, as such, has less veracity than a politician?  Hell, I would even pay more attention to what Dubya says than a British tabloid!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Akima on 11 Jun 2010, 16:22
Gosh! I'm away for a couple of days, and miss out on a massive troll, and boobs!

The average shoe size is larger in America than the UK. And the fuel economy for a car in the UK is better than the fuel economy for the same car in the US.
Shoe sizes! Don't get me started! In Australia we have a mixture of UK, Americain, and "European" (originally French) systems. At least the Euro system is obviously different, but American and UK sizes look the same while actually differing by anything from half (men) to  two-and-a-half (for women, roughly) sizes:

(http://manoftoday.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/windowslivewriterinternationalshoesizeconversionchartscon-10249image02.png)

The totally messed up state of global shoe sizes is the reason we haven't been contacted by intelligent aliens. They don't want to catch the stupid virus. Unit confusion could lead to, I don't know... a space-probe being lost or something? Not that any competent organisation would ever let that happen (http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/launches/orbiter_errorupd_093099.htm)...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: tinkerbell on 11 Jun 2010, 17:08
Shoe sizes! Don't get me started! In Australia we have a mixture of UK, Americain, and "European" (originally French) systems. At least the Euro system is obviously different, but American and UK sizes look the same while actually differing by anything from half (men) to  two-and-a-half (for women, roughly) sizes:

Tell me about it! When I go to a shoe shop and the sales assistant asks for my size, they are met with an "uuuuuuuuuuhhh... about a nine... maybe?"
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: laizeohbeets on 11 Jun 2010, 17:19
There's a whole big mess, because I wear a 7-7.5 US. That should be a 6-6.5 in the UK. Nope. I wear a 5 there, typically.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Jun 2010, 20:07
Or is Marten simply a facilitator?  Or just not paying attention to detail?

Could become a "Seemed like a good idea at the time" moment.

Oh, you mean that It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItSeemedLikeAGoodIdeaAtTheTime)?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 11 Jun 2010, 22:12
And I love that Marten thought putting Angus and Faye in Time-Out in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka He Who Would Be Porn King and Future Wanglord.   :lol:  Not that it looks like anything's gonna happen, it's just among the things that are funny in that last shot.
No, he put them in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka "The universe could undergo heat death and it would still be too soon." Moreover, he put the little bugger IN CHARGE.

What better way to ensure that Nothing Will Happen? :D
Other than directing a continuous stream of icewater at them, I'm not sure. But Marten should've made sure Pintsize had a monitor so he could show 'em his 'collection.'
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: CEOIII on 11 Jun 2010, 22:26
And I love that Marten thought putting Angus and Faye in Time-Out in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka He Who Would Be Porn King and Future Wanglord.   :lol:  Not that it looks like anything's gonna happen, it's just among the things that are funny in that last shot.
No, he put them in a bedroom with Pintsize, aka "The universe could undergo heat death and it would still be too soon." Moreover, he put the little bugger IN CHARGE.

What better way to ensure that Nothing Will Happen? :D
Other than directing a continuous stream of icewater at them, I'm not sure. But Marten should've made sure Pintsize had a monitor so he could show 'em his 'collection.'

Dude. 2 minutes into the first Hentai, they'd both dive out the window. And I don't think they have a fire escape.

I love panel 5 of the Friday comic. "I.....I AM OK."

Yeah, Mari, you're OK. You're still a little introverted, you're not gonna get over Angus real soon, you only have two bras and one's broke.

But you have friends who like you and include you, wearing outfits like the one you have on now could get you a guy to get you over Angus(Word of advice: Consider "Alliance SCUM!". Just because he's a night elf rogue, that don't make him all bad), and hopefully you, Dora, Faye and Hanners will get you proper holsters for your cannons.

You're OK. And even if you're not, I have a sense you will be.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nodaisho on 11 Jun 2010, 22:32
That shoe size chart is completely different than my experiences, I just bought some shoes a few days ago. Size 10.5 UK, 12.5 US, 44.5 Euro, 29.0 CM That doesn't match up with the table at all. The funny thing is, even in the US, Converse are measured in UK sizes. And they are an American company.

Of course, boots also have their own sizing, usually one size up from their labeled size, probably for foot expansion after walking around for a while. Yeah, it's a mess, that is why I don't buy shoes online. It usually takes me 20 minutes to find the right size shoe. Thankfully I don't go shoe shopping often.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jun 2010, 23:20
I'm glad Marigirl says she's OK now, but she sure seems like someone whose self-esteem problems run way deeper than can be fixed with a few social outings.

That neglect of grooming and maintenance of living space could be absent-mindedness, could be cluelessness, but it's also a classic symptom of clinical depression.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 12 Jun 2010, 01:58
I have a confession to make: I'm a Dalegold[1] shipper.

[...]

Yeah, it's a mess, that is why I don't buy shoes online. It usually takes me 20 minutes to find the right size shoe. Thankfully I don't go shoe shopping often.

It's even worse for those like me who have odd shaped feet.  My feet are slightly wider than normal.  In my experience it's usually the more expensive shops that have half and wide/thin sizes so it normally takes me close to an hour or two to find something that fits in an unfamiliar shoe shop.

I have found one shoe that I can buy on-line.  It's got a lot of elastic in the design so it fits a reasonable range of feet.

I'm glad Marigirl says she's OK now, but she sure seems like someone whose self-esteem problems run way deeper than can be fixed with a few social outings.

That neglect of grooming and maintenance of living space could be absent-mindedness, could be cluelessness, but it's also a classic symptom of clinical depression.

Depression attacks self-esteem and low self-esteem contributes to depression but I suspect the self-esteem came first.  I get the impression that Marigold's self-esteem is based too much on what people think of her.  She's going to have to learn how to rely on her own resources.


[1] I prefer Dalegold to Maridale as the former is close to "Danegeld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld)".  Considering that WoW is loosely based on ancient societies, has raids, etc...
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: laizeohbeets on 12 Jun 2010, 07:13
The funny thing is, even in the US, Converse are measured in UK sizes. And they are an American company.

They're not. A size 7 womens = a size 5 mens. If I buy men's sneakers in the  US, they are always a size 5.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: JackFaerie on 12 Jun 2010, 12:01
JackFaerie,

You do realise that the Daily Mail is a tabloid and, as such, has less veracity than a politician?  Hell, I would even pay more attention to what Dubya says than a British tabloid!

Yep. That's why it wasn't my only source, although it sure seems to be the most popular one to discuss on here. I think that says more about you guys than me. :-p  I used it to show that even sensationalistic British media isn't claiming the new average bra size is above 36C.

Re: other poster, about age-related deflation: nope. If you read the interviews, the women make it clear it doesn't just have to do with age. And if gramma is a B now, no way she was a DD when she was young--there's only so much you deflate. (If anything, sag usually adds a cup size. How perky and "full" breasts look has nothing to do with that cup size they are.)
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Nodaisho on 12 Jun 2010, 16:39
The funny thing is, even in the US, Converse are measured in UK sizes. And they are an American company.

They're not. A size 7 womens = a size 5 mens. If I buy men's sneakers in the  US, they are always a size 5.
I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Converse might not be quite UK sizes, but all three pairs I looked at in my size range matched UK sizing, it could just be coincidental and their own in-house measurements just match UK sizes at that point. They definitely aren't normal US shoe sizing, though.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2010, 01:07
Most Likely to Do Something Incredibly Embarassing/Stupid This Week
Marigold    - 47 (46.5%)
Marten    - 10 (9.9%)
Dora    - 2 (2%)
Faye    - 5 (5%)
Hannelore    - 0 (0%)
Tai    - 22 (21.8%)
Cosette    - 12 (11.9%)
Other (please state)    - 3 (3%)

Total Voters: 101

I'm actually going to say Tai was the winner, with Marten second and Marigold third.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 13 Jun 2010, 05:29
jw,

I take it you do the surveys?

Could you also put the option for "I...I am OK."
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jun 2010, 08:35
I just do the ones for the WCT's I make.

I'm actually thinking it should be the last poll of the week IMNSHO, but that's just me.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 13 Jun 2010, 09:21
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: LTK on 13 Jun 2010, 12:11
Did no one wonder how Pintsize is even holding that stick?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2010, 13:52
Yes.

The occasional impossibility may be Jeph's way of splashing cold water in the face of people playing the "pretend it's a documentary" game.

Alternatively Pintsize may have done it with the aid of SCIENCE (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=90).
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: evilbobthebob on 13 Jun 2010, 13:53
Or more likely, magnets.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Carl-E on 13 Jun 2010, 15:54
Magnets are science. 

So is stick-um. 
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: IanClark on 13 Jun 2010, 16:14
Not true! No one knows how magnets work, but it's a question that's been asked time immemorial. In fact, I often find myself wondering how fuckin' magnets work.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 13 Jun 2010, 16:50
Wait, wait, wait. You mean the damned things fuck? Why has no one ever warned me about this? I mean, I have several of them on my fridge door right now. Have they been…copulating that close to my food every night?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Mad Cat on 13 Jun 2010, 17:52
Not true! No one knows how magnets work, but it's a question that's been asked time immemorial. In fact, I often find myself wondering how fuckin' magnets work.
Magnetic fields occur whenever electrons move. Since electrons are constantly in motion about their respective nucleae, there are always magnetic fields. If the atom has an even number of electrons, then in the aggregate, for every electron orbitting in one direction, there's an electron orbitting in exactly the opposite direction and there is no net magnetic field, as the magnetic fields of the two electrons cancel each other out.

However, in some elements, notably, the metals, there is always an additional electron either present or missing, which allows individual atoms to possess a net magnetic field. However, just like the electrons around an individual nuclear, a quantity of atoms of a given element tend to be oriented randomly, which means the material is not able to build up a net magnetic field where all atoms are oriented int he same direction.

But, if enough of these "ferro-magnetic" elements are arranged together in certain molecular structures, the atoms are held in the same orientation, allowing the material to exhibit a static magnetic field unrelated to any external, physical stimulae. Such molecular arrangements fall into a number of families. Some of the most popular are AlNiCo, aluminum, nickel, and cobalt; Samarium Cobalt; and Neodymium. The magnetic properties of any of these naturally magnetic materials can be destroyed by heating, which liberates atoms from the molecular structure and thus destroys the magnetic field, and dropping or striking, which does the same, but on a much weaker scale. Likewise, ferro-magnetic materials which do not have net magnetic fields may have weak net magnetic fields imparted to them by striking them upon something hard, such as striking an iron rod on concrete. This is the result of the temporary alignment of atoms.

The technology of nMRI, or Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging, is that of placing a living human in a large magnetic field, thus forcing any and all atoms which have a net magnetic field of their own to orient in place with the external magnetic field. Once so oriented, all affected tissues are bombarded by RF (radio) energy of various frequencies. Certain atoms in certain molecules will absorb the RF energy and then immediately reradiate it as a photon of light. Those photons penetrate the body to the machine's detector. Since the machine knows the frequency of RF energy it is emitting at the moment and can detect the direction from which the resonant photons are being emitted, it is possible to map the internal structures of the body without surgery by sweeping across a band of the RF spectrum and by imaging multiple slices of the body. It's like the way different colors of "neon" lights are formed by gases other than neon, xenon, flourine, hydrogen, argon, etc.

tl;dr: So, there you have it. Naturally occurring magnetic fields are the result of the alignment of atoms. No more mystery.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Lost Coastlines on 13 Jun 2010, 17:56
Wait, wait, wait. You mean the damned things fuck? Why has no one ever warned me about this? I mean, I have several of them on my fridge door right now. Have they been…copulating that close to my food every night?

Magnets are homophobic propaganda from the religious right.  It's always north and south poles together, but two north or two south, nope!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Newbia on 13 Jun 2010, 18:57
Thanks for the science lesson, Mad Cat. :)

Also, re: do men look big or small boobs? : it's not the boobs that matter, it's how you wear them. If a woman displays a lot of confidence and knows how to show off her body the right way, then she'll look sexy, no matter what body type she is.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: IanClark on 13 Jun 2010, 23:42
Not true! No one knows how magnets work, but it's a question that's been asked time immemorial. In fact, I often find myself wondering how fuckin' magnets work.
Magnetic fields occur whenever electrons move. Since electrons are constantly in motion about their respective nucleae, there are always magnetic fields. If the atom has an even number of electrons, then in the aggregate, for every electron orbitting in one direction, there's an electron orbitting in exactly the opposite direction and there is no net magnetic field, as the magnetic fields of the two electrons cancel each other out.

However, in some elements, notably, the metals, there is always an additional electron either present or missing, which allows individual atoms to possess a net magnetic field. However, just like the electrons around an individual nuclear, a quantity of atoms of a given element tend to be oriented randomly, which means the material is not able to build up a net magnetic field where all atoms are oriented int he same direction.

But, if enough of these "ferro-magnetic" elements are arranged together in certain molecular structures, the atoms are held in the same orientation, allowing the material to exhibit a static magnetic field unrelated to any external, physical stimulae. Such molecular arrangements fall into a number of families. Some of the most popular are AlNiCo, aluminum, nickel, and cobalt; Samarium Cobalt; and Neodymium. The magnetic properties of any of these naturally magnetic materials can be destroyed by heating, which liberates atoms from the molecular structure and thus destroys the magnetic field, and dropping or striking, which does the same, but on a much weaker scale. Likewise, ferro-magnetic materials which do not have net magnetic fields may have weak net magnetic fields imparted to them by striking them upon something hard, such as striking an iron rod on concrete. This is the result of the temporary alignment of atoms.

The technology of nMRI, or Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging, is that of placing a living human in a large magnetic field, thus forcing any and all atoms which have a net magnetic field of their own to orient in place with the external magnetic field. Once so oriented, all affected tissues are bombarded by RF (radio) energy of various frequencies. Certain atoms in certain molecules will absorb the RF energy and then immediately reradiate it as a photon of light. Those photons penetrate the body to the machine's detector. Since the machine knows the frequency of RF energy it is emitting at the moment and can detect the direction from which the resonant photons are being emitted, it is possible to map the internal structures of the body without surgery by sweeping across a band of the RF spectrum and by imaging multiple slices of the body. It's like the way different colors of "neon" lights are formed by gases other than neon, xenon, flourine, hydrogen, argon, etc.

tl;dr: So, there you have it. Naturally occurring magnetic fields are the result of the alignment of atoms. No more mystery.

Y'all motherfuckers be lyin' and gettin' me pissed!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Jun 2010, 00:04
tl; [although I did read it]: So, there you have it. Naturally occurring magnetic fields are the result of the alignment of atoms. No more mystery.
I see nothing in this explanation that tells me whether or not I need to protect my chilled viands from disgusting magnet-sex.

And on a crazier note, apparently there's some guy who claims that by applying magnets to a person's brain's right hemisphere, he can cause said person's brain to 'sense' the divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet)—or maybe tilt, I'm not sure which.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 01:16
[...]

And on a crazier note, apparently there's some guy who claims that by applying magnets to a person's brain's right hemisphere, he can cause said person's brain to 'sense' the divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet)—or maybe tilt, I'm not sure which.

That was discussed in a recent episode of "All in the mind" (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2010/2909156.htm) from ABC Radio National.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: Binary on 14 Jun 2010, 02:41
I see nothing in this explanation that tells me whether or not I need to protect my chilled viands from disgusting magnet-sex.

Don't panic, raoullefere. It's magnetic flux, not magnetic fucks.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: J on 14 Jun 2010, 02:56
[...]

And on a crazier note, apparently there's some guy who claims that by applying magnets to a person's brain's right hemisphere, he can cause said person's brain to 'sense' the divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet)—or maybe tilt, I'm not sure which.

That was discussed in a recent episode of "All in the mind" (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2010/2909156.htm) from ABC Radio National.

if you know what you are doing you can make people sense just about any damn thing by stimulating the right part of their brains. and how exactly does one quantify that anyway? how do you know that what you are sensing is the divine, unless you have some sort of an established baseline for comparison? is the divine squishy? is it warm? does it smell like burnt toast, or taste like purple?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 03:11
[...]

And on a crazier note, apparently there's some guy who claims that by applying magnets to a person's brain's right hemisphere, he can cause said person's brain to 'sense' the divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet)—or maybe tilt, I'm not sure which.

That was discussed in a recent episode of "All in the mind" (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2010/2909156.htm) from ABC Radio National.

if you know what you are doing you can make people sense just about any damn thing by stimulating the right part of their brains. and how exactly does one quantify that anyway? how do you know that what you are sensing is the divine, unless you have some sort of an established baseline for comparison? is the divine squishy? is it warm? does it smell like burnt toast, or taste like purple?

From what I remember of the podcast (you can use that link to listen or read the transcript), the theory goes like this:

The two hemispheres of our brain are semi-independent but we are one person.  We have cross connections to make sure that two sides are in sync.  By stimulating one side in the right place, it goes out of sync wth the other hemisphere.  As there are two sets of things going on in one brain (in a part that should shoudl be synchronised) the brain gets confused and interprets it as evidence for another entity being there.  In order to make sense of the confusion, the brain falls back on the personal belief system of the person whose brain is so disrupted.

Of course, when it comes to psychology/neuroscience we don't know if we're right or not, we can only make intelligent guesses.

{edit} The reason why it's reported that it causes people to sense the divine is because that's what lots of people have reported.  However, it's interesting to note the experiences of genuine atheists, such as the host of All in the Mind, when they try the experiment.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Jun 2010, 15:58
*Snip*
Don't panic, raoullefere.
First sensible thing anyone's said to me all week.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: The Duke on 14 Jun 2010, 16:31
Was it really all week?  Remember, time is an illusion.  Lunchtime doubly so.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Jun 2010, 18:00
*Snip*
Don't panic, raoullefere.
First sensible thing anyone's said to me all week.
(Hands you a copy of the HGTTG) Here, Ford had an extra copy lying about.
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: raoullefere on 14 Jun 2010, 19:50
Oh, no! Last time I read that thing, the entry on my planet drove me into a ego-punctured tailspin. Two words?
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: akronnick on 14 Jun 2010, 20:51
Well that's what you get for living in sector ZedZed9 plural Zed Alpha.










Dammit, I go AFK for a few days and when I come back I can't even use the goddamn internet!@#$%!
Title: Re: WCT: 7-11 June 2010
Post by: HiFranc on 14 Jun 2010, 22:58
Oh, no! Last time I read that thing, the entry on my planet drove me into a ego-punctured tailspin. Two words?

Didn't you know that's been updated now?[1]

Ps.
Could a New Yorker tell me how accurate Ford's entry on New York is?

[1] I believe it was in book 4.