THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: stammgm on 06 May 2005, 22:19
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There seem to be a lot of bands who are actually decent but unknown, then get insanely popular on the basis of a semi-shitty song, and then all of a sudden it's cool to hate them, first in their original fanbase, and then all over...
Example (and I know I'll get crucified for this): the White Stripes. Great band, then came 7 Nation Army....then everyone loved that song for some reason, and then all of a sudden it's cool to bash them
case in point...a movie review of Freaky Friday in the Toledo Blade praised that damn movie for 'having a self-aware pop culture sensibility' or some such shit for two of the characters talking about bands that they liked (most of which the actors had probably never listened to) and bashing the White Stripes (who the reviewer had never listened to), and I realized that it truly had become universally acceptable to hate on them
Anyway, wondering if anyone would like to share a similar experience
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Hating the White Stripes has always been cool.
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two of the characters talking about bands that they liked (most of which the actors had probably never listened to) and bashing the White Stripes (who the reviewer had never listened to)
May I ask what your evidence is for these accusations?
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Well, I said probably for the actors, mostly on the basis that I think that Lindsay Lohan is a dipshit and also because the music she was playing in that movie had nothing to do with the Pixies or the Yeah Yeah Yeahs.
For the reviewer (Chris borelli), it's because he said he hadn't listened to them or the White Stripes
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Okay.
In Australia it's pretty much expected that once any band/actor/general celebrity gets too famous and too succesful, there's going to be a backlash against them. It's called the Tall Poppy Syndrome (i.e.: any poppy that grows taller than the rest of the crop is going to get cut down to size). It's a big part of the culture here, for better or for worse.
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Hating Mortiis.
always has been cool, always will be.
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And of course, it goes to say that all that nu-metal, pop-punk etc. poop has always been cool to hate, and even cooler to like in an ironic or post-ironic manner.
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Post-ironic. rofl.
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Don't rofl my terminology, or I'll get post-polite on your ass, whitey*.
*Insert other colour/semi-derogative archaic term of stigmatising address if appropriate.
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Well duh. It's just something you say to sound clever. Like 'Indubitably' and 'perspicacity'.
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Only two synonyms? I'm losing my perspicacity!
I must say that it seems awfully cool to hate Norma Jean right now. Rather annoying, really.
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The way I understand it is that Norma Jean is some second rate Botch rip-off (on their new album that is).
I haven't heard the whole thing myself, so I won't pass judgement on it (yet), but if it's true then I can understand the hate...Not because I don't like Botch, I love Botch, but the whole rip-off thing.
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Well that and you can play an entire song of there's without moving your goddamned left hand ONCE.
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We can't forget how cool it is to hate Good Charlotte *rolls eyes* People who think Mest is cool hate GC, how hypocritical is that? I'm not saying Good Charlotte is a particularly good or anything, but it's interesting that of all the pop-punk bands out there they are the ones that everyone hates... and if you like them then you are instantly flamed and labeled as a poser.
Hey, I'll gladly admit that they used to be my favorite band, and I'll still listen to their old stuff on occassion. It's better than being a hypocrite that listens to pop-punk but claims to hate Good Charlotte just to sound cool.
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You liked Good Charlotte!?
haha.
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maybe I should have distinguished between bands it's cool to hate and bands it's popular to hate
I mean, it's cool to hate a band that really sucks, like Good Charlotte (although their fan base is way more annoying than their actual music), but other bands really haven't gone downhill since getting popular, they just fall out of favor, so what's popular isn't necessarily cool, if you get my drift
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The White Stripes just aren't that good. Jack can lay down some decent stuff, but Meg's uninspired heavy handed drumming is pretty awful.
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that I'll give you...they were just one example anyway of popularity destroying a band's rep when their music hasn't changed
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Apparently you've all missed my point, but that's alright I expected that...
What about Bright Eyes? Or does he suck too much to be included in this conversation as well.
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What point? It wouldn't be impossible to like Pop-Punk and hate GC. As for being a wannabe/poser, well if you claim to like Punk then say you like bands like GC, it's true. But if you say you like Pop-Punk...well, not really being a poser is it, just stupid.
Hating Bright Eyes is just intelligent.
Oh, and ...
You liked Good Charlotte!?
haha.
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pop-punk has always been cool to hate... post-ironic manner.
Pop-punk was a decent genre until 2000 when it got really whiny.
I think I've reached post-ironic. Seriously.
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Hating bands because it's cool to hate them is the same as hating bands because it's cool to like them, i.e. it's stupid.
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What point? It wouldn't be impossible to like Pop-Punk and hate GC.
Robbo: You're winner.
But if you say you like Pop-Punk...well, not really being a poser is it, just stupid.
Can we just say "I don't like ________"? I'm not much of a pop-punk fan anymore, so I really don't care how much you slam the genre (which, by the way, always uses the same goddamn four chords), but questioning the intelligence of people whose favourite genres are different than yours, while funny the first few times, just kinda gets grating after a while.
However, you're still winner.
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You're only saying that to be cool!
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Pop-punk was a decent genre until 2000 when it got really whiny.
no..
no it wasn't..
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I'm guessing you're only saying that because you're hardcore into metal, so I'm not going to take it personally.
I have plenty of Pop-Punk that I enjoy that is neither bad nor whiny.
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Hating bands because it's cool to hate them is the same as hating bands because it's cool to like them, i.e. it's stupid.
+100
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I'm guessing you're only saying that because you're hardcore into metal, so I'm not going to take it personally.
What? So you're saying we dont like Pop-Punk because Metal tells us to? When that statement could come from a Jazz fan, a Classical fan, a Rock fan..anything like that.
It's the fact it completely goes against all the musical ideas that come with Metal that bring out that statement. The Pop part does sort of say that.
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isn't there pop-metal bands, I think there are...
I can't think of a band per se that is cool to hate, maybe Taking Back Sunday, though I just tend to ignore them, I mean who cares life's too short and you're already dying.
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Pop-Metal just doesn't make any sense. There are Popular Metal band, there are Metal bands that have gone Pop. But Pop-Metal?
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The way I understand it is that Norma Jean is some second rate Botch rip-off (on their new album that is).
I haven't heard the whole thing myself, so I won't pass judgement on it (yet), but if it's true then I can understand the hate...Not because I don't like Botch, I love Botch, but the whole rip-off thing.
There's a difference between influence and rip-off. Personally, I hear nothing on their new album that blatantly rips off Botch, unless you consider odd time signatures and dissonance qualities that make a band a Botch rip-off, in which case, there are a lot of bands that should be getting the same shit, yet aren't. Hell, bands like Into the Moat are far more blatant Dillinger Escape Plan rip-offs, yet they get mostly positive reviews.
In 'O God, the Aftermath's case, however, most negative reviews have consisted almost verbatim of "I HATE THIS BAND 'COS THEY SUCK AND SUCK AND ARE BOTCH RIP-OFFS END OF STORY".
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What? So you're saying we dont like Pop-Punk because Metal tells us to?
I'm saying that he doesn't like pop-punk for the very reasons he likes metal. Pop-Punk is kind of the at the opposite spectrum. It's sacchrine simple silly songs that strive to be the weight of air. It's not aggro, it's not atmospheric, it's not heavy, and it's not technical. Usually people like metal for some combination of the above. It's a stupid genre, but I find it fun to listen to.
He's a big metalhead though. Usually any sort of (insert genre here) fan will dismiss punk-pop for one of the reasons above as well.
I just wasn't too enamoured with his two word dismissel. I'm sure there are lots of people on this board who dislike pop-punk, but at least point something you don't like about it out rather then just arbitarily dismissing it.
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So basically what I said. It goes against all the musical values at go with Metal.
If it wasn't trolling, I would make a worse and more hateful dismissing of the genre. As I certainly dont see how pre 2000 stuff is any less horrible.
But back on topic. All White/Unblack Metal. The idea is just stupid and most of the bands that make it are a huge pile of crap. So much so that Anal Gore Terror wrote the song "Holy Terror" about the genre.
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This thread seems to have veered somewhat off-topic: it's not meant to be a place to slag out musical styles you hate, it's a place to discuss the phenomenon of a musical style and/or band suddenly becoming a popular hate-object for wannabe hipsters and scenesters. Go back to stammgm's original post and start all over again.
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But back on topic. All White/Unblack Metal. The idea is just stupid and most of the bands that make it are a huge pile of crap.
I cannot express into words how much I hate "unblack" metal.
It's such bullshit. Fucking Christians trying to get their grubby little fingers into EVERYTHING.
My question is, how can someone start an "unblack" metal band built on the same musical ideas and inspirations of bands whose main theme or ideology is anti Judeo-Christian?
Damn you ignorant people, go back to your "Worship Together" albums.
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Guess the title needs to add "...by wannabe hipsters and scenesters". That's probably what is throwing people off. *shrugs*
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The way I understand it is that Norma Jean is some second rate Botch rip-off (on their new album that is).
I haven't heard the whole thing myself, so I won't pass judgement on it (yet), but if it's true then I can understand the hate...Not because I don't like Botch, I love Botch, but the whole rip-off thing.
There's a difference between influence and rip-off. Personally, I hear nothing on their new album that blatantly rips off Botch, unless you consider odd time signatures and dissonance qualities that make a band a Botch rip-off, in which case, there are a lot of bands that should be getting the same shit, yet aren't. Hell, bands like Into the Moat are far more blatant Dillinger Escape Plan rip-offs, yet they get mostly positive reviews.
In 'O God, the Aftermath's case, however, most negative reviews have consisted almost verbatim of "I HATE THIS BAND 'COS THEY SUCK AND SUCK AND ARE BOTCH RIP-OFFS END OF STORY".
Like I said, I haven't listened to the album much yet. I seriously doubt that they are ripping off Botch, it's probably like you said, they were just heavily influenced by them on this album. Which isn't a bad thing. I remember seeing on someone's soulseek file list that they had labeled it "O' God The Botch Rip-Off". I kind of chuckled at it. I'll give it a listen tonight and see what I think.
Edit: Upon listening to the album, I can really see where the Botch comparisons are coming from. None of the songs really connected for me. Although that "Disconnecktie" song really got on my nerves. I think I'll stick to my Botch and Breather Resist.
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Bands it's cool to hate...
My Chemical Romance, anyone?
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Bands it's cool to hate...
My Chemical Romance, anyone?
I indubitably concur.
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The most uncool band I enjoy is Dave Matthews Band. I think that Before These Crowded Streets and Under The Table And Dreaming are great albums.
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So basically what I said. It goes against all the musical values at go with Metal.
As I certainly dont see how pre 2000 stuff is any less horrible.
Yes, if that's what you ment.
It's not as whiny. This was before bands of the genre started trying to be emo. Granted you're never going to agree with me about the genre, but I've found stuff I like in it. Nothing recently, but in the past I have.
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I'M NOOOOOOORRRRT HOOOOOOO-KHEY
I'M NOT HO-KHEY~EY~EY~EY~EY
Nice, that's the best phonetic representaion of that horrible song I've seen. It always comes on in the college cafeteria and drives me utterly crazy.
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Like I said, I haven't listened to the album much yet. I seriously doubt that they are ripping off Botch, it's probably like you said, they were just heavily influenced by them on this album. Which isn't a bad thing. I remember seeing on someone's soulseek file list that they had labeled it "O' God The Botch Rip-Off". I kind of chuckled at it. I'll give it a listen tonight and see what I think.
Edit: Upon listening to the album, I can really see where the Botch comparisons are coming from. None of the songs really connected for me. Although that "Disconnecktie" song really got on my nerves. I think I'll stick to my Botch and Breather Resist.
Yes, I too can see where the Botch influence is coming from.
Either way, I love the album (it might take a listen or two for it to grow on someone), and I particularly love 'Disconnecktie'. It's like 'Pretty Soon, I Don't Know What, But Something is Going To Happen' all over again, only better.
And Breather Resist are a great band, although I can never actually remember any of their songs.
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It seems very hip to hate The Bravery. Take a look at Stylus' review of their album. Also take a look at Pitchfork's review of their album.
OH NOES THEY LIKE THE EIGHTIES
OSTRACIZE'D
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Alright, alright, for once I'm going to keep my big mouth shut and just slink away from this topic before I get hated on some more ;)
*restrained rant causes head to explode* Now look what you've done :\
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Hey, you're point got disproved...so what? No need to go all emo over it. I dont think anyone cares. Not like it changes anyone's view of you or anything.
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Okay - so if that's all finished can we actually, like, get back on topic now or something?
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We are back on topic thanks to Johnny C. Oh, and Killswitch Engage.
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The problem is, you can never seperate those who hate bands like Norma Jean for being popular from those who genuinely think they're a disgrace to the word 'metal'. Like me :) You can't even use bands suddenly getting big as a barometer, since there will be people who genuinely liked the early music but thought the material that made them big was terrible or love bands in a similar style but who haven't had so much success i.e. I like woefully obscure pop-punk bands like Dagobah but despise Sum 41. Mind you, they're not really pop-punk... but that's a whole other argument.
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The best ones are the ones that are like "ZOMG HOW DARE THEY EVOLVE MUSICALLY AT ALL I WANT DEBUT ALBUM V2.0 GRRRRR".
Also, your opinion is invalid, but thanks for playing!
:)
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I dunno, Metalcrypt had a decent piece about all that. Evolution is one thing....but no turning into a pile of shit.
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I met the lead singer of Norma Jean last summer or so and he was very nice. (He let me use his cell phone because mine was dead. Give the boy some brownie points.) Although, as Ryan Adams has proved time and time again, musical talent is generally not related at all to one's worth as a human being.
At any rate, I find that it is quite cool to hate on R.E.M., which makes me sad because they are my babies. (I've never met a hipster that likes them, although as I am a somewhat younger fan I can't really speak for the pre-Warner Bros. fan contigent. Perhaps it's the popularity factor?)
Oh, and hating Bright Eyes is neither redundant nor unnecessary. His lyrics make my pretentious brain happy, but his voice makes my harmony-junkie ears sad.
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Pop Punk was a cool genere when it was the queers, schreeching weasel, boris the sprinkler, groovie ghoulies, ect. This GC-esque radio rock is just that radio rock.
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I dunno, Metalcrypt had a decent piece about all that. Evolution is one thing....but no turning into a pile of shit.
It's one thing if you do an Eighteen Visions and go from playing rock-hard metalcore to shitty radio pop, but people who decry Poison the Well from 'Tear From the Red' and onwards are idiots. Oh no, how dare they use the occasional melodic run. Boo-fucking-hoo.
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Why do you care so much? People can think Poison The Well got rubbish if they want. Personally I think the early stuff's boring as hell too, but I must admit I prefer it to the turgid rubbish I heard from later records.
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I write about music, which means I care too much about music, period. That, and I also have anal tendencies that cause me to retain when things are not given a fair evaluation.
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I hate no music... ever... I can be indifferent, like to GC and their whinier Canadian counterpart Simple Plan... even rap and country and vastly over-played european dance music (i.e. Ozone)... but I don't hate them... hell, I listen to everything... I've got some MCR, I've got a ton of White Stripes. In that sense, to me, music is quiet often just music... I'll listen to something that suits the particular mood I'm in. Sometimes when I just don't care, I queue up the whole library and randomize the order. Sure, there's music that I like more than the rest (Metric, Arcade Fire, DFA1979, etc.)
But, for sure, hating something because it's cool to do so, or because everyone else likes it is just really ignorant... it's poseurism taken to the extreme
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Ok, let me start off with saying I'm not usually this harsh. My point: Hating any band, however bad, is NOT cool. If you thing saying forcing your distaste for certain music (no matter how crappy) on people is cool, you're a loser and probably need a new hobby.
I appoligize once again for my harshness.
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^ I don't understand that entirely. Typos?
But I certainly know there's enough bands I hate. And why the hell not? Hate and anger are good things. Ying-yang, woman! Music to me is a serious matter, so I have serious feelings about it. That's like saying you're not allowed to hate any politicians, no matter how evil they are. Stop me now before I Godwin!
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I agree about the music hate thing. It is annoying as fuck when you're a hater. Haters suck. I've never gripped onto the concept of disliking something being cool... Don't trends and such always center around liking something? Isn't that the point?
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Miller's paradox!
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I don't hate anything because it's trendy to hate it.
I just hate stuff.
It fills the void left by the absence of love from my miserable existence -_-
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Hating Dave Matthews is a necessary if not sufficient condition to get you on my list of cool people. I don't see how anyone could use the following words to to describe his music: 'sincere', 'cathartic', 'rockin', 'thought provoking', 'not-shit'. Additionally, the bland universality he so painstakingly infuses his music with ensures he will be utterly ubiquitous. If I don't want to hear linkin park, I don't have to but I can't get away from Dave Matthews band. I work at a starbucks and its only natural that we sell dmb cds there. Yuppies buy his cd with their lattes like people buy gum in the grocery store line. "I haven't developed any real taste in music but hey I've heard of this guy, he must be good. That and that creepy fuckin mermaid (it's actually a siren) on my coffee cup recomends it so I guess I'll buy it. I wasn't doing anything else with all this disposable income."
Additionally his anti-Bush (I hate Bush) rhetoric was the most ironic and futile things I have ever witnessed. First, his fan base is composed of yuppies and frat boys who vote republican anyway. Second, he's an inarticulate, insipid spokesperson. The whole Vote for Change tour was about as effecacious for enacting change as slapping one of those support our troops ribbons on your gas guzzling suv is to defeating the Iraqi insurgency. I hate you Dave Matthews, you disingenuous fuck.
The White Stripes have some good tunes and are known to rock occaissonaly but I think the backlash is due to having them forced down our throats. They won a lot of fans not because of their music but because they had a clever lego-mation video that appealed to our childhood nostalgia. That and they were the talk of celebrity and rock magazines long before anyone was buying their records. Quipped one sceptic on some show I saw, "I'm glad I was told to like them." The White Stripes are also responsible in part, I think, for this whole indie is a sound thing. Indie is not a sound. Real indie bands are bands who do as much as they can to bypass major label/industry bullshit. It's a method of operation. I think it's harmful to think of indie as a sound or a recent explosion in the industry. You risk turning it into a fad and you discourage people from looking any further than the sound the industry has co-opted.
Sorry, that was a long rant.
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Wait a second Khar, you have a "Miserable Existence"? Doesn't that make you a (dum dum duuuuum) EMO kid?
La-dee-dumbles, I'ma just kidding. To hate is unfortunately human but I try as hard as I can to like or at least put up with nearly everything.
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Guys this isn't about bands that you hate; it's bands that pop-or-indie-culture deems it hip to hate. Let's not make this a big festival of antagonism, hey?
Anyhow, Stylus appears to hate any band comprosed of 1) boys and 2) guitars.
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First, I do not see how it is possible to hate the Bravery.
Second, around here it seems pretty popular to hate Mars Volta, but that may just be a local thing.
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True, my post was kinda tangental but my disjointed thoughts may contain insight into why scenesters hate them. Particularly in the Stripes' case.
And I eagerly await your reaction to my disc, Johnny C (off topic, sorry).
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A lot of hipsters I run into hate The Mars Volta, which would be fine if they could provide a reason other than "They are pretentious assholes"... please, the whole "indie/hipster" scene revolves around being a pretentious asshole, the majority of musicians can be described as pretentious assholes. It is such a weak reason to back such a strong dislike of something. That is why I have concluded that it is cool to hate The Mars Volta among certain circles of hipsters.
God... I fucking hate hipsters.
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Anyhow, Stylus appears to hate any band comprosed of 1) boys and 2) guitars.
Apparently there's one guy there who seriously argues that boys with guitars no longer have anything to offer modern music. At least I think that's right. But not all of them are so bad, my friend writes for them and his love for the Futureheads is massive. Unfortunately, he does the pop reviews...
Out of interest, what does an indie hipster listen to anyway?
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Apparently you've all missed my point, but that's alright I expected that...
What about Bright Eyes? Or does he suck too much to be included in this conversation as well.
I was thinking that too. Most of the people i know hate bright eyes when they haven't even listened ;\ it's just caught my attention much more than any other artist.
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You know, now that I think about it: emo bashing. That's been cool to do since time immemorial, although a lot of that these days is the fault of those bad bands that get called emo for some reason, so you can't really blame people.
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You know, now that I think about it: emo bashing. That's been cool to do since time immemorial, although a lot of that these days is the fault of those bad bands that get called emo for some reason, so you can't really blame people.
nowadays singing about girls and heartbreak = emo.
and that's only for pussies! who likes pussy music anyway?!
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Bring back the emo violence!
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Yeah I don't get why it's cool to bash on The Mars Volta. They're not completely pretentious. They KNOW their lyrics are more often ridiculous than not, and that's why they just keep on pushing it and getting kicks out of it. =P
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Well, if someone thinks TMV are bad then they won't investigate them well enough to find out that they aren't serious about their lyrics. And I can see how people might just find their music pretentious even without taking the lyrics into account. Not something that bothers me, I think 'The Shape of Punk To Come' is a great record and that's pretentious as hell, but I can see how it would irk some people. And if it genuinely rubs them up the wrong way, then they aren't just hating it to be cool.
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BEST AVATAR EVER
er, back on topic: I think it depends on your definition of cool
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We have no scenesters here, because there is no scene. I live in a cultural wasteland and most people hardly know any music other than what is played on our one (horrible) local radio station. It's supposed to be for hot new hit music, but it even fails at that. They still play songs that were popular 6 years ago on there.
Jesus... where do you live? the Gobi Desert? that sucks... at least wher I live, many people may be musically ignorant, but there are nearly an equal amount who are musically knowledgeable.
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^That place sounds pretty much like where I live. Apart from a smattering of posers and elitists (in all genres and groupings) there are very few true muso's round here.
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My town is run by scenesters.
They're everywhere, ready to strike with their angular haircuts and condescending stares.
Seriously, I live my life in fear of these creatures - it's like Big Brother only worse as there are more of them and they have more obnoxious clothing.
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I live near Toronto... so, between hipsters, emo kids, and rap-fans... I'm losing my mind.
Everything seems to be an assault on my musical senses... I'm not sure which of the three are worse... the glaring hipsters, the omni-whining emokids, or the bling-blinging rapsters
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The White Stripes just aren't that good. Jack can lay down some decent stuff, but Meg's uninspired heavy handed drumming is pretty awful.
Bonham did the same thing, and look at that guy.
I personally like the White Stripes, though there are better bands who do the same thing. Whether it be the brother-sister duo gimmick (Firey Furnaces) or the bluesy thing (The Kills).
And as for Good Charolette. I hate them because I hate their music. Just because I don't like a rock band doesn't mean I don't like rock. There's a pretty fat line between a genre and a band, you know.
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Yeah I don't get why it's cool to bash on The Mars Volta. They're not completely pretentious.
They're also really laid back and chill in person. Every time I've seen them headlining a show, they've hung outside the venue and talked with random fans before the show. On the other hand, most hipsters are total assholes and won't be seen in the near vicinity of anyone or anything they deem unworthy.
Savor the irony.
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First, I do not see how it is possible to hate the Bravery.
How about they and the Killers ripped off the new-wave sound of the 80's without adding anything of their own to it. Even though The Bravery's drummer went to my high school, I don't really like The Bravery. I don't hate them either, though.
The same goes for The Killers.
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i never know what's cool anymore.
actually, it seems i tend to hate what's cool, but then again i guess that's cool huh?
what a convoluted topic, and druid, i was put off to everything you said the minute you said "i'm guessing he's into metal because he hates pop-punk" (paraphrased) a generalization like that really makes me not want to listen to you anymore....
plus you like pop-punk ;)
P.S. i had never heard of the Bravery before i saw them on Conan O'Brian. i knew not whether they were cool or not, but i did not like them. they seemed astoundingly generic to me.
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Like Louis XIV, they aren't "favorite band list bait" because of the way they don't add anything new and interesting, but they do make fun songs.
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Where I live there is a total count of
hipsters?: ZERO
emo kids: three?
And in Vancouver I don't think you see much scenesters at all, just the ocassional emo kid. They primarily only come out at night.
I wonder how many emo kids there are in Hawaii.
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Basically any hack band is cool to hate, like any of the post-Nickelback generic/alt-rock bands that sprung up like Default, Theory of a Deadman. And then there's Creed, one of the worst bands of all time EVER.
I also think it's immensely entertaining to not like Radiohead. I'm wearing asbestos now. :P
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A lot of hipsters I run into hate The Mars Volta, which would be fine if they could provide a reason other than "They are pretentious assholes"...
90% of the hipsters who hate The Mars Volta have never listened to them in their life. For real.
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The Mars Volta sound was MADE for hipsters.
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Made for hipsters who were too hip to get into cheesy 70's prog rock.
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How about they and the Killers ripped off the new-wave sound of the 80's without adding anything of their own to it.
I disagree but that's for another topic.
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It's hip to Hate Bright Eyes, it's hip to hate the eels, it's hip as hell to hate on Franz Ferdinand or the Killers,
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i'm tired of this thread, it keeps tricking me, i go oooo new post something for me to read! then it just sucks. [/gripe] now i'll just shut up and stop reading it so you can all go about your bussiness without me nay-saying like a dick
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I must say that it seems awfully cool to hate Norma Jean right now. Rather annoying, really.
Okay, this is a little random, but whenever someone mentions Norma Jean, I am forced to remember Cat's Eye (the best worst movie you could ever see) wherin a pre-pubescent Drew Barrymore (who is playing a rather...'exceptional' child) recieves a Cabbage Patch doll named Norma Jean. She then looks into the camera and says, " I...LOVE...NORMA...JEAN!" And then the nuns take her away.
The point is, even though their music might not bring my joy, their name does. You just gotta find good in stuff that you 'hate'. And also because nuns are funny.
Isn't it supposed to be cool to hate the Libertines? I could be mistaken.
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I live near Toronto... so, between hipsters, emo kids, and rap-fans... I'm losing my mind.
Everything seems to be an assault on my musical senses... I'm not sure which of the three are worse... the glaring hipsters, the omni-whining emokids, or the bling-blinging rapsters
Hahaha, the ONLY place I see hipsters is shows and Bathurst Station. Seriously. And my friends keep calling me a hipster, and I keep telling them to shut up. However, you are correct about the emo kids and rap fans *shudder* THEY'RE EVERYWHERE! SEND HELP!
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It's always been cool to hate the spice girls
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What? That's a dirty lie and you know it!
Ok, this is the fucking silliest thread ever. ARG.
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It would seem that just about every emo band out there gets made fun of (by everyone but the emo kids)... they seem to have very polarizing styles...
Me, I don't mind them too much... it's the whining fans that I hate... and the fact that you can't differentiate the chicks from the duded *shudder*... I recently went to an Underoath concert (I got free tickets... don't worry)... and it was actually cool cause you could stage dive and everything... it's just the screaming fifteen year old girls at the foot of the stage weren't very good at catching me and my 190 lbs, and I kept flattening them. Now, that (the fact that the concert ITSELF was fun) being said, I severely wanted to maim nearly all of the fans... especially the "hardcore dancers"...
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God I hate those guys that dance like that. I mean, it is funny, but really... Oh well, at least they almost never go to proper hardcore gigs.
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Haha, I think my friend summed it up best whne she described hardcore dancing as "resembling a pidgeon trying to take off and failing".
I hate hardcore music....passionately.
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Thanks to the vast number of emo bands performing for Warped Tour (at least... at the Barrie Ont. venue... not sure about the other venues), it probably won't be quite as good as last year (which, to be fair, was awesome).
Emo = a new way for whiny teens to express angst... what ever hapened to becoming an introvert, bottling up those feelings...
I mean... err... um... I never did that (seriously... I am extrovert to the exponent of 100)
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Heh... I got a kick out of a "cool to hate" moment today. I was selling back a few unwanted albums to the local record trader when they refused to buy back an old Godsmack album. The reasoning: "Everyone hates them and we can't sell their cds." I about laughed my ass off. The clerk acted like he was going to get bad music cooties or something from holding the cd ^_^
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Nothing wrong with Hardcore tech dancing at Hardcore shows...the two sort of go together. Just a case of where and why you start doing it.
Hardcore is just like Black Metal and Indy Wrestling. When it rains, it pours...so there's either a band that's full of crap all the time or a band that kicks ass all the time.
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Haha, I think my friend summed it up best whne she described hardcore dancing as "resembling a pidgeon trying to take off and failing".
I hate hardcore music....passionately.
Silence! Do not insult my beloved Fugazi, Minutemen and Black Flag, for they are supreme. Your hatred of them is foolish.
Please don't think that's the way hardcore kids dance. You'll make us cry. People mostly seem to do that tuff-guy dancing to bad metal bands with stupid haircuts and more beatdowns than sense anyway. I've only ever seen it at one or two hardcore gigs in my life.
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Please don't think that's the way hardcore kids dance. You'll make us cry.
It's true... most people are smart enough to refrain from windmilling and back-flip-attempting at actual hardcore shows... I was at a Protest The Hero show in Toronto, and some kid started hardcore dancing and nearly got the shit beaten out of him...
It certainly is ironic that the true hardcore do'nt "hardcore dance"
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i got the shit kicked out of my at a converge gig. at first, i thought this one guy was mad becasue i was making out with his girlfriend, but after a while everyone was hitting me. either that girl was a prolific little slut or hardcore fans are weird.
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They probably just stick together. I certainly know, anyone made out with the partner of one of my metal brothers or sisters at a gig, I'd POLEAXE his ass.
With a poleaxe.
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i might have to resort to drive-by kissing then. or save it for the weekend.
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i got the shit kicked out of my at a converge gig. at first, i thought this one guy was mad becasue i was making out with his girlfriend, but after a while everyone was hitting me. either that girl was a prolific little slut or hardcore fans are weird.
No we're not. For a start, it was a Converge gig so plenty of those people won't really be into hardcore much at all. Also, much as I love Converge they tend to attract a large amount of the dickhead element to their gigs.
some kid started hardcore dancing and nearly got the shit beaten out of him...
Yeah, some brats tried to do that crap during a D-Rail set a while ago. The band told them to stop it since there was blatantly too little room, and my friend threatened to batter the shit out of one of them if he kicked him one more time. Tuff guy posing always gets short shrift at proper hardcore gigs.
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If anyone says Coldplay, I will skullfuck them.
What does skullfuck MEAN? I don't know. I think Tycho invented it, but that just makes it more unclear what it means. I imagine it involving a skull and a lot of pain.
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Thank you. I actually like Coldplay.
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Older Coldplay = better... I really don't like the new CD
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What does skullfuck MEAN? I don't know. I think Tycho invented it, but that just makes it more unclear what it means. I imagine it involving a skull and a lot of pain.
Go play the first emogame until the very end. It involves what's his face and the dead skull of Steven Tyler. woo!
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Skull fucking, is having sex with someones eye socket. Usually
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Skull-fuck - v. To copulate with the head of a person, generally disembodied, via the eye.
Oh, and post-irony is totally a valid concept. This is where people transition from liking crappy things because it is funny, to just genuinely liking crappy things. It's like this...
"Oh man, that knitted wall-square saying "Bless This Mess" is so totally retarded, I must put it in my kitchen. How funny."
to...
"My home is consumed by kitsch. I enjoy it on a visceral level now."
Back to the original topic, though. Yeah, it's cool to hate the White Stripes. I think it's because their whole scrappy, low-key blues rock infused with awkward sexuality worked better on a smaller scale. It felt more genuine. Meg's clunky drumming grounded their music... it made them feel more homespun and huggable. Now that they are sort of a big thing (and thus bigger targets for skepticism) the context has changed. They aren't a scrappy little duo fighting to pay their rent with music. They are a big-name act with a clunky drummer.
I think after the Big Lebowski came out it became cool to hate the Eagles. Sure people who hated the Eagles before might have had a valid point, but it wasn't "cool" to hate them.
Somewhere along the line it became cool to hate The Smiths. And The Cure. Note the difference: before you could very respectably hate these bands, but somewhere along the road it became something of a fashionable statement to hate them. People may not hate them because of said statement, but the statement still exists.
It's cool to hate Weezer. Then again, they took a big nosedive. I think it's cool to hate Radiohead. (Depends on the crowd.) It's totally, totally cool among many circles to hate Coldplay. (Sorry, but... it is.)
It's a weird little thing that happens. You have some small local band... they're pretty good, not perfect... but everyone digs them. If you talk smack about this band, you're being a dick. You should be more supportive. That's like walking into a grammar school piano recital and being all, "You suck, little girl!" You gloss over the blemishes of the music and pipe up the good stuff. You assume that they are good people.
But then they become popular and big and they don't need the support anymore. People pay attention to those flaws. They flaunt that they can identify those flaws. It becomes some weird cool-badge to hate the band for those flaws. You assume that the band is full of rich assholes.
Had Radiohead released "Kid A" as a debut album on a small label I might have thought of it differently. It would have been a totally different context. (I found it, in reality, to be dull and sugar-coated. But then again, I have never been much of a fan.) If Good Charlotte was a small indie pop-punk band playing all-ages venues in the mid-west people would probably be less inclined to be so vocal about their disdain. Sure, they might still suck, but non-fans would probably be more likely to give them an A for effort. If Dave Matthews was a retarded little boy, you might possibly go buy a ticket to a show just to give your support. If Trent Reznor was an acapella singing teenage girl at a high school variety show, I would totally buy her poorly recorded album mastered down from a dictophone tape.
But now, in reality? Fuck those people.
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Double-post:
I think it shouldn't be looked down upon to judge music for things other than strictly content. If Godspeed You Black Emperor played a show in Chicago during which they hung Confederate flags and banners reading, "Fuck Niggers" ... I probably wouldn't be so receptive to their clever, ambling musical compositions.
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Haha, I think my friend summed it up best whne she described hardcore dancing as "resembling a pidgeon trying to take off and failing".
I hate hardcore music....passionately.
Silence! Do not insult my beloved Fugazi, Minutemen and Black Flag, for they are supreme. Your hatred of them is foolish.
.
w00t for you, my friend!
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It's cool to hate Weezer. Then again, they took a big nosedive.
Partly that's because Weezer's main audience are the same jockish assholes that used to flush Rivers Cuomo's head down the toilet in the high school locker room. It's hard to respect them for that.
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Thanks to the vast number of emo bands performing for Warped Tour (at least... at the Barrie Ont. venue... not sure about the other venues), it probably won't be quite as good as last year (which, to be fair, was awesome).
I'll see you there, dude! I'll be there with bells on (figuratively speaking, the dressing at warped doesn't need more flamboyancy) and moshing my ass off!
Haha, I think my friend summed it up best whne she described hardcore dancing as "resembling a pidgeon trying to take off and failing".
I hate hardcore music....passionately.
Silence! Do not insult my beloved Fugazi, Minutemen and Black Flag, for they are supreme. Your hatred of them is foolish.
Please don't think that's the way hardcore kids dance. You'll make us cry.
Aw, I'm sorry, I meant neo-hardcore. The hardcore music where the kids where women's pants and have silly haircuts. I'm actually a fan of all three of bands.
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I never even thought of Fugazi as hardcore. Or Black Flag. I thought they were just punk (Flag that is.) Maybe the "CORE" aspect came from musclehead Rollins.
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Only the really early Black Flag stuff had the punk sound. By Damaged they had very much a hardcore sound and approach, and it was nothing to do with Rollins being a musclehead. They were just playing that music, plain and simple. As for Fugazi, you don't get any more hardcore than Ian Mackaye. The man was in Minor Threat after all. It wasn't called 'hardcore' to try to sound tough or anything (at least, not by most people) but because a lot of people wanted to move away from what they saw as the more superficial concerns of punk, where it seemed like it was becoming style over content.
Eww, Skibas, don't mention those bad haircut metal bands. I had to work a gig a little while ago where the first two bands ripped out some good, old-fashioned, fun thrashy hardcore and then I had to sit through two bands with jeans so tight they must surely have had no genitalia and hair that probably cost more than my entire outfit. And I don't even want to think about the music... urgh.
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Please dont call those sort of bands Metal, because they're not. I know you probably dont mean it in that way, but still.
Hey, least most Hardcore is better than Metalcore. Because it's a VERY fine art to make decent Metalcore.
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I kind of love that argument between metalheads and hardcore kids. "You're responsible! No, you are!" No-one wants to think their scene is to be blamed for those bands!
You're right about metalcore. When it's pulled off well like Fall Silent, Thirty Seconds Until Armageddon or Converge it's great, but most of the time... oh dear me no.
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Lol, you're very right man, it literally is like that. Hmmmm, to me and lots of others, those bands are not Metalcore. More Metallic Hardcore, mean like Hardcore but with a Metal influence...rather than a Metal/Hardcore cross-breed.
Metalcore is more Shadows Fall, etc style stuff.
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Older Coldplay = better... I really don't like the new CD
For me...
Parachutes > Rush of Blood
X&Y > Rush of Blood
Parachutes > X&Y
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bands with jeans so tight they must surely have had no genitalia and hair that probably cost more than my entire outfit. And I don't even want to think about the music... urgh.
Oh man, that made me laugh so hard! <3
I still can't believe that people really like that kind of music. I might be able to tolerate it if I hadn't had a REALLY bad trip at one of my first (and only, after that) hardcore shows.
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Well, considering we're on about the really crap forms of "hardcore" most people in the scene with a brain don't.
Man, I was made to sit through an entire Avenged Sevenfold ablum the other day....*vomits at the memory* what is that SHIT? I mean really? Definatly on the cool to hate list because it's so bad. And some people try to say they're Metal....*vomits again*
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Yeah? You weren't forced to listen to Taking Back Sunday. That shit can cause brain tumors.
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there's a HUGE difference between pop-punk, melodic punk rock and shitty poser, $$ oriented rock. i think we could include GC in the latter ones so that we would not offend the good pop punk legacy of bands such as Screeching Weasel or The Queers... (and with this im not saying im a fan of this kind of stuff.. i just respecto good, honest music...)
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Well, considering we're on about the really crap forms of "hardcore" most people in the scene with a brain don't.
Man, I was made to sit through an entire Avenged Sevenfold ablum the other day....*vomits at the memory* what is that SHIT? I mean really? Definatly on the cool to hate list because it's so bad. And some people try to say they're Metal....*vomits again*
Have you heard the new album? They've gone power metal! And no, I'm not kidding.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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It was Sounding the Seventh Trumpet I had to listen to....I'll track down the new album to pass evil judgement upon it's shitness.
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Well, considering we're on about the really crap forms of "hardcore" most people in the scene with a brain don't.
Man, I was made to sit through an entire Avenged Sevenfold ablum the other day....*vomits at the memory* what is that SHIT? I mean really? Definatly on the cool to hate list because it's so bad. And some people try to say they're Metal....*vomits again*
Have you heard the new album? They've gone power metal! And no, I'm not kidding.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Oh please God no..
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I'll see you there, dude! I'll be there with bells on (figuratively speaking, the dressing at warped doesn't need more flamboyancy) and moshing my ass off!.
Rawk on! I"m mostly going to Warped to see the Transplants and Offspring, cause they're fun to see live... but emo-beating is a good reason too.
Now, in response to the immense amount of bashing vis-à-vis Meg White's drumming... it's kind of to be expected, after all, I'm pretty sure it was Jack who taught her to drum in the first place... ... but yeah, I guess after all these years, she probably should have evolved a bit...
so yeah... i forget my point... :S
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Well, I listen to ALL of the new Avenged Sevenfold album....YUCK. That is not god damn Power Metal. Yes, there are some Powe elements in there, but they're weak and badly done. And the Core bits suck as ever.
I'm gonna find who started calling that bollocks Power Metal and kill their family first.
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Rawk on! I"m mostly going to Warped to see the Transplants and Offspring, cause they're fun to see live... but emo-beating is a good reason too.
Yah, I pretty much dislike all the bands at Warped, maybe on the exception of one or two, but I'm going cuz it's a fun place to be, and I always have agreat time AND tradition. I randomly bumped in about 15 people I knew there last year.
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Warped Tour is coming here. It already had a pretty week lineup, but all the bands even POSSIBLY worth seeing (Like, 1 and a half) aren't going to be there. Instead we get the Used and Flogging fucking Molly.
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Only the really early Black Flag stuff had the punk sound. By Damaged they had very much a hardcore sound and approach, and it was nothing to do with Rollins being a musclehead. They were just playing that music, plain and simple. As for Fugazi, you don't get any more hardcore than Ian Mackaye. The man was in Minor Threat after all. It wasn't called 'hardcore' to try to sound tough or anything (at least, not by most people) but because a lot of people wanted to move away from what they saw as the more superficial concerns of punk, where it seemed like it was becoming style over content.
Huh? Man, now I am really confused. Superficial concerncs of punk? How is hardcore being defined here? Black Flag is all right, I prefer some of their earlier stuff (Wasted is probably my favorite song) but some of the stuff with Rollins was just kind of dumb and thinly hidden misogyny.
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Warped Tour is coming here. It already had a pretty week lineup, but all the bands even POSSIBLY worth seeing (Like, 1 and a half) aren't going to be there. Instead we get the Used and Flogging fucking Molly.
I forgot about Flogging Molly! What do you have against them... they're fun to listen to
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I think any band under the genre of 'emo' is lovably hated. Not unfairly, of course. With the likes of Dashboard Confessional and Death Cab, 'emo' has been dismissed by hipsters as immature whines of teenage angst.
I have to admit, though, I still LOVE alexisonfire, who are definetly classified as 'emo-core'. I especially LOVE Dallas Green, their guitarist, who played at the White Ribbon Benefit Concert in Toronto with Jully Black - anyone see? (I also LOVE run-on sentences.) Yippee.
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My friend was there. If you saw a little asian girl with red bangs, that was my friend. I believe she went with some guy friend of her's from school.
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Huh? Man, now I am really confused. Superficial concerncs of punk? How is hardcore being defined here? Black Flag is all right, I prefer some of their earlier stuff (Wasted is probably my favorite song) but some of the stuff with Rollins was just kind of dumb and thinly hidden misogyny.
Wasted's a good song, but I think I prefer the Circle Jerks version. I thought Morris' vocals had improved a lot by then. As for Flag's misogyny, well personally I disagree but I can see where you're coming from with that one, it's a reasonable conclusion.
That's just the way a lot of people who were around in the early days of hardcore seem to talk about the way they saw the punk scene, and they wanted to differentiate themselves from it so started adding the hardcore tag. And also the people who created hardcore were really young, and often seem to have felt alienated from the older punks. It's also pretty understandable when you think of people like the DC edge kids contrasted with the famously druggy punk scene.