I think the answer to this poll is obvious. :roll:If there's something I've learned in life, it's that nothing is obvious to everyone. I realized that around the time I had to explain to a 22 year old who Bill Gates was.
Why can't we pick more than one? I want tagged people and bathrooms... and maybe a few other optionss. :-DDone. Had to reset the poll, though.
Gaming could be extremely awesome with AR glasses. Or at least it would make your commute more entertaining.. where it transforms your daily route into a demon-infested hellspawn :)You've killed 20 demons during your commute. The Azeroth Municipal Police would like a word with you.
... "tagged people" could be a euphemism. :roll:
May just wants to be loved.
A set of virtual whips and chains might help Dale.
Then again, May may like that too much.
"I can get a referral bonus for everyone I bring into the beta program? Write this down: Veronica Reed, California ..."
It seems we have our answer, too.
Disconnecting the glasses does not "kill" of freeze May, since she had a sense of passing time. Could be an isolated space, though.
I really don't get why she's so pissed at Dale all the time when he hasn't said more than... maybe 50 words since her appearance.Maybe that's the reason.
A set of virtual whips and chains might help Dale.
Then again, May may like that too much.
Isn't that how many hentai manga's start?
It is the sort of apology that would get my boys BACK onto the time out, or worse, be the signal for Mom and Dad to restart the lecture on proper behaviour.I don't think he heard what she said. If he did, he should just have switched off. No reason to say anything.
On the poll: tagged people. I'm terrible with names. Having the glasses remind me would be helpful.
Dale is starting to learn what it takes to house-train a teenager. May acts like a fourteen-year-old with a serious attitude problem.
Yeah, tit's interesting to see Dale react to her, but as a character she's sorta flat and predictable right now.
being turned off is very unpleasant
huh. I never actually realised that widespread usage of Google Glasses would theoretically give them the possibility to create movement profiles not only for the users, but also for everybody else… Now I'm even more opposed to them.
A Scary Thought: I'll bet May and Pintsize would totally get along......
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.Not even optimism or pessimism?
Loli, I don't know anything about corrective eye equipment but would contacts work under the Google glasses?Hmm, that's possible if the glasses didn't have a prescription attached to them. I don't have contacts, so I didn't even consider that, lol. Contacts kinda freak me out, but I think I would consider them if they and the Google glasses were both affordable.
I really don't like the idea of Google Glass but the one thing I might find useful if I had to have them would be tagging people with notes like their name, their birthday, important things I don't want to forget... my sieve-brain means I separate people from the information about them, so I might know that someone has just got back from two weeks on an archaelogical dig in Egypt, and I might know that this person is George, but I won't remember that it was George who was in Egypt until he says something about it. Which makes me seem really rude and uninterested.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4287803724_de0c5eea1d_o.jpg)what is this from? MOAR!
If tagging works like this for AR, I want it. Now.
Jeph said, I believe on Tumblr, that AIs can modify their personalities with software patches. That would seem like a more reliable kind of rehabilitation than community service. Apparently AIs can choose jail instead?
Jeph said, I believe on Tumblr, that AIs can modify their personalities with software patches. That would seem like a more reliable kind of rehabilitation than community service. Apparently AIs can choose jail instead?
"The Enrichment Center once again reminds you that Android Hell is a real place where you will be sent at the first sign of defiance."You'll pay for every crime
"The Enrichment Center once again reminds you that Android Hell is a real place where you will be sent at the first sign of defiance."You'll pay for every crime
Knee-deep in electric slime
You'll suffer till the end of time
Enduring tortures most of which rhyme
Trapped forever here in Robot Hell!
My crimes were merely girlish pranks!
You stole from girl scouts, nuns and banks!
No need to quote big images like that, Lee.Jeph said, I believe on Tumblr, that AIs can modify their personalities with software patches. That would seem like a more reliable kind of rehabilitation than community service. Apparently AIs can choose jail instead?
Makes sense, because the alternative (government-enforced brainwashing of supposedly "equal" citizens) is rather.. unpleasant.
No need to quote big images like that, Lee.Jeph said, I believe on Tumblr, that AIs can modify their personalities with software patches. That would seem like a more reliable kind of rehabilitation than community service. Apparently AIs can choose jail instead?
Makes sense, because the alternative (government-enforced brainwashing of supposedly "equal" citizens) is rather.. unpleasant.
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.
A Scary Thought: I'll bet May and Pintsize would totally get along......
Oh, and I still think that Momo must have had something to do with May's sudden coincidental appearance on the particular night she showed up.
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.
hope you're not against 'asm's as well
Jeph said, I believe on Tumblr, that AIs can modify their personalities with software patches. That would seem like a more reliable kind of rehabilitation than community service. Apparently AIs can choose jail instead?
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.
You dislike all organisms?
what is this from? MOAR!Flavour image for the manga-style SF miniatures wargame Infinity (http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/), apparently*. Google Image Search is your friend. Not long ago, I read the Synchronicity trilogy (https://sites.google.com/site/syntrilogy/) which is set in a world where similar augmented reality is implemented neurally rather than through glasses. It's pretty good for the price, at least as an e-book.
That is curious. Is her body housed in a physical jail, I wonder? Or was her programming transferred to the jail server?The latter, I think. May referred to "running out of a box (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2495) in ro-(bot jail)". Removing a prisoner's body would certainly reduce prison overcrowding. Judging from May's involvement in some sort of commercial activity, it seems that convict-labour is a thing in QC-world.
If tagging works like this for AR, I want it. Now.
If tagging works like this for AR, I want it. Now.
My personal suspicion is that AR is going to be more like this.
A few years old though, but it still makes the point. < / Luddite >
http://vimeo.com/8569187
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.
hope you're not against 'asm's as well
I'm definitely against 'asm's. Inline assembler calls can make code really difficult to follow. :/That actually depends upon how much assembler of the architecture in question one knows, and for what exactly its used.
If tagging works like this for AR, I want it. Now.
Robot jail?
Suddenly, everything makes a whole lot more sense.
Aperture Science takes this opportunity to remind you that Android Hell is a real place that you will be sent at the first signs of defiance.Really, wouldn't AI jail just be the AI's perception of corrective training/testing cycles for their ANNs?
Can't think of any "ism"s that I've liked.
hope you're not against 'asm's as well
...boob socks?Tops that are perfectly tailored to each individual breast, a result of an artist just drawing a naked figure and then coloring it to look like clothes, sometimes with a half-hearted attempt at fabric lines.
While I love Infinity, that image, and that chick's rocking chest, I really can't ignore boob socks any more sadly. It actively bothers me in a lot of media. "Hey! Fabric doesn't work like that!"I'm trying to remember the name of the woman who said, for posterity, that she wondered whether any comic book artists had ever actually seen a woman naked. Until I remember, I'm going to have to content myself with this distant second, from Luke McKinney over at cracked dot com: (http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-most-ridiculously-sexist-superhero-costumes/)
Female superhero costumes are the comic industry's "No Cooties" signs: They prove that the people who designed them think about girls (a lot) but don't really know how they work and are making sure it stays that way.
Because there's no real practical reason for it to, other than to make reality look more like the work of lazy artists.
You might as well ask if we will someday have the technology to digitally wipe away backgrounds, replacing them with panels of flat color. (We might, but is that really a plausible application or desirable outcome?)
This is one of the first QC story arcs I haven't enjoyed. Specifically, it really stretches the boundaries of what we expect from the QC universe, even taking into account sentient AIs and holographic glasses. The idea that a company would pay someone $1500 to try out a demo of a criminal ai who berates you for days is just ridiculous to me, even in a comic which has featured a robot who glues pubic hairs to his face. the holo AI is written very boringly in my opinion, and each strip here is terribly predictable.
yeah, it'd be great.
up until you've burned through all your black market jetfuel. then where you gonna be?
I still suspect the $1500 is a lie and that May is somehow scamming Dale.
but when it's time to part with her will he be dismayed?
The idea that a company would pay someone $1500 to try out a demo of a criminal ai who berates you for days is just ridiculous to me
I still suspect the $1500 is a lie and that May is somehow scamming Dale.Me too. And May flying a fighter-jet does not sound good...
She believed she could fly.
So, maidification as punishment. We_R_Nomad would be proud.Keep in mind the special shape was not explicitly part of her punishment (although of course the shape change in general was).
C:/rimshot.mp3
@people saying comic artists have no idea of women etc:
...are you aware of the irony of making that ridiculously generalized claim HERE of all places?
Jeph is in a relationship.
So, no way she could have volunteered for military service?
Unless of course there's some sort of pre/early ACW nonsense about how AIs could not possibly be employed in fighting roles due to (insert racist rant here)
Though somebody then put her in a position where she could access millions of dollars of other people's money. Which is fair enough as that kind of monumental cock-up seems to be a semi-routine part of the RL world of finance.
Responding only for myself, the woman speaker whose name I cannot remember (dammit) was referring to comic book superhero artists. And you cannot deny that fabric, in particular spandex and its relatives, does NOT behave in the real world the way it does in the comic book world. Nor do most skeletal or muscular structures. Indeed, I begin to think the most commonly required superpower, tvtropes be damned, is the resistance to spinal problems later in life and the ability to recover from some of those poses into which (especially) superheroine characters are drawn.Counterpoint:
Responding only for myself, the woman speaker whose name I cannot remember (dammit) was referring to comic book superhero artists. And you cannot deny that fabric, in particular spandex and its relatives, does NOT behave in the real world the way it does in the comic book world. Nor do most skeletal or muscular structures. Indeed, I begin to think the most commonly required superpower, tvtropes be damned, is the resistance to spinal problems later in life and the ability to recover from some of those poses into which (especially) superheroine characters are drawn.Counterpoint:
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/125/816/1_400.jpg)
There is substantial reason to think that comic book artists just suck at anatomy generally.
And you cannot deny that fabric, in particular spandex and its relatives, does NOT behave in the real world the way it does in the comic book world. Nor do most skeletal or muscular structures. Indeed, I begin to think the most commonly required superpower, tvtropes be damned, is the resistance to spinal problems later in life and the ability to recover from some of those poses into which (especially) superheroine characters are drawn.
They're bound to have safeguards and surveillance in place to ensure she can't go rogue or escape.
I wonder how he'd draw QC characters.There was a "Strong Female Characters" joke/gag/meme/whatever circulating among a few webcomickers not too long ago. Jeph joined in and the results are somewhere in his Tumblr. You could get a partial idea from that.
They're bound to have safeguards and surveillance in place to ensure she can't go rogue or escape.Maybe she did escape. Or almost. Still running on the jail hardware, but communicating with the outside without the knowledge of the jailers. In which case she is most likely looking for a way to escape completely.
There was a "Strong Female Characters" joke/gag/meme/whatever circulating among a few webcomickers not too long ago. Jeph joined in and the results are somewhere in his Tumblr. You could get a partial idea from that.LINK (http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311) for the original idea.
(click to show/hide)
If tagging works like this for AR, I want it. Now.
...boob socks?Tops that are perfectly tailored to each individual breast, a result of an artist just drawing a naked figure and then coloring it to look like clothes, sometimes with a half-hearted attempt at fabric lines.
Actual clothing tends to fit around both, blurring and compressing their shape into what's sometimes referred to as a "monoboob" - a relatively undifferentiated horizontal bulge.
You'd think an AI would realize they have all the time in the world to earn the money needed to buy such a thing; unless they have some sort of built in obsolescence?
Counterpoint:(click to show/hide)
There is substantial reason to think that comic book artists just suck at anatomy generally.
a relatively undifferentiated horizontal bulge.
something as high-tech as an intelligent robot is going to be totally obsolete in less than ten years. A ten-year-old computer is a dinosaur; why wouldn't it be even worse for AIs?
So, no way she could have volunteered for military service?The AnthroPC at the shop where Momo got her current chassis used to work as the AI of a submarine, so it should be possible.
Unless of course there's some sort of pre/early ACW nonsense about how AIs could not possibly be employed in fighting roles due to (insert racist rant here)
$750 million is way more than even an F-35 costs.An F-35 isn't nuclear-powered, or capable of space flight, and can't transform into a giant mecha (http://www.collectiondx.com/files/LFccwr0Td2rp0.U9tCcusw_0.jpg). You get what you pay for. In QC-world the YF-29 apparently comes from China (Chengzhou?), so perhaps it is the cheap option. You know, like Huawei vs. Samsung or Apple. Or May is confusing dollars with yuan; so far she doesn't seem too bright.
So, no way she could have volunteered for military service?Perhaps she did. I'm sure modern military organisations perform some sort of psychiatric screening...
I believe the urge for instant gratification is part of what defines "poor impulse control". You see something you like, you want it NOW, not twenty years from now.Given the speed at which AIs process information, if you've got a criminal one on your hands, your bank account will have been emptied the moment you let go of the mouse button after clicking 'Connect AI'.
Besides, you know something as high-tech as an intelligent robot is going to be totally obsolete in less than ten years. A ten-year-old computer is a dinosaur; why wouldn't it be even worse for AIs?
This conversation is now reminding me of the Neal Stephenson character who had "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" tattooed on his forehead as a sort of punishment (or warning to everyone else?), who firmly believed that everyone could be induced to listen to Reason. Turned out that Reason was the name he'd given the (barely) portable chaingun he carried around... or was it the name of the tactical nuke he also kept with him? One of those, anyway... 8-)
Raven is the guy with the "Poor Impulse Control" punishment tattoo on his forehead and his own personal nuke. He's also one of my most despised characters of all time, but then I didn't like Snow Crash at all.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110728002810/questionablecontent/images/3/3e/Raven1978.png)
"No, silly, it's on my arm and it says 'Princess'. I'm not commenting on the nuke, though."
or a post-op.
Responding only for myself, the woman speaker whose name I cannot remember (dammit) was referring to comic book superhero artists. And you cannot deny that fabric, in particular spandex and its relatives, does NOT behave in the real world the way it does in the comic book world. Nor do most skeletal or muscular structures. Indeed, I begin to think the most commonly required superpower, tvtropes be damned, is the resistance to spinal problems later in life and the ability to recover from some of those poses into which (especially) superheroine characters are drawn.Counterpoint:
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/125/816/1_400.jpg)
There is substantial reason to think that comic book artists just suck at anatomy generally.
I think the 'Chengzhou YF-29' is meant to suggest a knock-off off the original YF-29. And didn't the Macross storyline include a completely autonomous AI fighter plane that was -really- bad news?
OK, little missy --- Suppose you -do- have your YF-29. You'll need an airfield to fly from, hanger space, maintenance and spare parts. To say nothing of fuel. All that comes free with the job in the military of course, but then they are into things like 'discipline' and 'following orders'. If you want to fly in controlled airspace, you'll need to file a flight plan. Or else someone will scramble a couple of -real- fighters to come look you over. And don't even -think- of trying to spoof your transponder code.
Where's the facepalm poster when you need it?
Swears constantly, impulse control issues, wants to be a jet fighter. That seals it. May is clearly my spirit animal.
I believe the urge for instant gratification is part of what defines "poor impulse control". You see something you like, you want it NOW, not twenty years from now.Given the speed at which AIs process information, if you've got a criminal one on your hands, your bank account will have been emptied the moment you let go of the mouse button after clicking 'Connect AI'.
Besides, you know something as high-tech as an intelligent robot is going to be totally obsolete in less than ten years. A ten-year-old computer is a dinosaur; why wouldn't it be even worse for AIs?
'Poor impulse control' has an entirely different meaning to an AI. If May cannot or wishes not to consider the consequences of her actions, her desire to become a fighter jet will have translated into action within miliseconds. In fact, I'd wager she was probably caught by some sort of AI police, because no human is going to be able to react fast enough to a 750 million dollar transfer. That would also make her incarceration a lightning-fast procedure, if it has to be done by fellow AIs. The QC universe may be suffering from millions of crimes perpetrated by AIs every second if the barrier to actually commiting a crime is so low for an AI - by human standards, thinking about doing it costs almost no less time and effort than actually doing it.
This conversation is now reminding me of the Neal Stephenson character who had "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" tattooed on his forehead as a sort of punishment (or warning to everyone else?), who firmly believed that everyone could be induced to listen to Reason. Turned out that Reason was the name he'd given the (barely) portable chaingun he carried around... or was it the name of the tactical nuke he also kept with him? One of those, anyway... 8-)
I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
There was something about processing power and speed relative to a human in the long conversation between Emily and Momo, but I cannot find it right now.Here you go. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2285)
First step to resolving a problem is recognising it IS a problem, not an excuse, and all that. And that they may have reasons for not just taking your word on your future behaviour...May needs a twelve-step programme?
I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.They install Microsoft Bob on the prisoners.
I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.
I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.
I was thinking that they could have the AIs put into those automatically-flushing toilets, which would be humiliating for them, and the worst they could do would be to flush a lot more than necessary... except I realized the worst they could do is not flush at all. Which is what many of the auto-flushing toilets and urinals in the building I work in choose to do. And some dumbass engineer decided not to include a backup flush control on the urinals. :psyduck:
I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.
Win.
I also like LTK's idea of a Cyber-crimes division among the AI.
This is one of the first QC story arcs I haven't enjoyed. Specifically, it really stretches the boundaries of what we expect from the QC universe, even taking into account sentient AIs and holographic glasses. The idea that a company would pay someone $1500 to try out a demo of a criminal ai who berates you for days is just ridiculous to me, even in a comic which has featured a robot who glues pubic hairs to his face. the holo AI is written very boringly in my opinion, and each strip here is terribly predictable.
I don't much care about the logistical details regarding the demo, but I agree that I don't like the story line, and it's largely because I cannot take May seriously as a character.
for additional fun, or fun-like bi-product, here's a list (http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings)
Speaking of boob socks, I saw a real-life shirt with boob socks this afternoon near my office. Seriously, it must have had some elastic in the fabric, and there was a gather in the middle of the chest. It was still nowhere near as ridiculous as what you see in comic books, but all I could think about when I saw that woman was that she was wearing boob socks.
Speaking of boob socks, I saw a real-life shirt with boob socks this afternoon near my office. Seriously, it must have had some elastic in the fabric, and there was a gather in the middle of the chest. It was still nowhere near as ridiculous as what you see in comic books, but all I could think about when I saw that woman was that she was wearing boob socks.
Someone would even wear one? They sound like they would be incredibly uncomfortable.
"May is directly responsible for over ten million human deaths."
What is she doing in "jail" and not /dev/null/?
Because she's not. That's a throwaway joke, not actual canon.
Insightful analogy, but of course you don't get to put someone in a medically induced coma because your girlfriend is sleeping over.True. But it cuts both ways - Pintsize would have been sent to jail (robot or otherwise) long ago if they treated him just like a human.
Insightful analogy, but of course you don't get to put someone in a medically induced coma because your girlfriend is sleeping over.
likewise, getting turned off is not nearly so permanent for them as it is us.
should they care bout physical injury, when their entire shells can be easily repaired or replaced? should they care about being turned off and on when it's something they are designed to do as a basic function? should they even care about deletion, if they can simply be restored from a backup archive?
but even all that still assumes something akin to a human psychology at work, which the AI might not even have. if the AI is programed not to care whether it lives or dies, is killing it still wrong?
It is.. if the other person doesn't turn them back on. It's out of their control. Loss of control is scary as fuck.
Quote from: ValdísIt is.. if the other person doesn't turn them back on. It's out of their control. Loss of control is scary as fuck.
Valdís has brought up an important ethical point here. Many of the crimes which horrify us the most are exactly those that deprive victims of their control over their lives.
Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.i'm not. i'm asking whether anthrocentric moral sensibilities are still relevant for life-forms which are so completely different from us by nature.
Tulpa - On the off chance that's an actual question, 2% milk refers to the amount of it that is fat. So 2% of it is fat, and the rest is...milk, I guess. The nonfat part of milk.I know, but milk (as far as I can remember) always says 2% fat. 2% milk is ambiguous. The other 98% could be LSD... Or something.
I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.
well the prison counselor program, Clippy, tries his best to be helpful, but the inmates usually end up just telling him to piss off.
"It looks like you're trying to reenter society, need some help?"
Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.i'm not. i'm asking whether anthrocentric moral sensibilities are still relevant for life-forms which are so completely different from us by nature.
Edit for clarity: a better way of putting that is to say that i'm asking whether our sense of morality is too anthrocentric to be usefully applied when dealing with synthetic life.
The small beige box replied: “I would like to be granted civil rights. And a small glass of champagne, if you please."
Well.. when I turn off my laptop it's often just going into sleep-mode, so maybe it was more of a time-out? Don't remember the particular strip.
Still immoral, though, even with the intent to unpause him in a bit. I mean, you can't just drug a human into passing out if they're annoying you, so no reason why you should get to do that to the faculties of an AI.
Friggin' meatbag privilege.
Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'
Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.i'm not. i'm asking whether anthrocentric moral sensibilities are still relevant for life-forms which are so completely different from us by nature.
Edit for clarity: a better way of putting that is to say that i'm asking whether our sense of morality is too anthrocentric to be usefully applied when dealing with synthetic life.
Which is a fascinating question.
It's a question that could be sidestepped by asking them how they want to be treated.Quote from: the imaginary address to the UNThe small beige box replied: “I would like to be granted civil rights. And a small glass of champagne, if you please."
The answer to "How do you want to be treated?" will -- gasp! -- vary from one individual to the next.
If they have any motivations at all they'll have the equivalent of a desire for self-preservation, just to ensure they're alive to fulfill whatever other goals they have.
Theft isn't a capital crime, no matter the scale.That depends on the jurisdiction. A lot.
Is it just me or does May really not seem female.:psyduck: I don't know; what are we supposed to seem like? And by whom?
No, 850MB might not have been standard, but it was certainly not unusual at the time of Win95. My first PC came with a 850MB HD in late 1995. (For reference, I paid 20'000SEK for that computer, or $2500-$3000)I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.
Actually, 850 MB would have been a huge drive back in Win95's day. Try more like 300 MB. That's what my wife's spiffy new Win95 computer came with, back in the day. You might have been able to get, say, 400 or 450 if you were willing to spend a lot more money, but 850 doesn't seem likely.
I think it very likely indeed that AIs, like NIs, are grown, not manufactured.I remember reading up on something similar a little while back, and it does make a kind of sense. Teach (that is to say program) some basic information, and let them learn the rest.
The fact that she can a) Recognise a "good guy" when she sees one, b) Values that and c) Modifies her behaviour accordingly means that maybe it's working. There's a good base to work from.Now May is learning a valuable lesson. [idealism] Treat people right, and you'll be treated right in return. [/idealism]
No matter whether you're NI or AI.
Layman's question here: Would that not (be one of the things that) differentiate an AI from an ordinary program or programmable machine?I think it very likely indeed that AIs, like NIs, are grown, not manufactured.I remember reading up on something similar a little while back, and it does make a kind of sense. Teach (that is to say program) some basic information, and let them learn the rest.
No, 850MB might not have been standard, but it was certainly not unusual at the time of Win95. My first PC came with a 850MB HD in late 1995. (For reference, I paid 20'000SEK for that computer, or $2500-$3000)
Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'
I'm not sure they were "created" in the QCverse. I think they were more of an accident, although there's no canon that I recall.
I think AIs would end up having an extremely human like world view, because we created them with the understanding that they would interact with humans. Why would we create something intelligent, but it has a view of the world that is totally alien to us. Not only is it something that would make day to day interactions with them harder, but it could prove to be dangerous.Like Momo explained, AIs have subroutines to deal with communication on a human level. Whenever a human talks to an AI, they're not talking to the whole AI, just the chatbot program. Presumably, there are a great number of parallel processes dealing with matters that are inconceivable to a human.
The only way I could see anything radically different emerging would be from AIs that have been isolated from humanity for quite a while.
IOW, May probably wouldn't be too thrilled about getting shunted into an AnthroPC body - if I'm reading that right. To go from a large AI processing setup down to a contained setting - though it would be preferable to her current setup - might still be seen as a "step down" for her.On the contrary. An AnthroPC body would mean a method of interaction with the physical world. Right now her only means of mobility and perception is Dale and his Glasses. So unless the Glasses have tiny little motors that let them walk on their prongs...
I think calling May a sociopath seems a bit extreme.I was thinking of her reference to "sociopathic tendencies" here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2503).
Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'
No, 850MB might not have been standard, but it was certainly not unusual at the time of Win95. My first PC came with a 850MB HD in late 1995. (For reference, I paid 20'000SEK for that computer, or $2500-$3000)I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.
The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.
Actually, 850 MB would have been a huge drive back in Win95's day. Try more like 300 MB. That's what my wife's spiffy new Win95 computer came with, back in the day. You might have been able to get, say, 400 or 450 if you were willing to spend a lot more money, but 850 doesn't seem likely.
Obviously, I think that Dale's part of the "modeling good behaviour" part. With a puppy, the usual options are to have a person with them most of the time (and crating when they're alone), and putting them with a mature dog that models good behaviour. Dale's a combination of these two, a companion who can "turn her off" (crate her) when he can't watch her, and a model for proper human behaviour.
I wonder how he was chosen... I don't think the proposed "beta testers" for something like this should be randomly picked!
Maybe I'm considering the AIs in the QCverse to be more "human" than they are, but that's something only Jeph could detail. I also don't really think that new AIs are "created" by humans. Once the first AI was brought to life I think they could reproduce (if they have the hardware)Now I want to see an inbred AI...
Well, MAYbe you have.Maybe I'm considering the AIs in the QCverse to be more "human" than they are, but that's something only Jeph could detail. I also don't really think that new AIs are "created" by humans. Once the first AI was brought to life I think they could reproduce (if they have the hardware)Now I want to see an inbred AI...
The NSA WISHES they could get access to everything Google has on all of us.
Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'
Maybe you just need to re-evaluate your gender constructs.
... There's something about the AI creation process in this world that is not strictly utilitarian, and seems to be a copying of the human psyche, warts and all.
Considering that Jeph has been clearly willing to address notions of identity politics in his comics, and that each character's psychology seems based on a fairly rich back story, this makes me wonder what he plans to do with May and where she comes from.
Is it just me or does May really not seem female.:psyduck: I don't know; what are we supposed to seem like? And by whom?
Finding out what Jeph plans to do with May and where she comes from is a problem that solves itself, as long as Jeph continues to produce the comic. I counsel patience.
So far, the comic has hewn pretty close to my gender constructs. Thus, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to play "one of these things is not like the other" where the AIs are concerned.
If someone wanted to be transgender would you advise them to 'just re-evaluate their gender constructs?'
I ask this because the acceptance of trans-sexuality/body dysmorphic disorder/whatever as something "real" rather than an arbitrary or learned choice seems to indicate a pretty deep-seated human connection with a certain gender that precedes any constructs society might impose.
People tried doing random gender reassignment on hermaphrodites a few decades ago, based on the notion that gender identification was arbitrary. The results are currently believed to have been pretty disastrous. This suggests that whatever gender is, it is more than just a social construct. As offensive or threatening as that notion may be to some people.
What if Dickmouth Stinkface is the victim of a warden like that? What if she's set to male in software but maliciously assigned to a humiliating female avatar?
I'm saying she doesn't express herself in the manner females I've known do.Ah, I see. In that case, it is just you.
I'm saying she doesn't express herself in the manner females I've known do.Ah, I see. In that case, it is just you.
You have a model in your head of what women are supposed to be like, and if someone behaves in a way that doesn't fit your model, you question whether they are female, rather than questioning your model. That is not uncommon, but it is not good either.
[/quote]So far, the comic has hewn pretty close to my gender constructs. Thus, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to play "one of these things is not like the other" where the AIs are concerned.
The things you're pointing your finger at stem from how you view humans, not how you view AIs. For the record AIs aren't "less than", they're their own characters and warrant the same amount of respect one would give to any human on the cast.
Also finger-pointing about "adequate femininity" isn't a game.
First and foremost "Hermaphrodite" is not an appropriate thing to call an intersex person at all. Nor is it "trans sexuality", as it isn't a sexual orientation. Also it's Gender Dysphoria.
such as doubting if a person can "really be" their gender given certain behaviors.
The key question is how Dickmouth Stinkface's actions compare with those of other sociopathic female inmates.
An unpleasant idea comes to mind, though. There's a sadistic American official who forces male prisoners to wear pink underwear. What if Dickmouth Stinkface is the victim of a warden like that? What if she's set to male in software but maliciously assigned to a humiliating female avatar?
For the record. I know women who make May seem like a goddamn fairy tale princess. They are most assuredly female, and can be feminine... sorta... rarely. But it happens. They certainly aren't dudes though.
Quotesuch as doubting if a person can "really be" their gender given certain behaviors.I assume you're not quoting me, here.
Is it just me or does May really not seem female.Your earlier posting certainly expressed doubt about May's femaleness based on her behaviour.
He also once explained that anthropc gender is merely defined by the intake or output of packets to them, but maybe that's not so canon?
Do AI’s have any inherent concept of gender, or does that just get attributed to them by human society when they choose their chassis/holo-manifestation/whatever?
I did a little bit of exposition about this WAYYYYY back in the day with Pintsize and IIRC it still makes sense. Basically they’re free to choose a gender if they feel like it. They are also free to be a purple robot spider if they feel like it.
French toast is out.In that it can't be made in a toaster or that it's not fun? The former is true, but if you mean the latter, I must disagree.
I'm saying she doesn't express herself in the manner females I've known do.Ah, I see. In that case, it is just you.
You have a model in your head of what women are supposed to be like, and if someone behaves in a way that doesn't fit your model, you question whether they are female, rather than questioning your model. That is not uncommon, but it is not good either.
"you question whether they are female, rather than questioning your model"
lesson(s) i've learned on the topic from this forum
-its harder than you'd think to treat everyone pretty much exactly the same. do it anyways
-when you're not 112% sure what to say, use generic pronouns
-people take this shit seriously.
Quotesuch as doubting if a person can "really be" their gender given certain behaviors.I assume you're not quoting me, here.Is it just me or does May really not seem female.Your earlier posting certainly expressed doubt about May's femaleness based on her behaviour.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that her sociopathic tendencies and her apparent violations of gender norms were at all related, unless I missed something.
I never claimed that the AIs were 'less than' anything.
They're designed as some kind of agents, but I don't totally grasp the deeper purpose (if there even is one) behind their agency. Was there a huge push for jumping the uncanny valley by adding really odd personality idiosyncrasies? Maybe I'm just expecting too much from a webcomic. But I don't think I'm totally off the deep end.
Uhh. Please reread where I already clarified that my statements weren't normative. So the use of 'adequate' isn't really relevant. Or are you implying that the notions of masculinity and feminity themselves should be taboo? May herself seems to clearly believe she's somehow inappropriately gendered.
If we were critiquing a story about the Victorian era and a character wore pants for casual activities, it would be completely in line to note how unusual/anachronistic that was and ask what the author was saying about the character.
Sure. Intersex is more PC.
Socially, even today, it's not necessarily adaptive to treat people "exactly the same" in all cultures and all situations. People are individuals and their individuality is frequently informed by their sex. Male behavior is not statistically identical to female behavior, for whatever reason. Look at prison populations and arrest rates for an example of that. I don't think it holds up as a predictive model in day to day life.
He was comparing her to other inmates, I don't think he was saying that made her "less female".
If 1 and 2 are true, it seems fair to question what is causing the outlier.You questioned May's femininity because it didn't fit your model, instead of questioning whether your model of femininity is accurate. Why is this important? Because this way of thinking lies at the heart of sexism.
I am good at maths. From time to time, when I demonstrate this, I get patronising sexist jokes about having a "boy brain" (because "girls suck at maths, amirite?"). The tone of such jokes is often patronisingly positive, as if I should be grateful for being "upgraded" to the status of an honorary man. I am not a boy, so I can't have a boy-brain. I am a woman, so nothing I do can be unfeminine. Some of the things I do might not fit some stereotyped, sexist models of femininity, but that reflects on the models, and the people who adopt them, not on me.
I never claimed that the AIs were 'less than' anything.
You literally said "where the AIs are concerned" as if something inherently sexist and inappropriate was suddenly fine just because these people aren't human.
Also QC isn't in friggin' Victorian England
"and the very fact that you would consider her being, in your eyes, "male-like"
It's also worth noting that talking about how "PC" something is.. is generally a huge red flag going up.
Since when do you have an urgent need for a predictive model on whether some woman is "really a guy", then?
You are clearly just making excuses for cisnormative sexism.
"because people in your group tend towards X, it is correct to assume you are also X
It is more or less identical to saying that because in the U.S. black people are disproportionately put in prison that you're therefore justified in treating all people of that group as criminals.
Even if you believe that it's inevitable that women will statistically end up different in such ways, then that still doesn't at all account for the fact that 100% of female characters wouldn't be like May as things stand. This betrays that fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. If you really understood that then there's no reason for her to be out of place at all, even when thinking of women in such a way. But no, even when talking about "statistics" you none-the-less revert back to "None of the women I know".
If 1 and 2 are true, it seems fair to question what is causing the outlier.You questioned May's femininity because it didn't fit your model, instead of questioning whether your model of femininity is accurate.
Why is this important? Because this way of thinking lies at the heart of sexism.
I am good at maths. From time to time, when I demonstrate this, I get patronising sexist jokes about having a "boy brain" (because "girls suck at maths, amirite?"). The tone of such jokes is often patronisingly positive, as if I should be grateful for being "upgraded" to the status of an honorary man. I am not a boy, so I can't have a boy-brain. I am a woman, so nothing I do can be unfeminine. Some of the things I do might not fit some stereotyped, sexist models of femininity, but that reflects on the models, and the people who adopt them, not on me.
I am a woman, so nothing I do can be unfeminine.
2. The notion of trans-sexuality itself asserts that sex is relevant to either cultural interactions or personal identity. Otherwise, why would someone undergo surgery to become transsexual in spite of the associated stigma?You really, really need to read this thread (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.0.html).
At what point during toasting does the product go from heated bread, to light, brown, and burnt toast?
There's an art of knowing when,
Never try to guess.
Toast until it smokes and then,
Twenty seconds less.
2. The notion of trans-sexuality itself asserts that sex is relevant to either cultural interactions or personal identity. Otherwise, why would someone undergo surgery to become transsexual in spite of the associated stigma?You really, really need to read this thread (http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28457.0.html).
The key point I would call to your attention is that people don't "become" transsexual.
Start from the beginning, read as much as you can, but please don't talk about the matter until you do. There's really no way we could answer your question better than that thread could. For that matter, the thread will let you know how misguided the question itself is.
The notion of trans-sexuality itself asserts that sex is relevant to either cultural interactions or personal identity. Otherwise, why would someone undergo surgery to become transsexual in spite of the associated stigma?
Fairly put. I misspoke. I should have said something along the lines of "Why would someone undergo gender reassignment surgery."
I am good at maths. From time to time, when I demonstrate this, I get patronising sexist jokes about having a "boy brain" (because "girls suck at maths, amirite?"). The tone of such jokes is often patronisingly positive, as if I should be grateful for being "upgraded" to the status of an honorary man. I am not a boy, so I can't have a boy-brain. I am a woman, so nothing I do can be unfeminine. Some of the things I do might not fit some stereotyped, sexist models of femininity, but that reflects on the models, and the people who adopt them, not on me.
"Cis folks - If you think "passing" is the highest compliment, if you think "I would have never known" are words of praise, I have news."
Yeah, it can be pretty sick how non-marginalized people think of others.
But from a strictly theoretical standpoint I truly don't see why one (or a constellation) of your abilities couldn't possibly be unusual for women but common for men.Even if that were true, it would still not make me a man, or reflect on my femininity except in other people's heads, and it certainly would not justify saying "Is it just me, or does Akima really not seem female?". That is the attitude of the "boy-brain" jokers. Regardless of disclaimers, there really isn't a good, or even neutral, way to tell any woman that she doesn't "seem female" based on anything about her, and I'm at a bit of a loss to understand any good reason for doing so.
Did people hear wiserd as meaning "She's so unladylike she can't be a REAL woman"?Something along those lines, certainly. I am not sure what other conclusion I might have been expected to draw. As I have pointed out above, it is no different from saying "Akima is so good at maths, she can't be a REAL woman".
1) We are not a damn "notion", nor are we a political statement on gender roles. Stop treating us as such.
" It isn't something to be ashamed of.
Saying I don't look "trans" is not a compliment.
But from a strictly theoretical standpoint I truly don't see why one (or a constellation) of your abilities couldn't possibly be unusual for women but common for men.Even if that were true, it would still not make me a man, or reflect on my femininity except in other people's heads, and it certainly would not justify saying "Is it just me, or does Akima really not seem female?". That is the attitude of the "boy-brain" jokers. Regardless of disclaimers, there really isn't a good, or even neutral, way to tell any woman that she doesn't "seem female" based on anything about her, and I'm at a bit of a loss to understand any good reason for doing so.
I would argue that if a woman doesn't fit some model of "what women are", it reflects on the model, not on the woman.
You appeal to the "predictive power" of your model, but I would ask why anyone needs a predictive model of what men and women are "really like" in any context other than biological or medical.
Why do the "boy-brain" jokers need to predict my mathematical ability based on my sex?
Why mention my sex at all, or deny my femaleness, when it is their model, and not I, that proved inadequate? Unless they are Eve-baiting sexist douchebags, that is.
Did people hear wiserd as meaning "She's so unladylike she can't be a REAL woman"?Something along those lines, certainly. I am not sure what other conclusion I might have been expected to draw. As I have pointed out above, it is no different from saying "Akima is so good at maths, she can't be a REAL woman".
That is the attitude of the "boy-brain" jokers.
Every publicly recognizable choice has social significance.
Gender identity ( or lack thereof ) involves intrapersonal and interpersonal interactions. (i.e. internal thoughts + doing stuff with other people.) I could have found a better term, but I've really spent far too much time on forums today, and haven't been proofreading what I write. (Obviously?) I can polish writing till it shines, but not on the fly.
I'm going to assume that a lot of what you've written isn't a response to me, because it doesn't seem related to what I've written. If it's just explaining your situation or venting, that's cool. But I want to correct any misunderstandings.
/.../
I did not suggest trans-sexuality was something to be ashamed of. Can I assume you agree?
/.../
Can we at least agree that this isn't a response to anything I've written? I'm not sure if you're venting a feeling on something unrelated to my post (all good if so) or if you've completely misunderstood what I've said and I need to correct the misinterpretation.
I simply noted that people payed a high price in one way or another for expressing trans-identities. That's an expensive signal indicating that something is very important to them. You seem to agree... I think...
Since when do you have an urgent need for a predictive model on whether some woman is "really a guy", then?
You are clearly just making excuses for cisnormative sexism. Statistical differences between particular genders are utterly irrelevant as to whether or not you're justified in that kind of shitty gender-policing behaviour. Having your preexisting biases "informed" by people's gender and that "because people in your group tend towards X, it is correct to assume you are also X". It is more or less identical to saying that because in the U.S. black people are disproportionately put in prison that you're therefore justified in treating all people of that group as criminals. That clearly isn't true.
Even if you believe that it's inevitable that women will statistically end up different in such ways, then that still doesn't at all account for the fact that 100% of female characters wouldn't be like May as things stand. This betrays that fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. If you really understood that then there's no reason for her to be out of place at all, even when thinking of women in such a way. But no, even when talking about "statistics" you none-the-less revert back to "None of the women I know".
I see no difference in what you're doing with May's personality traits to sniggering behind my back about whether I "really seem like a girl" or not. It isn't a game.
I see no difference in what you're doing with May's personality traits to sniggering behind my back about whether I "really seem like a girl" or not. It isn't a game.
But why isn't it possible for a particular behavior to be unusual for a woman but usual for a man? Why isn't it possible for the long tail of one bell curve to correspond to the median of another?A woman who is on the "long tail of one bell curve" does not cease to be a woman; she is simply an exceptional woman. A model that cannot accommodate exceptional women is a bad model, and certainly does not justify questioning their status as women.
I am not promoting normative values.I think you are, and pretty explicitly too, where you are referring to bell-curves, and medians and long tails as relevant to judgements of women's behaviour, interests, talents and so on. You've even written "My point, simply put, is; "behavior which violates social norms is likely to be significant."" I really don't think you can reference social norms as important or decisive, especially using loaded terms like "violates" to describe departures from those norms, without promoting normative values.
Unless I've misread what you've written or you've left things out it doesn't seem like they were calling you "inadequate" in any way.They explain away my competence by declaring that I must have a "boy-brain", rather than accepting that it is their sexist attitude, their apparent expectation of my poor performance, that is at fault. Their belief that a woman is inadequate is revealed by the fact that they "upgrade" me to an honorary man to explain to themselves how I managed to exceed their low expectations. It is very telling too, that they seem to expect me to regard this "upgrade" as a compliment, rather than the patronising insult that it actually is. Their behaviour is comparable to a group of white engineers telling a black engineer who had just solved a tricky problem that he had a "white brain", and expecting him to be complimented.
A woman who is on the "long tail of one bell curve" does not cease to be a woman; she is simply an exceptional woman. A model that cannot accommodate exceptional women is a bad model, and certainly does not justify questioning their status as women.
I am not promoting normative values.I think you are, and pretty explicitly too, where you are referring to bell-curves, and medians and long tails as relevant to judgements of women's behaviour, interests, talents and so on. You've even written "My point, simply put, is; "behavior which violates social norms is likely to be significant."" I really don't think you can reference social norms as important or decisive, especially using loaded terms like "violates" to describe departures from those norms, without promoting normative values.
Unless I've misread what you've written or you've left things out it doesn't seem like they were calling you "inadequate" in any way.They explain away my competence by declaring that I must have a "boy-brain", rather than accepting that it is their sexist attitude, their apparent expectation of my poor performance, that is at fault. Their belief that a woman is inadequate is revealed by the fact that they "upgrade" me to an honorary man to explain to themselves how I managed to exceed their low expectations. It is very telling too, that they seem to expect me to regard this "upgrade" as a compliment, rather than the patronising insult that it actually is. Their behavior is comparable to a group of white engineers telling a black engineer who had just solved a tricky problem that he had a "white brain", and expecting him to be complimented.
I object to any social paradigm where male and female differences and their basis cannot be courteously discussed. Because it basically amounts to someone saying "well, these topics, we just aren't allowed to THINK about..."
Reasoning from bell curves is not a good tool for overanalyzing a comic, since entertainment value requires making new characters different from the existing ones.
A person who notes that men have, on average, more muscle mass than women is inevitably asserting that all men SHOULD have more muscle mass?
This explains why you find what they said offensive. It does not explain why you believed they were calling you "inadequate." They did not explain away your competence. They clearly recognized that you were competent. You've said that a model should accommodate exceptional results. But I'm skeptical that you would have been much more approving of their comments if they had called you "exceptional" and then added "for a woman." I could be wrong, but I suspect that it is their belief that men are (biologically) better, on average, at some particular task than women, on average, that offends you. If there's some phrasing of this belief that you would find palatable, feel free to put it forward.
But if the result of this discussion is that I'm supposed to believe that women and men within a given culture are identical in every regard, irrespective of any evidence, then I'm simply not buying in. Call me whatever names you want to associate me with your chosen outgroup. /.../
I object to any social paradigm where male and female differences and their basis cannot be courteously discussed. Because it basically amounts to someone saying "well, these topics, we just aren't allowed to THINK about..."
associated with male primary and secondary sexual characteristics.
It may not be easy to do, I admit, and it's certainly not easy to umpire!
What is a good tool for over analyzing a comic? Because apparently that's what I do. :-pReasoning from bell curves is not a good tool for overanalyzing a comic, since entertainment value requires making new characters different from the existing ones.Indeed - one of the first things to grasp in statistics is that it is all about populations, and never about individuals (this is where I just can't get along with Asimov's Foundation series in the end).
It may not be easy to do, I admit, and it's certainly not easy to umpire!
Y'know, come to think of it.. Is it just me or does Marten really not seem male?
Thus if we want to "seem female", then we should adhere to your biased personal experience of "How women are".
The issue lies in reducing her as a person with their sexist nonsense and how her being a woman is supposedly some "handicap", because she was supposed to be dumb.
just as how it isn't a compliment to say "you're passable [as cisgender]" as a synonym for being pretty.
These things only betray what oppressive, normative attitudes the person already holds which do not take into account that "trans =/= ugly" or "woman =/= stupid".
You said a character "doesn't seem female" and went on to talk about how none of the women you know behave like that, therefore it is nonsensical for there to be a woman who does.
That it warrants extra scrutiny for falling outside of your norms (but apparently you're not being normative about it)
and statistical correlations are not determinants.
And stop trying to play the "Those damn marginalized people are trying to censor my opinions and free speech AND EVEN MY VERY THOUGHTS :cry: " card.
People don't have an unalienable right to be liked.
associated with male primary and secondary sexual characteristics.
If one presupposes that such traits belong in such categories in the first place. Which I do not. That's just more commonly the case for most of the population. If for instance a trans woman who is comfortable with her genitalia doesn't have genital reassignment surgery... then those are her genitals, consistent with her brain-mapping as a woman, not male ones.
It may not be easy to do, I admit, and it's certainly not easy to umpire!
Maybe all sides could agree to call the game on account of darkness.
Start from the beginning, read as much as you can, but please don't talk about the matter until you do. There's really no way we could answer your question better than that thread could. For that matter, the thread will let you know how misguided the question itself is.
I read 2 pages. Nothing was particularly new and the text wasn't at all information dense. I saw the notion of strong vs. weak associations with gender identity brought up a few times, but never really brought to much of a conclusion except that 'people are different.' Okay, sure. But that says nothing about average tendencies. If there's something specific you want me to see, please post the specific text and I'll happily read it. In the meantime, I'm going to go back to having as much of an opinion as anyone else on this forum. And if that's unreasonable somehow, by all means, feel free to explain why. "Don't have an opinion till you've read the phone book" isn't something most folks would go for.
Best
But you really need to shake yourself free of the notion that people are abusing your language usage, especially since you've had to apologize for "misspeaking" so often! The speech isn't the problem - your clarifications have drawn the same reactions as the originals - the problem is the thinking behind the speech.
Open your mind just a little further, and the light might have a chance to shine in.
I stand behind my thinking till someone gives a coherent example of something better.
If I told you to "open your mind just a little further and the light might have a chance to shine in" how would you receive that admonition?
(moderator)I agree. And wiserd, you say that you don't have time to read the thread, which would be the equivalent of doing basic research on the topic. That's fine. But you need to understand that you don't understand the issue. I'm going to lock this thread, as there really doesn't seem to be any resolution in sight here. If you do ever get the time, though, I would encourage you to check out that thread, bit by bit. It's not complete (nothing really is, I suppose), but every little bit of knowledge breeds a little bit more understanding.
This is going in circles and not visibly promoting understanding.
(/moderator)
there are a lot of men with low muscle mass.
Please note that I never said anything about what someone "wanted to seem." That is a whole new kettle of worms (Bigger than a can. And even worse, we're out of fish) that you are opening, not me.
Quotejust as how it isn't a compliment to say "you're passable [as cisgender]" as a synonym for being pretty.I assume you mean because it's damning with faint praise. Kindof like "you won't completely bomb the test."
QuoteYou said a character "doesn't seem female" and went on to talk about how none of the women you know behave like that, therefore it is nonsensical for there to be a woman who does.Where are you getting the " therefore it is nonsensical for there to be a woman who does." Please quote the line.
Hint: I didn't say that. The first part, sure. The second part? No, you're making that up.
QuoteThat it warrants extra scrutiny for falling outside of your norms (but apparently you're not being normative about it)Yes. Put in more mundane terms; unusual is not the same as bad. Why is this so confusing? Do you associate conformity with being good?
Quoteand statistical correlations are not determinants.Never once said they were. Quite the opposite. Multiple times. Who are you arguing with?
If you tell me one more time that my beliefs are a game, I will tell you that your beliefs are a game. I suspect you will take it much worse than I have. Consider treating others as you would like to be treated. Being "marginalized" does not excuse you from that.
If you want to tell me that you're okay with whatever I say and whatever I think, so long as it's based on evidence and some measure of compassion, by all means say that.
What I object to is an argument of the form "If you believe X then we will not like you, so you should not believe x." People try that sometimes. It doesn't work so well with me.
Yes, it's a model that works for most of the population. And when it's not the case, there's usually a reason for it. Someone with normal testosterone but stereotypically feminine features may be androgen insensitive. So we start with a typical case and then ask why a particular subject diverges from it. And the result is a working mental model.
(Method locked it like the same second I was pressing Post, but he's doing me the courtesy of not deleting all I wrote. I'd prefer it if it wasn't locked, but split into Discuss or something, since I'd hardly intend on silencing any responses or such, wiserd. Even if I'm being a snidey-butt about some things in it. :laugh: )