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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Narr on 25 Apr 2006, 10:49

Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Narr on 25 Apr 2006, 10:49
A couple of the threads that have been posted in the last couple weeks seem to have very strong anti-ska sentiments. Most of the bigger name ska bands have been bashed repeatedly by some of our hipster élites.

I am confused.

I thought the whole point of the genre was to be absurd and silly, and that's kind of the big draw to it.  Why is that such a bad thing?  A lot of music talent goes into it, a lot of the time.  (Some of my most favorite songs are by the Aquabats.)

Is it just Reel Big Fish and They Might Be Giants that everyone here hates and I'm totally missing something, or what?

edit: lol typoz!!1
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: KharBevNor on 25 Apr 2006, 11:36
Yes. Ska will traumatise your children, corrode your teeth and punch holes in the ozone layer big enough to drive a Star Destroyer through.

Winners don't do ska.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: ASturge on 25 Apr 2006, 12:06
bah!

I am a winner!

And I like Ska.

Not love it. But i can definitly get down to some Mad Caddies every once in a while!
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: TrueNeutral on 25 Apr 2006, 12:07
I kindof like the Aquabats.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: OtterErotic on 25 Apr 2006, 12:16
Steve Albini once said that ska is "mostly for retards."

Just saying.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Ghostwriter on 25 Apr 2006, 12:16
Ska can be excellent when done correctly!  My favorites are Streetlight Manifesto, Catch-22, Common Rider, and Mighty Mighty Bosstones.

As for the people who hate ska on a fundamental basis: I'm not sure I understand.  Are you just jackasses?  Are you musical snobs by trade?  Are you taking a gracious opportunity to lambaste a style of music that is out of your spectrum, possibly to appear as though you have a great amount of musical taste and conviction?  I really do not get it.  So help me out!  I'll remember to decode your opinion, which you have a tendency to purvey as an objective truth, into the realm of musical subjectivity again.  It's okay, I understand that you are a winner* because you listen to seriously authentic underground shit that nobody has ever heard of and therefore has not been soiled by any cultural context.

*I am referring to the "special" musical olympics, of course
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Rubby on 25 Apr 2006, 12:24
I kinda like Reel Big Fish, Especially that song "Beer". Whenever he's like "I think I'll have myself a beer" I'm like "hey, me too!".
Seriously though. Ska kinda came along with that whole adolescent punk rock phase for me. Plus, where I lived there was hardly ever shows so when a Ska band came around you had to be all "sure I like ska" unless you didn't want to go to another show for about 4 months.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: JodyAnthony on 25 Apr 2006, 12:34
I liked ska when it wasnt just bad punk with trumpets.

what ever happened to the good stuff like desmond dekker and the like?

EDIT: I must say though, I loves me some TMBG
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: KharBevNor on 25 Apr 2006, 12:45
It went to the big dancehall in the sky.

I hate ska on a fundamental basis because it's generally annoying and unoriginal. I R MUSIC LEETIST.

I like Leftover Crack though.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Kai on 25 Apr 2006, 13:31
Leftover Crack and The Aquabats are the extent of it. ANd if you want to call Propaghandi ska.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Thrillho on 25 Apr 2006, 13:58
TMBG are ska?

I don't like much ska, but I do like some...RBF, Specials, Madness...
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Kai on 25 Apr 2006, 14:03
Wait, who said TMBG were ska?

EDIT: Wowzas
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Thrillho on 25 Apr 2006, 14:09
Quote from: Kai
Wait, who said TMBG were ska?

EDIT: Wowzas


The OP.

'Wowzas' indeed.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Fen on 25 Apr 2006, 15:20
The Specials anyone?
2tone ska rocks my socks.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Mark7 on 25 Apr 2006, 15:57
Only 60s Jamaican and 70s English Ska is worth your precious time.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: ImRonBurgundy? on 25 Apr 2006, 16:33
the Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra.  best ska band in the world?  yes.
Title: Re: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Inlander on 25 Apr 2006, 18:50
Quote from: Narr
I thought the whole point of the genre was to be absurd and silly


And therein lies the problem with contemporary "ska": so much of it is the musical equivalent of a fart-joke.  Ska (like reggae, of which it was a precursor) was originally an incredibly wide-ranging form - as is any musical genre worth anything - and could be party music, social protest, whatever.  Listen to the famous song "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker to hear ska how it should be.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: jcknbl on 25 Apr 2006, 20:17
Go to a high school for 4 years with a music scene that consists entirely of eight terrible ska bands and you lose all sympathy for the genre.

That said, The English Beat is really good.
Title: Re: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: ALoveSupreme on 25 Apr 2006, 21:16
Quote from: Inlander
Quote from: Narr
I thought the whole point of the genre was to be absurd and silly


And therein lies the problem with contemporary "ska": so much of it is the musical equivalent of a fart-joke.  Ska (like reggae, of which it was a precursor) was originally an incredibly wide-ranging form - as is any musical genre worth anything - and could be party music, social protest, whatever.  Listen to the famous song "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker to hear ska how it should be.


Though I'm not as versed in the argument as you are, that is essentially what I was going to say.  Guess it was a good thing you did it first, anyways.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Ghostwriter on 25 Apr 2006, 21:24
What is this ska music that can be likened to a crude and simple musical joke?  I have yet to hear it.  No, really, I have no idea what you're talking about.  Just what are you people listening to, or what am I not hearing?  I've never observed ska music as being absurd so much as unrelentingly energetic, in a hyperbolic and (yeah) absurdist sense.  But crude and silly?  What?

(http://www.wondermark.com/comics/003.gif)

YEAH THAT'S RIGHT HATERS, PLEASE TAKE ONE OR SEVERAL BLUNT OBJECTS TO THE HEAD
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Zaarin on 25 Apr 2006, 23:12
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Madnessband.jpg)
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: ImRonBurgundy? on 25 Apr 2006, 23:14
Quote from: Ghostwriter
What is this ska music that can be likened to a crude and simple musical joke?


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/TheHusseinSkank/the-history-of-ska.gif)
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Apr 2006, 00:45
That sums it up very nicely indeed :D
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Bunnyman on 26 Apr 2006, 01:28
Wait...so some time in the 70s, Reggae branched into Ska (Stupid, Silly) and Jungle (Self-Important, Heady).  Good to see we have all our bases covered.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Apr 2006, 01:35
No no no

Ska evolved into reggae.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: JodyAnthony on 26 Apr 2006, 06:29
(http://nothingnice.com/comics/20050801.gif)
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: thermodynamics on 26 Apr 2006, 07:43
i don't really bash ska in forums, but the music really grinds my gears.

i guess a big part is the ska fanbase. i have several friends that are all about ska, and they are not the brightest ones. actually one of them, my friend jessie, used to be retarded.

ska, at least for this indie rock listener in tennessee, is just an annoyance. o well.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: TrueNeutral on 26 Apr 2006, 07:53
Wait, do you mean retarded as in really stupid or as in the actual condition?

If the latter, wow, I had no idea one could stop being retarded.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: MilkmanDan on 26 Apr 2006, 08:15
The History of Ska Comic pretty much sums it up. Pick up a Trojan boxset (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006F2TC/102-0780631-0960140?v=glance&n=5174) and you got some awesome ska.

Also, Bunnyman: what?
That musical timeline is like some sort of Bizarro universe. Ska became Reggae, not the other way round. And Jungle? I guess you could say reggae met rave and breakbeats and evolved into jungle. Sort of. But even so, that's not until the 1990's. And it was neither self-important or heady.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: butmyrobotloves on 26 Apr 2006, 09:16
I don't listen to ska on any sort of a regular basis, nor do I listen to any grand assortment of it.  But I must admit, it's a music genre that's disgustingly fun.  Makes me dance.  That's worth something.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Brian Majestic on 26 Apr 2006, 09:25
I like the stuff I've heard by the Selecter, at any rate.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: eternie on 26 Apr 2006, 12:04
I don't mind ska. I mean, I don't listen to much, but I have nothing against it. And having something against it just because other people listen to it is silly. :D Jus' sayin'.

But then I'm so out of the loop (and at the ripe old age of 18!) that I don't notice what's going on around me. Gives me kind of an advantage.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: El Opium on 26 Apr 2006, 12:30
This board needs someone who is obsessed with first-wave ska and makes sarcastic comments to those who like third-wave too much.

(Imagines trying to parallel park a star destroyer through an ozone hole)
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Narr on 26 Apr 2006, 13:14
So I was right.

It is musical elitism.  :\
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: butmyrobotloves on 26 Apr 2006, 16:06
Quote from: tommydski
i'mronburgundy? (man, could you tell me your name i feel fucking stupid talking to a film reference...) did you do that drawing? that was superb!


I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but nah that wasn't an original drawing, it's from www.toothpastefordinner.com.  You'd probably love to browse the archives, there's brilliant satire for nearly every occasion.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Mark7 on 26 Apr 2006, 16:10
Good old Drew.

He make music too.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Ghostwriter on 26 Apr 2006, 17:08
Quote from: tommydski
btw - ska is something simple folk listen to between the age of fifteen and eighteen. you will grow out of it trust me.


Oh shit!  Did you just...did you just judge an entire genre of music with one sweeping insult!?  Gasp!

Sarcasm aside...who told you that?  That's an entirely fucking retarded thing to say.  I kid you not when I say that there is honestly some emotionally charged, intelligent, energetic ska music out there.  Seriously, what is with the "you'll grow out of it" angle?  Christ, that's objectifying behavior.

To the elitists: I don't care how goddamn sophisticated you claim your tastes to be.  Get off your high horses and stop berating music you can't or don't want to connect with.  Or just suck a tailpipe.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Storm Rider on 26 Apr 2006, 17:46
Dude, are you aware that you deride like everyone in every thread you post in, and then accuse OTHER people of elitism?

I think you need to chill.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Ghostwriter on 26 Apr 2006, 17:57
Not in every thread.  But yeah, I have this tendency to mostly just lurk and appear when provoked.  Sorry for seeming so negative.

I am really tired of that sort of attitude, though.  And I'm not trying to be an elitist about anything.  Feel free to disagree with me if you feel that I'm the one crossing the bounds of subjectivity.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Narr on 26 Apr 2006, 18:15
Quote from: tommydski
i'mronburgundy? (man, could you tell me your name i feel fucking stupid talking to a film reference...) did you do that drawing? that was superb!
i'm going to do one of those for 'emo' i think.

btw - ska is something simple folk listen to between the age of fifteen and eighteen. you will grow out of it trust me.
Funny, I didn't start liking ska until very recently, and I am twenty years old now.

I was under the impression that the death metal thing was the "what you listen to between 15 and 18 and grow out of it" catagory before I got here, because that's what I've seen my whole life.  Of course, I don't know what the hell any genre is classified as, so I should say "any hard rock music that is popular with the goth crowd."
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Storm Rider on 26 Apr 2006, 19:16
On the contrary, I really needed to ease myself into death metal. I still don't like all of it, and I'm nearly beyond the age group you just mentioned. Really, the only reason I picked it up at all is because Testament became a sorta death/thrash hybrid on their later albums, and that acted as a jumping off point.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: onewheelwizzard on 26 Apr 2006, 22:23
I wonder how musically sophisticated ska can be before it morphs into something else.  If it starts getting jazzy, well, it might as well just be jazz.  If it starts getting psychedelic, it might as well just be psych-rock.  If it starts getting distorted and heavy-sounding, I don't know what the hell's up with that ska, but I doubt it's ska anymore.

I think this is the reason why so many people hate it.  If really good musicians play ska, it'll only remain ska for so long before turning into a more snob-compatible genre.  It's the kind of stuff that you feel guilty about listening to if you take it seriously, because if it's actually ska, nowadays that means it really is just punk with trumpets, and that's a pretty silly idea when you think about it seriously.

I'm not saying that nobody is capable of genuinely enjoying ska, but anyone who takes a serious approach towards music in general won't find too much in there to be excited about.  I suppose it makes perfect sense that the main target audience of ska musicians are high-schoolers (and I think it's quite probable that the majority of ska fans are still in high school).
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: thermodynamics on 26 Apr 2006, 23:03
Quote from: TrueNeutral
Wait, do you mean retarded as in really stupid or as in the actual condition?

If the latter, wow, I had no idea one could stop being retarded.



yeah, he was mildly retarded [i.e.   iq of under 70] but he got evaluated 3 years ago, and isn't anymore [iq  of 78].

weird, huh?

his favorite sport is wrestling, and he idolizes arnold schwartzenager.

(http://myspace-922.vo.llnwd.net/00515/22/93/515773922_l.jpg)

though it is off-topic, i had to follow up the post.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Switch on 27 Apr 2006, 00:11
My school just had Reel Big Fish play for free in a huge outdoor concert. I went and enjoyed myself. I do not own any of their albums, and am not about to buy any. I can't really get into Ska if I listen to it. I like Ska concerts though, it's nothing but upbeat Christian kids skanking. It's fun.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: ImRonBurgundy? on 27 Apr 2006, 03:11
okay, here's my take on it.

SKA BANDS THAT ARE GOOD:
Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra (http://www.myspace.com/tokyoskaparadiseorchestra)
The Skatalites (http://www.myspace.com/skatalites1)
Fishbone (http://www.myspace.com/fishboneisredhot)
Chris Murray (http://www.myspace.com/chrismurray)
Bad Manners (http://www.myspace.com/badmannersska)
Mephiskapheles (http://www.myspace.com/mephiskapheles666)
Westbound Train (http://www.myspace.com/westboundtrain)
Hepcat (http://www.myspace.com/hepcatlive)
The Pietasters (http://www.myspace.com/thepietasters)

SKA BANDS THAT MAKE ME WANT TO DIG MY EAR CANALS OUT:
Flip the Switch (http://www.myspace.com/fliptheswitch)
Buck-o-Nine (http://www.myspace.com/buckonine)
The Suburban Legends (http://www.myspace.com/suburbanlegends)
The Skananigans (http://www.myspace.com/skananigans)
High School Football Heroes (http://www.myspace.com/hsfh)
Codename: Rocky (http://www.myspace.com/codenamerocky)
A Billion Ernies (http://www.myspace.com/abillionernies)
Detective Jabsco (http://www.myspace.com/detectivejabsco)
Goldfinger (http://www.myspace.com/xgoldfingerx3)

the point i'm trying to make here is that ska IS NOT shitty poppy punk bands with horn sections and retarded lyrics.  it's just that those bands have somehow come to typify the genre, and it's frustrating for anyone who's really into the genre to hear it dismissed because of these shitty, stupid bands that are essentially ruining the entire genre.  it would be akin to basing your opinion of all metal on Bon Jovi and Slipknot.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: nuisance on 28 May 2006, 05:31
Quote from: JodyAnthony
what ever happened to the good stuff like desmond dekker and the like?

RIP, he died this week.  :(

Sadly I'll always think of 'Ob La Di' when I think of him - dearest Sir Paul was trying to make a ska track and named the characters "Molly" and "Desmond" because he thought they sounded like good Jamaican names.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Microfilm on 28 May 2006, 06:02
Ska is just kinda "meh" to me. It started this stupid trend at my school that I find irritating.

Ska isn't great or mindblowing, so I don't get the big deal.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: timehat on 28 May 2006, 06:24
I will admit, first of all, that I haven't heard a terrible lot of ska. Perhaps all I've heard is this "third wave" that was mentioned. What I did, hear, however, I found to be uninteresting rhythmically, harmonically, and timbrally.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: IronOxide on 28 May 2006, 18:44
I am a big fan of The Aquabats, Reel Big Fish, Save Ferris, The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, and select Catch 22.

SKA IS NOT DEAD TO ME YET!
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: tortillafactory on 28 May 2006, 23:32
I tend to dislike most ska because its sound is very jarring to me - I feel like it's rearranging my heartbeat with all those damn trombones. I hate really energetic jazz for the same reason.  [Naturally, my dad plays trombone.  I am truly cursed.]

I prefer music that has a traditional pattern to it, I guess.  Avant garde is great, but some rules are there for a reason - poetry that seems to end in the middle of a stanza just doesn't work, and neither does music that's just too random.  In my experience most ska tends to jump all over the place, cutting off notes in the middle and switching to an entirely different rhythm.  I would never voluntarily listen to the Bosstones, Goldfinger, or any of their ilk.

One of the reasons I wasn't terribly impressed with Sufjan Stevens was the strange beat of the title track.  I just couldn't get into it, because it set my teeth on edge.  (I do love "John Wayne Gacy Jr." though.)

The only ska song I have is Five Iron Frenzy's "My Evil Plan to Save the World," because it makes me smile - but even that has a sort of rhythm to it that kinda works.  Still has that intensely irritating brass, though...

(Though, I'd never think of TMBG as ska...is that really their classification?)
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: roint on 29 May 2006, 16:26
They Might Be Giants is totally not ska. They're indie pop with trumpets and various other jazzy instruments like saxophone.

I like some ska... like fishbone. Although a lot of their most well-known songs like Sunless Saturday are non-ska.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Maui on 30 May 2006, 07:13
i like some ska, but mostly because it is fun to listen/dance to.  I've been to one of Reel Big Fish's shows and plan on going to see them again in August.  I also like the Aquabats and some older Catch 22 eh.  

Also, I'd never even heard of the whole "zomg only christians like ska" theory until this thread........interesting.  All of my friends that like ska aren't christians, sooo.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: est on 30 May 2006, 08:11
Quote from: ImRonBurgundy?
the point i'm trying to make here is that ska IS NOT shitty poppy punk bands with horn sections and retarded lyrics.  it's just that those bands have somehow come to typify the genre, and it's frustrating for anyone who's really into the genre to hear it dismissed because of these shitty, stupid bands that are essentially ruining the entire genre.  it would be akin to basing your opinion of all metal on Bon Jovi and Slipknot.


This is a pretty good point, so I am quoting it in its entirety.

Also, I didn't think that Fishbone would be called Ska, I'd always thought of it as a kind of heavy funk.  The more you know, and all that.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: KharBevNor on 30 May 2006, 09:27
Quote from: Maui

Also, I'd never even heard of the whole "zomg only christians like ska" theory until this thread........interesting.  All of my friends that like ska aren't christians, sooo.


Leftover Crack would seem to like ska and, well, they're DEFINITELY not Christians.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Luke C on 30 May 2006, 10:44
Good ska (The Specials for example) is really awesome. Good to listen to.

Bad ska is for bad kids who cant play jazz or blues.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Aneurhythmia on 30 May 2006, 11:25
Quote from: est
Also, I didn't think that Fishbone would be called Ska, I'd always thought of it as a kind of heavy funk.  The more you know, and all that.

They manage ska, funk, and prog metal among other things quite well.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Kai on 30 May 2006, 13:04
Quote from: KharBevNor
Quote from: Maui

Also, I'd never even heard of the whole "zomg only christians like ska" theory until this thread........interesting.  All of my friends that like ska aren't christians, sooo.


Leftover Crack would seem to like ska and, well, they're DEFINITELY not Christians.


REALLY I COULDN'T GUESS


WILIKERS


I've seen Propagandhi called Ska, and they're certainly not very religious either.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: negative creep on 30 May 2006, 16:54
most people i know who like ska are not really religious or even anti-religious.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: timehat on 30 May 2006, 17:35
Don't you know those ska bands from Scandinavia that like blow up churches and shit?
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: Aneurhythmia on 30 May 2006, 17:39
Quote from: timehat
Don't you know those ska bands from Scandinavia that like blow up churches and shit?

Do you still have Grant's trumpet?  We're moving to Sweden.
Title: Ska is inherently faulty?
Post by: bassbone on 31 May 2006, 00:04
Quote from: tortillafactory
I tend to dislike most ska because its sound is very jarring to me - I feel like it's rearranging my heartbeat with all those damn trombones. I hate really energetic jazz for the same reason.  [Naturally, my dad plays trombone.  I am truly cursed.]


You know Mozart used the trombone to represent God in his works. Yeah, I'm not a trombone player or anything.

Back to the thread... If it weren't for ska I probably would never have discovered my musical aptitude and become a music major. I owe ska a debt and if I'm driving down the road, there's nothing better than some loud Reel Big Fish to ease the way. Relaxing at night? Gotta be the Skatalites or Hepcat. Just listening to music? Let's Go Bowling. Seriously, there are some really good talented bands out there. And yes, I believe dismissing an entire genre as juvenile and a musical joke is both shortsighted and bigoted. Give ska a chance. That's all I am saying.