THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: FireStarter on 03 Dec 2006, 08:38
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Muse
Yes
There I started go at it...I will explain as soon as my caffine kicks in again, and I can be intelligent and semi-coherent again. >pre fires clotheslining any rapier jests that come his way, silenced m4 ftw<
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I like post rock and I am comfortable with that
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If anything I listen to is pretentious, I balance that out with a healthy dose of Andrew W.K.
WE DO WHAT WE LIKE
AND WE LIKE
WHAT WE
DO
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Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees irony in Johnny's post.
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Who are you?
I really like The Exploding Hearts, speaking of kind of pretentious. Only pretentious because they are all dead.
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I'm not sure what you're implying. Are you implying that I find I Get Wet to be an album full of stupid but consistently catchy music in an ironic sense, or that Andrew W.K. is pretentious? The gentleman who wrote a song called "Party Til You Puke"?
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Dude I really like having sex on crack. The pipe really gives you that extra boost, you know?
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dude I don't do "crack" I do DXM and Benatrippin'
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As a former heavy user, DXM is the dumbest highschool bullshit drug ever.
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I have nothing against drugs, just the idiots that use them.
I swear the drugged up skaters were the stupidest wastes of flesh ever.
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Disagreed!
If you are good at drugs, then you are good at existance.
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I listen to a great deal of bands that many folks here would consider to be "pretentious." My valid reason being that I really like them and I enjoy the music they make. Since when do you have to justify liking a band more than that?
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Since people started judging each other like infinity years ago
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I LIKE TOOL D00D THEY R AMAZING I DONT THINK THEIR PRETENSIUS BUT OTHER PEOPLE DO BUT IF YOURE BAND IS THAT AMAZING HOW CAN U B PRETENSIUS
JUST LISTEN TO THEYRE LYRICS AND HTHEIR AMAZING MUSICIANSHIP ES;ECIALLY THE DRUMMER I MEAN DAMN WHEN I FIRST HERD HIM I WAS LIKE HOLY CHRIST FUCK ME SEVEN WAYS TO SUNDAY
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I like your username.
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The Decemberists, Augie March, The Mountain Goats, Hold Steady.... thats if we're going by number of literary references per song
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Claiming the Decemberists as a pretentious band you like is the musical equivilant of being really impressed with yourself for being ahead of the curve and picking up the Da Vinci Code at your local Barnes and Noble
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The second you say that you like a band for their drummer you are essentially condemning that band for the better part of eternity. Just saying.
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Claiming the Decemberists as a pretentious band you like is the musical equivilant of being really impressed with yourself for being ahead of the curve and picking up the Da Vinci Code at your local Barnes and Noble
I didn't say I just got into them. I didn't say they were obscure. I said I like them and some people would consider them pretentious due to their overly-literate nature. Same would go for Joanna Newsom.
The stuff i'm into is pretentious lyrically and not musically.
Colin Meloy is a better writer then Dan Brown, but that goes without saying
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i really try not to sweat pretentiousness, but sometimes it can't be helped.
muse: what radiohead would sound like if thom yorke hadn't been called "salamander" as a child. also the dude has a fucking kaoss pad on his guitar, that negates any valid reason he could possibly have to be pretentious.
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From what I've heard of Muse (1 song) I have to say: Muse is adorable.
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If your going by number of literary references per song, then the Bloodhound Gang is up there with the most pretentious, and they are anything but. Don't believe me? Check this out Asleep at the Wheel (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Asleep-At-The-Wheel-lyrics-Bloodhound-Gang/25981FDC40EB77B2482568C7000A9F86) and stfu up I just googled "Asleep at the Wheel" and picked one of the myriad of lyrics sites out there...I was expecting someone to mock me because of my use of sing365....a shitty website, but useful.
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The second you say that you like a band for their drummer you are essentially condemning that band for the better part of eternity. Just saying.
Rush, Led Zeppelin, Cream.
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I think he means that if you only like a band for their drummer. Led Zeppelin, Rush, and Cream have other very good musicians in them.
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The phrases 'Bullshit' and 'Highschool' can be applied to all drugs as far as I'm concerned.
iawtc
I like your username. (to Scrambled Gregs, presumably)
iawtc2
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Claiming the Decemberists as a pretentious band you like is the musical equivilant of being really impressed with yourself for being ahead of the curve and picking up the Da Vinci Code at your local Barnes and Noble
I didn't say I just got into them. I didn't say they were obscure. I said I like them and some people would consider them pretentious due to their overly-literate nature. Same would go for Joanna Newsom.
The stuff i'm into is pretentious lyrically and not musically.
Colin Meloy is a better writer then Dan Brown, but that goes without saying
I find the pirate gimmick pretentious, and that's why I like The Crane Wife. They really toned it down and I can actually...you know, get past Colin's voice.
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Muse has no right to be pretentious. Hell, Yes doesn't either for that matter.
The following bands do, however:
-Radiohead
-Sigur Ros
-The National
-Morrissey
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I think he means that if you only like a band for their drummer. Led Zeppelin, Rush, and Cream have other very good musicians in them.
Correct on two counts, even if I don't like Zep that much.
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If you are good at drugs, then you are good at existance.
Hooray!
Also, how do Morrisey and Radiohead get a free pass on being pretentious, but Yes doesn't?
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So pretentiousness is a false or excessive claim to greatness or importance. Why is that a good quality for a band to have?
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Disagreed!
If you are good at drugs, then you are good at existance.
I don't know where to begin. This post makes me despair so much I can't even bring myself to argue.
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Disagreed!
If you are good at drugs, then you are good at existance.
I don't know where to begin. This post makes me despair so much I can't even bring myself to argue.
No, he's right. It's just that being good at drugs involves knowing when not to take them, and taking them seriously (possibly even religiously), and stuff like that. Being good at drugs and doing them all the time are mutually exclusive. However, being good at drugs is such a boost to life (as hard as it is to do, and as risky as it is to try), that his statement really does hold.
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iawtc
iawtc2
iawtc?
I am World Trade Center?
I ate wet tasty cranberries?
I attack wild terrible creatures?
I articulate while teasing cats?
Igor ambles with tesla coils?
I am with that comment?
edit:
googled. I am with that comment was pretty close. I agree with this comment.
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No, he's right. It's just that being good at drugs involves knowing when not to take them, and taking them seriously (possibly even religiously), and stuff like that. Being good at drugs and doing them all the time are mutually exclusive. However, being good at drugs is such a boost to life (as hard as it is to do, and as risky as it is to try), that his statement really does hold.
Terribly agreed!
It seems that most peoples definiton of being pretentious nowadays is simply being intellectual. It is obvious, of course, that bands should always dumb themselves down lyrically, musically and conceptually to the lowest common denominator. I personally want absolutely every song I hear to be about either how much the singer is longing for some girl or boy, how the singer is going to stay with some boy or girl, how the boy or girl in question was a complete cunt so the singer left him, or partying. Any band that tries to tackle a concept or theme more advanced than this, or attempts to use any sort of literary or poetic devices in their music whatsoever, or seriously experiments with form, or aims for virtuousic levels of musicianship, is clearly an awful band and nobody should ever have anything to do with them. Unless of course they have tight trousers and flock of seagulls haircuts, in which case they are pure unabashed geniuses.
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I think you could have said it far more succinctly, by saying that it is perfectly obvious that all the music in the world should either be ripping off pre-revolver Beatles, or Andrew W.K.
Actually I get the sarcasm there, but I could probably live with that for a few months quite comfortably.
I understand this makes me a bad person.
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No, he's right. It's just that being good at drugs involves knowing when not to take them, and taking them seriously (possibly even religiously), and stuff like that. Being good at drugs and doing them all the time are mutually exclusive. However, being good at drugs is such a boost to life (as hard as it is to do, and as risky as it is to try), that his statement really does hold.
Terribly agreed!
It seems that most peoples definiton of being pretentious nowadays is simply being intellectual. It is obvious, of course, that bands should always dumb themselves down lyrically, musically and conceptually to the lowest common denominator. I personally want absolutely every song I hear to be about either how much the singer is longing for some girl or boy, how the singer is going to stay with some boy or girl, how the boy or girl in question was a complete cunt so the singer left him, or partying. Any band that tries to tackle a concept or theme more advanced than this, or attempts to use any sort of literary or poetic devices in their music whatsoever, or seriously experiments with form, or aims for virtuousic levels of musicianship, is clearly an awful band and nobody should ever have anything to do with them. Unless of course they have tight trousers and flock of seagulls haircuts, in which case they are pure unabashed geniuses.
the way i see pretentiousness is when a band does outrageous things in the name of the band. for instance, trivium stating that they are the greatest guitarists in the world. (for fuck's sake, i wanna stab matt heafy in the EYE.) or Tenacious D (who i do enjoy) singing "the greatest song in the world" (which it turns out is Beelzeboss, off the newer album. you'd understand if you saw the movie) or bands that try really hard to make themselves look artsy fartsy, like The Mars Volta. That kinda thing.
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It is not the greatest song in the world, no-oh, it is just a tribute.
C'mon, you can hardly call that being pretentious - it is so obviously a pisstake, and humour is quite anti-pretentious.
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I confuse bands that are pretentious, and bands that are smart.
I mean, are those guys assholes, or are they well read?
That dude literate or is he showing off?
Does that musician REALLY like that book like he says he does in that song? Nah, I doubt he's even read it.
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It is not the greatest song in the world, no-oh, it is just a tribute.
C'mon, you can hardly call that being pretentious - it is so obviously a pisstake, and humour is quite anti-pretentious.
well, the whole joke part is how they're the greatest band in the world. which is why I say that. other bands joke about other things, tenacious d jokes about how awesome they are. especially if you've seen the hbo shows and the movie, it makes them seem really pretentious.
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I try not to worry about it. Most musicians have an inflated ego; it requires somewhat of an ego to make any kind of bold statement.
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SO, LET'S GETAPARTYGOIN'
(LET'S GETAPARTYGOIN')
NOW IT'S TIME TO PARTY AND WE'LL PARTY HARD
(PARTY HARD)
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whatabout pretentious bad bands?
e.g, Trivium, Slipknot, Dragonforce...
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*Andrew WK*
KICK IT!!!
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If you look at some of the things that Aaron Turner lists as lyrical inspirations - House of Leaves, Cervantes, Hassan-I-Sabbah, the works of Michel Foucalt just to name a few - then Isis can come across as rather pretentious. I don't really have a problem with that though; I started reading Discipline and Punish: The Birth Of Prison by Foucalt because of the reference by Isis. I'm all in favor of any form of art that can expand my horizons beyond the scope of what I already know. I think the difference between being pretentious and simply being literate comes in not trying to use your knowledge to bludgeon someone into thinking "HOLY SHIT THIS BAND MUST BE BRILLIANT!!!!!"
I know we had the pretentiousness discussion in another thread, but I figure I'll just post here rather than bump the old one.
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Since this is a topic about pretention, I thought I might as well post since here.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.brainiac/stuff/prog.htm
It is horribly offensive sometimes, especially to John Peel, but it still brings up some pretty interesting points.
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Speaking of pretentious literature, one of my buddies almost failed Honor's Seminar for using the word "betwixt" over 100 times in a 5 page paper.
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After I discovered the semicolon in high school, I somehow developed the erroneous belief that it could replace virtually every other punctuation mark and used it accordingly. Needless to say, the teacher's comment on the first essay I wrote after this watershed moment restored me to sanity.
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Since this is a topic about pretention, I thought I might as well post since here.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.brainiac/stuff/prog.htm
It is horribly offensive sometimes, especially to John Peel, but it still brings up some pretty interesting points.
The worst defense of the entire prog rock genre I have ever read. I mean hey, why try to prove your favorite bands are not pretentious when you can just imply that people who don't like your music don't like it because they are idiots or "don't get it." Any article that attacks Lester Bangs and John Peel to try to defend prog rock is automatically ill-founded and stupid. And I say that as someone who actually kind of likes prog rock!!
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I think that article was a joke.
it was kinda funny
and offensive
and funny
kinda
argh
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.brainiac/stuff/prog.htm
I think I can "categoris" this under "spectacular faliure."
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Since this is a topic about pretention, I thought I might as well post since here.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.brainiac/stuff/prog.htm
It is horribly offensive sometimes, especially to John Peel, but it still brings up some pretty interesting points.
Tarkus running over John Peel was hilarious
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Tarkus is always hilarious
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Dear person who wrote that article:
(http://mc.clintock.com/second_floor/bookcase_1/ICON-images/the_elements_of_style.jpg)
Merry Christmas.
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Why, I don't believe John Peel and Lester Bangs own "Dickhead" shirts at all!
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Well, I personally think Yes is awsome. Not that my opinion amounts for much here, well besides the fact that my opinion is like the biennale.py virus.
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Lordi they're hilariously over the top... but they're so good at it that it doesn't matter.
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Speaking of pretentious literature, one of my buddies almost failed Honor's Seminar for using the word "betwixt" over 100 times in a 5 page paper.
Best. Example. Ever?
Anyway, to go way back to the OP, why would you consider them "Pretentious?" I consider them to be comptetent musicians who write things I enjoy. No more, no less.
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Guys I really like a lot of post-Beatles John Lennon stuff. Although for his cover of "Peggy Sue," I can't entirely blame Mark David Chapman. That was atrocious and with the way Buddy Holly is spinning in his grave right now, you could harness that and produce vast amounts of electrical energy for the entire world to use.
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Since this is a topic about pretention, I thought I might as well post since here.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.brainiac/stuff/prog.htm
It is horribly offensive sometimes, especially to John Peel, but it still brings up some pretty interesting points.
As a fan of progressive rock and a member of the progressive rock community, I'd like to publicly state that that guy does not represent the opinions of... well, anyone not on crack.
Fuck.
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Pertaining to the original topic, Iron Maiden.
Because they're fucking Iron Maiden, obviously.
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i usually associate metal bands with being pretentious i.e all the crazy black metal we know and love,immortal we're looking at you, but last week i went and saw deicide and they were the total opposite. it seemed like glen benton was actually having fun.
but what about a band like bal sagoth with their song titles being like three lines long? is that pretentious or just imaginative?
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The only thing I can really think of as particularly pretentious Involving immortal is that photoshoot with Abbath scowling and adopting Rodin poses, sans corpsepaint and spikes, and sitting around a whopping great memorial to Edvard Grieg. Apart from that, I think that, based mainly on the video interviews I've seen, Immortal were mostly about getting drunk, dressing up like retarded orcs and singing kick-ass songs about the ALL DEVOURING FROSTFIRE DEMONSTORMS OF THE ULTIMATE CRYPTIC WINTERNOOOOOORTH.
I mean, in one interview, Abbath is asked to define black metal, and he stares at the camera very intently, obviously extremely drunk, and starts ticking off points on his fingers:
"Spiiiikes, leather...corpse paint...pine forests....*vaguely clasps at his arms and waves his hands up* armour...and spiiikes...cold...uhr..."
Then Horgh leans in to shot and says in a helpful tone of voice
"Norvay"
"JA! Norvay...and cold...winter...*more hand gestures* pine forests! *makes motions on his face* war paint! Evil! Yeah."
Man, I fucking love Immortal. So good.
*goes off and listens to 'Against the Tide (in the Arctic World)'*
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I LIKE TOOL D00D THEY R AMAZING I DONT THINK THEIR PRETENSIUS BUT OTHER PEOPLE DO BUT IF YOURE BAND IS THAT AMAZING HOW CAN U B PRETENSIUS
JUST LISTEN TO THEYRE LYRICS AND HTHEIR AMAZING MUSICIANSHIP ES;ECIALLY THE DRUMMER I MEAN DAMN WHEN I FIRST HERD HIM I WAS LIKE HOLY CHRIST FUCK ME SEVEN WAYS TO SUNDAY
And your favorite band is...?
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I love The Mars Volta my damn self.
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GET A ROOM YOU TWO
JEEZ
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Hey! Don't you judge us! Our love is on display and you can just choose to look away!
*makes squishy sound*
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I went to a gig this year where they came on, played 2 straight hours of music and just left without saying a word, not even a "thank you" or a bow or anything :) I felt so snubbed, it was great!
That's downright offensive. They have a saxophone player/bongo player and do wanky ridiculous garbage without acknowledging the crowd? They might as well release a video of them rehearsing for two hours onto Pay Per View and charge fifty dollars a viewing.
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Pretty funny if you consider ATDI.
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I looks like no one has mentioned GYBE yet. They are probably the most pretentious band I've ever heard, but they are pretty good. I don't find pretention all that annoying, really. I would also add the usual crew, Isis, Sigur Ros, Pelican, most Post-Rock, Radiohead, etc.
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Therion are fast becomming one of my favorite bands and I'm getting sick of people writing them off as being pretentious and boring just because there music is orchestral.
I got their dvd boxed set for christmas and as I've spent the last week imersing myself in six discs of awesomeness (is that a word???). I've come to a realisation, if being in a magical order, having a love of all things Mystical, Wagner and Celtic Frost makes you pretentious then I don't give a fuck because they are damn awesome. I'm eagerly awaiting the relase of Gothic Kabbalah, in about 3 weeks.
Anyway it's new years and I'm of to get frightfully drunk...
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Oh, I didn't mention Manowar. I love Manowar! They have a valid reason to be pretensious- They are awesome.
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Pretention is no excuse for fucking godawful album covers though.
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WHAT
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I think he's talking about the "Into Glory Ride" cover.
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I actually find that cover less silly than all the cartoon he-man sort of covers.
HOLY SHIT THIS GUY CAN HOLD A HAMMER IN ONE HAND AND A SWORD IN THE OTHER
Never mind a hammer is a two handed weapon.
POORLY RESEARCHED, MANOWAR.
I DEDUCT 5 FROM YOUR HITPOINTS TALLY
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THE GUY IS SO FUCKING KRIEG HE ONLY NEEDS ONE HAND TO HOLD THE HAMMER WITH
HE BRINGS WAR AND DEATH AMBIDEXTROUSLY
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I can type ambidextrously. Does that make me krieg?
KAPSLOKK OMG GUYZ
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Therion are fast becomming one of my favorite bands and I'm getting sick of people writing them off as being pretentious and boring just because there music is orchestral.
Therion are brilliant, but they are somewhat pretentious. I mean, read the liner notes to 'Three Ships of Berik'.
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Which part are you refering to, the history stuff or the "reinissance of the gothic spirit" part...
I'm pretty sure that was written by Thomas Karlsson.
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Yeah, the Renaissance of the gothic spirit bit. Well, all of it to be honest.
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yeah i'll admit that made me chuckle a bit when I first read it. Still don't think its a valid reason for people to avoid listening to them though...
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Indeed not.
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Who are you?
I really like The Exploding Hearts, speaking of kind of pretentious. Only pretentious because they are all dead.
I love the Exploding Hearts. and you're terrible...y hilarious. "Im a pretender" is such a classic track.
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I think the only band in the world I can think of who rightfully deserves being called "pretentious" is Coheed and Cambria. They are literally like a Rush cover band on a junior high school science fiction story. And this is coming from someone who enjoys Rush in moderation.
I'm sick of GY!BE being called pretentious. It's a complete misuse of the term. Pretentious means "aspiring to a deeper meaning than you can have". GY!BE have never aspired to a much deeper meaning than "The world is fucked up, and we're smoking a lot of cigarettes because of it." And you only get that from their LINER NOTES, the actual music itself, a handful of spoken-word samples aside, makes no statement whatsoever.
Also: Andrew W.K. rocks. And you cannot question his street cred because he is pals with Will Oldham.
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Just about every post-1997 country musician *ever* is pretentious as hell and not even close to being worth listening to, because they're all just doing horrible jobs of stealing from Joe Diffie and Alan Jackson. Joe Diffie is semi-pretentious and definitely worth listening to, although I doubt many of you would like his music. And as for Alan Jackson, he knows he's a simple country boy and that he couldn't be pretentious if he tried.
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Just about every post-1997 country musician *ever* is pretentious as hel
Surely not Hank Williams III. I don't see how he's pretentious at all.
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I think the only band in the world I can think of who rightfully deserves being called "pretentious" is Coheed and Cambria. They are literally like a Rush cover band on a junior high school science fiction story. And this is coming from someone who enjoys Rush in moderation.
I'm sick of GY!BE being called pretentious. It's a complete misuse of the term. Pretentious means "aspiring to a deeper meaning than you can have". GY!BE have never aspired to a much deeper meaning than "The world is fucked up, and we're smoking a lot of cigarettes because of it." And you only get that from their LINER NOTES, the actual music itself, a handful of spoken-word samples aside, makes no statement whatsoever.
By your definition, Coheed and Cambria aren't pretentious. You just contradicted your self. ...I think.
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I didn't contradict myself - Coheed and Cambria aspire to a deeper meaning than is plausible by attaching, with such utter seriousness, that bloated ridicuous story to their entire body of work.
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Surely not Hank Williams III. I don't see how he's pretentious at all.
He's pre-'97. I'm talking about the massive chunk of country 'musicians' that came into the country scene beginning with Shania Twain. Fuck that chick, she single-handedly destroyed country music and made it another manufactured genre.
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Er, no, the first Hank Williams III album came out in '99.
I understand your point but I think you're generalising a bit much - you're talking about "mainstream" Nashville country, which is hardly all there is to country.
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I didn't contradict myself - Coheed and Cambria aspire to a deeper meaning than is plausible by attaching, with such utter seriousness, that bloated ridicuous story to their entire body of work.
That's impossible. That means every single writer of fantasy is pretentious. Period.
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That's impossible. That means every single writer of fantasy is pretentious. Period.
No, it doesn't, because not every fantasy or sci-fi author writes godawful ridiculous "complex" bloated nonsensical epics. I'm not a big fan of fantasy but Terry Pratchett or Robin Hobb could scarcely be realistically compared to the Coheed and Cambria story.
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Right, you're confusing what you don't like with what's "bad", and what you like with "good", I'm not going to have this debate. *turns up the volume on "Welcome Home"*
On that note, if writing songs based on complext fantasy/sci-fi stories is pretentious, I freakin' love pretentiousness. XD
Let's see, that would make...
Blind Guardian
Iced Earth
Amorphis[Well, technicly folklore...]
Dream Theater[Scenes from a Memory for this subject, and I suppose they're accused of being pretentious for others.]
Demons & Wizards
Kamelot
Synmhony X
Evergrey
In Flames[Whoracle was a concept CD, that's what I'm refering to.]
Queensryche[Mindcrime, anyone?]
Coheed & Cambria
No, seriously, pretentious obviously translates from "bad" in most people's languages to "good" in mine. This gives me a whole new perspective.
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Its funny, even though I like almost all those bands in your list, and I am a fan of pretentious music by your definition, and the concept album, I really can't stand Scenes from a Memory.
I just do not think it is a good album. (Six Degrees for excellence!)
Oh god, Dovey is going to fucking KILL me.
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(Six Degrees for excellence!)
I'm so calling it that, now.
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Six Degrees was the album that got me into Dream Theater but I'd say Falling into Infinity is their best album
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Right, you're confusing what you don't like with what's "bad", and what you like with "good"
No, I'm not saying I dislike Coheed and Cambria for being pretentious. I dislike them because they sound bad. I like bands that other people claim are pretentious.
I believe you are the one confusing what you don't like with what is "bad" and what you do like with what is "good" (which is a perfectly valid stance to take, given the purely subjective nature of art).
I admit it is possible that someone, somewhere, actually finds the C&C story to be meaningful. I am also aware that some people think Robert Jordan is a great writer.
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Dream Theater sucks...
Six Degrees is definitely their best. The Great Debate... ooh I like.
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Its funny, even though I like almost all those bands in your list, and I am a fan of pretentious music by your definition, and the concept album, I really can't stand Scenes from a Memory.
I just do not think it is a good album. (Six Degrees for excellence!)
Oh god, Dovey is going to fucking KILL me.
Damn right I am. You wait til you get home, young man.