THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => ENJOY => Topic started by: elcapitan on 05 Dec 2006, 14:59
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This makes me feel deeply, deeply unhappy and upset.
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/jesus%20camp/video/xqtjw_jesus-camp
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I saw it a few weeks ago - truly terrifying.
The stats in the blurb are a bit off though: the "Evangelical community" is nowhere near 50% of Americans, more like 10-15% (but since they tend to vote as a very cohesive bloc, they are quite a force in politics).
But it is quite the understatement to say that more Americans believe in angels than in evolution - I think the polls come up pretty consistently as 12-15% for evolution, 50-60% for creationism, and the rest for both. Though to be fair I don't know how much overlap there is between belief in creationism and actual "angels".
That 12-15% figure is always truly humbling.
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The kid with the mullet who was in the trailer utterly terrifies me. I mean, what the hell?
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If Jesus Christ does exist, then he is currently weeping.
Let me give you a clue, he is not weeping about Harry Potter.
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The camp has closed because of the movie.
I can't find the article, but apparently the founder had links to white supremacists as well.
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Best moment of the movie - Pastor Ted Haggard spouting vitriol into the camera about homosexuality.
Hypocrisy!
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The video has been taken down.
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Let me compress it into four words.
Fundamentalist.
Indoctrination.
Of.
Children.
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You can still find the movie on that site, just split up in to five parts.
It's really horrible and scary. As far as I'm concerned, these children have been destroyed by the people they put the most trust in. It's one of the most evil things I've ever seen.
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I am simultaneously horrified and amused. This quote just had me cracking up laughing, and then after about the fifth time I'd watched that one bit, I realized it was actually quite fucking terrifying.
(Emphasis on EXTREME added by myself for extra comic effect)
"This is an EXTREME generation, and we can either give them an EXTREME relationship with Christ, or they're going to find something EXTREME somewhere else."
Because if Jesus isn't EXTREME enough, the only logical alternative is Satan, right?
Fucking hell.
Also whoever the parents of that mullet/mohawk/ponytailed kid is, they deserve to be locked up for child cruelty, and allowing their son to be a little mouthy bastard.
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Sweeet crispy christ. I am baffled and do not know what to say. I weep for the future...
All those people need to take a fucking rhetoric course. And really..can you say CULT?
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Videos and such like that really freak me out and upset me. I consider myself an Evangelic Christian for the most part but stuff like that... I hate that my religion is portrayed like by many of it's followers, because we're not all like that. I don't understand why the people of my religion can't just... I don't know, feed the homeless and help out prostitutes and stuff like Jesus did. Heaven forbid we Christians do what Christ actually told us to do. Crazy ass camp turning kids into hateful psychos.
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Found parts 2-5 on there...cant see no 1 though!
Jus checkin them out now! Seems strange from what i have seen aready!
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Videos and such like that really freak me out and upset me. I consider myself an Evangelic Christian for the most part but stuff like that... I hate that my religion is portrayed like by many of it's followers, because we're not all like that. I don't understand why the people of my religion can't just... I don't know, feed the homeless and help out prostitutes and stuff like Jesus did. Heaven forbid we Christians do what Christ actually told us to do. Crazy ass camp turning kids into hateful psychos.
This is the kind of Christianity that we could do with more of (although I still have some issues with some parts of it, but that's another story). Basically, if you follow the Golden Rule - "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" or "Love one another as I have love you" or whatever the proper formulation is - and say to hell with the rest of the Bible, you're a much better Christian than probably 90% of them.
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Videos and such like that really freak me out and upset me. I consider myself an Evangelic Christian for the most part but stuff like that... I hate that my religion is portrayed like by many of it's followers, because we're not all like that. I don't understand why the people of my religion can't just... I don't know, feed the homeless and help out prostitutes and stuff like Jesus did. Heaven forbid we Christians do what Christ actually told us to do. Crazy ass camp turning kids into hateful psychos.
The problem is that the crazy psychos yell louder, even if they're in the minority they're the most activist part of any faith, so they affect the most legislation and they're the group most people hear from.
This is the kind of Christianity that we could do with more of (although I still have some issues with some parts of it, but that's another story). Basically, if you follow the Golden Rule - "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" or "Love one another as I have love you" or whatever the proper formulation is - and say to hell with the rest of the Bible, you're a much better Christian than probably 90% of them.
I feel like this is a good intentioned idea, my concern with this sentiment is that it is replacing absolutism of one sort for absolutism of another sort. You'll wind up with groups of people preaching hate against people who don't practice the golden rule. Sort of like how people justify killing abortion doctors in order to stop what they feel is more killing, they feel that they're carrying out God's work and the normal rules don't apply.
Absolutism is at the core of all fundamentalism, especially the violence. If you tried to have a theological conversation with these people about say, homoousis, they'd have no clue what you're talking about because the theological basis for the dogma they preach is limited to a handful of handpicked passages which they see as the absolute truth and feel justified in protecting/enforcing by any means.
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Hate is against the golden rule - anyone who starts hating on those who don't follow it isn't actually following it in the first place, so they're just as bad as the bad ones now. (Also, I wish to clarify that I am not in any shape or form Christian, so this doesn't apply to me.)
Also, I learned a new word today! Homoousis! I did not know there was a special word for the doctrine of the trinity.
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I dislike how wikipedia links it directly to the Trinity. It would be better to say that the word is part of that doctrine, it helps describe the nature of the Trinity.
Homoousia refers to the one divine essence (ousia) shared by the three distinct persons (hypostasis) of the trinity. Basically it is saying that the nature of God and of the Trinity is one being, represented by three distinct persons separated by only their relationship with each other.
The Nicene Creed summarizes the belief.
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Hate is against the golden rule - anyone who starts hating on those who don't follow it isn't actually following it in the first place, so they're just as bad as the bad ones now.
I meant to reply to this earlier, I apologize for the double post.
Your post, if you'll forgive me for calling it this, is naive in it's rationality. In a perfect world that would be true, but we're talking about irrational people, who have such faith in their absolutist ideas that they believe they're here on earth to do God's work, and so his rules don't apply to him. Like I said, it is why people who quote the Bible and say "Though Shalt Not Kill" to women having abortions, will turn around and kill abortion doctors, or strap a bomb to themselves. In their mind, the need to do God's work supersedes the need to obey the commandment against killing.
We're not talking about your average run of the mill religious person, who takes their sacred texts as a whole, and probably not literally. We're talking about people who will pick and choose and become blind to everything that argues against what they do, even if it's from the same sacred text.
It's unfortunate, but true, and it applies to just about every fundamentalist nut out there, of any religion (hell, there are secular fundies too, same rules tend to apply).
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I have been sick, so that is why this took me so long to get back on this.
I think we are both saying the same thing from different positions - absolutism and fundamentalism is wrong. (And neither is compatible with the Golden Rule, either.)
Basically, christian fundamentalists are BAD christians. They ignore the important bits - like the whole message of love and non-judging and whatnot that was pretty much the key of what Jesus said - and concentrate on the bits that allow them to exercise their hate while having the blessing of the Bible.
I wasn't talking about the fundamentalists, but rather that small minority of practicing/believing Christians who actually listen to what Jesus said and put that into practice, rather than the hateful disgusting perversion of christianity that fundamentalism is.
(The same argument, like you said, can be used against every other religion/belief with just a few changes of words.)