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Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Disgruntled Jack on 22 May 2007, 17:55

Title: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Disgruntled Jack on 22 May 2007, 17:55
Okay, so, I've always been one of those people who thought that goths looked really stupid and that music that talked about killing people was for no.

Then I happened to listen to Voltaire's album Devil's Bris on Musicmatch Jukebox (Sort fo an off-brand iTunes)

...and I liked it. I mean, I really liked it. Somehow the idea of music that could give me nightmares is really appealing to me now.

Does this mean I have to wear makeup and black and fishnets and leathe rand such, or...what?
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: KharBevNor on 22 May 2007, 18:30
Voltaire is kind of cool. I wouldn't deign to really call him goth though. I think the man himself would probably be the first to agree with me.

You're not goth until you like the following ten bands:

Alien Sex Fiend
Bauhaus
The Birthday Party
Christian Death
The Cure
Joy Division
London After Midnight
The  Sisters of Mercy
Siouxsie and the Banshees
Virgin Prunes


If you like all the above bands you should consider getting some eyeliner.

Also, you should just generally consider actually reading something about goth.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: ScrambledGregs on 22 May 2007, 19:09
So liking certain bands makes you goth even if you don't dress like it?? I guess this means I must be a hipster even though I don't dress like a douchebag, since I like 'indie' bands.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: amok on 22 May 2007, 19:21
So liking certain bands makes you goth even if you don't dress like it?

Yeah. Goth isn't actually defined by the black eyeliner, it's a musical thing.

Also, since I've seen it in so many threads recently (forum title notwithstanding), what is a hipster anyway?
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Disgruntled Jack on 22 May 2007, 19:24
Voltaire is kind of cool. I wouldn't deign to really call him goth though. I think the man himself would probably be the first to agree with me.

You're not goth until you like the following ten bands:

Alien Sex Fiend
Bauhaus
The Birthday Party
Christian Death
The Cure
Joy Division
London After Midnight
The  Sisters of Mercy
Siouxsie and the Banshees
Virgin Prunes


If you like all the above bands you should consider getting some eyeliner.

Also, you should just generally consider actually reading something about goth.
I would just like to say that about two-thirds of those band names are giving me some really weird mental images.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: redphoenix11 on 22 May 2007, 19:38
Voltaire is kind of cool. I wouldn't deign to really call him goth though. I think the man himself would probably be the first to agree with me.

You're not goth until you like the following ten bands:

Alien Sex Fiend
Bauhaus
The Birthday Party
Christian Death
The Cure
Joy Division
London After Midnight
The Sisters of Mercy
Siouxsie and the Banshees
Virgin Prunes


If you like all the above bands you should consider getting some eyeliner.

Also, you should just generally consider actually reading something about goth.

Shit, I listen to most of those bands. I also listen Killing Joke and The Mission. Then again, I like post-punk in general.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Gridgm on 22 May 2007, 21:50
The Birthday Party

are we talking about the nick cave band here or something obscure that only you've heard of...cause i really can't classify the nick cave band as goth
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Ballard on 22 May 2007, 22:47
No Gridgm, you have it correct. They're post punk, more than goth, but they can still be included on the list.

Dude, the term "goth" has been misused beyond recognition, just like "emo" has. There are kids at my school who listen to Trivium, Killswitch Engage, Senses Fail, etc. and call themselves goth.

I like the Wu-Tang Clan and Talib Kweli. Does that make me a gangsta?
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Cerulaetas on 22 May 2007, 22:48
So liking certain bands makes you goth even if you don't dress like it?? I guess this means I must be a hipster even though I don't dress like a douchebag, since I like 'indie' bands.

No, it is not "You are A if you like B." It is "You are not A until you like B."  To the second point, I believe Khar's post was kind of tongue in cheek, or to use a literary term, hyperbole - after all, you don't necessarily need to dress like a douchebag to be one.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: fish across face on 22 May 2007, 23:02
Also, since I've seen it in so many threads recently (forum title notwithstanding), what is a hipster anyway?
"Hipster" is one of those useless rhetorical expressions that you don't really need to give a shit about defining, like "politically correct".  It's only used to cast someone else in a negative light.

Cat and Girl both rule on the subject, as per usual.  http://catandgirl.com/view.php?loc=455
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: David_Dovey on 23 May 2007, 00:03
The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_%28contemporary_subculture%29) on hipsters is hilarious, and the discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_%28contemporary_subculture%29) even more so. Exactly what I expected it to be. Maybe someone should just replace it with a bunch of Cat and Girl "Hipster Scout" comics?
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Johnny C on 23 May 2007, 00:25
I like the Wu-Tang Clan and Talib Kweli. Does that make me a gangsta?
shit yeah muthafucka
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: kid_militia on 23 May 2007, 00:29
what about Fields of the Nephilim? Im not huge into goth, but I enjoy their stuff.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: redphoenix11 on 23 May 2007, 00:31
what about Fields of the Nephilim? Im not huge into goth, but I enjoy their stuff.

I'm pretty sure they were goth.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Ishotdanieljohnston on 23 May 2007, 01:16
The Cure and Joy Division goth? Really? I mean sure Robert Smith does look like Eddie Scissorsands... but that is very happy music... like the love cats is hardly drenched in misery.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Gridgm on 23 May 2007, 03:16
The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_%28contemporary_subculture%29) on hipsters is hilarious, and the discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_%28contemporary_subculture%29) even more so. Exactly what I expected it to be. Maybe someone should just replace it with a bunch of Cat and Girl "Hipster Scout" comics?

from the discussion page

the Hipster insult is a subclass of the insult poseur
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: The extra letter on 23 May 2007, 03:52
The Cure and Joy Division goth? Really? I mean sure Robert Smith does look like Eddie Scissorsands... but that is very happy music... like the love cats is hardly drenched in misery.

Pornography and Disintegration aren't exactly cheerful albums, though.

Hell, most of Alien Sex Fiend's stuff is kind of happy. Or if not happy, at least up-beat if extremely crazed. Same as Specimen's stuff, really.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: McTaggart on 23 May 2007, 05:24
You know goths can be happy right?
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: epifreak on 23 May 2007, 10:06
Funny, I remember back in Jr. High, when all the nu-metal kiddies were considered goths.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Johnny C on 23 May 2007, 11:04
Joy Division goth? Really?
Oh heavens yes.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: redphoenix11 on 23 May 2007, 15:09
Joy Division goth? Really?
Oh heavens yes.

I've never considered Joy Division to be full-on goth. I've always considered them more proto-goth since they influenced post-punk as a whole.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: ScrambledGregs on 23 May 2007, 16:38
Joy Division goth? Really?
Oh heavens yes.

I've never considered Joy Division to be full-on goth. I've always considered them more proto-goth since they influenced post-punk as a whole.

Joy Division are retconned goth.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: !!!CPAOI!!! on 23 May 2007, 21:08
You know goths can be happy right?

Lies!
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: KharBevNor on 24 May 2007, 02:07
Fields of the Nephilim formed in 1984, putting them definitely in the second wave of goth, as in a band that deliberately, from the outset, chose to be goth and remained so as part of a defined subculture.

As for points about goth and post-punk...goth IS post-punk. Joy Division were the first band ever to be referred to as 'gpthic'. The Cure and the Banshees were absolutely instrumental in defining goths look, with Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux being the male and female prototypes respectively. There is a sort of magic period between about 1980 and 1982 where what you call goth, post-punk or no-wave is really all a matter of personal taste in a lot of cases. I could certainly make the case that the Birthday Party were all three simultaneously. As for happiness in goth music...oh come on. You're kidding right? The veritable theme tune of the whole subculture is a novelty dub track about Bela Lugosi (and whether is dead, not dead or undead). The NME, still inflated by their success in the late 70's, tried to call the whole genre 'positive punk'. Like the previous 'Gothic revival' of the Mid 18th to early 19th century, and the better classic Universal Horror films, the whole thing was, indeed in the better circles is, really just a studied exercise in high camp and kitsch, with some great music and clothes thrown in. An excuse to drink absinthe by the bottle, dance like a broken street-sweeper and pretend to be a vampire in an atmisphere of comfortably disinterested artistic introspection. The real arseholes, the glum, over-serious forced depressives who view self-harm as a mark of status, who wear the black as a uniform, who seriously think that 'goth points' and other such satirical constructs actually exist, and think the Sisters of Mercy were being serious didn't turn up mostly until about 1990, and the really brutal perversions didn't come about until the whole concept started disseminating itself outside the major American cities in the (largely) pre-internet age. Goth is a state of mind more than anything, musical taste being somewhat important and fashion sense, in the scheme of things, the least...and the first and only rule is that a real goth never, ever calls themself goth unless they're joking.

Nu metal kiddies are about as far from the original denizens of the slimelight club as bonobo monkeys are from the Neitzschean ubermensch.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Scytale on 24 May 2007, 02:28
As much as I don't want to lower the interlectual tone of the thread I'm obliged to post this


http://www.epsilonminus.com/darquedungeon/

Oh and Khar's comparison of a Monkey to the Ubermensch was amusing I was conjuring up all sorts of images of a Simian swinging across Neitszche metaphorical rope over the abyss.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: KharBevNor on 24 May 2007, 02:32
Oh fuck yeah! I was actually looking for that comic just two weeks ago. For some reason possibly pertaining for his new-found love for legal action very few of the good anti-Chick sites have been updated in a couple of years. *bookmarks*

On the metaphorical tight-rope over the abyss, the bonobo stopped somewhere in the middle to have a wank and has never been heard of since.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: fish across face on 24 May 2007, 02:35
Hahahaha love the Front 242 lyrics in the club in that comic. :D
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: Scytale on 24 May 2007, 02:48
This ones almost as good

http://www.epsilonminus.com/godhatesthescene/
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: amok on 24 May 2007, 05:36
Haha, that's amazing.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: !!!CPAOI!!! on 24 May 2007, 07:37
I just recently realized what Johnny C's user name is related to.  That's pretty disturbing.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: KharBevNor on 24 May 2007, 12:35
It's not, actually. I asked him this question before. He's never even read JTHM.
Title: Re: I think I may be secretly Goth O_o
Post by: !!!CPAOI!!! on 24 May 2007, 22:01
I'm not sure whether I'm relieved or bummed out.