THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: SeanBateman on 11 Jun 2007, 11:30
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Aside from the single, the album as a whole is pretty weak. Yummy has a really really good hook, but most of the songs are just really bland pop music. I'm gonna give it another listen before I reach any real decision though.
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I love your avatar.
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I'm completely unsurprised. She mostly brings the hooks for her singles but the last album had a ton of low-grade filler along with the gold.
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Woo-hoo!
Yee-hoo!
I'm getting really sick of hearing this damn song two or three times a day. Working in radio sucks sometimes.
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I hated the single the first time I heard it, but it's grown on me to an alarming degree. Now That You Got It is actually pretty great too, it only goes bad when she starts rapping towards the end.
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I cannot STAND her new single. Most irritating hook.
And the previous one was horrific too. Totally avoided any semblance of melody. It wasn't tuneless per se - it seemed to deliberately AVOID being in tune, especially with the samples included with the song.
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Didn't the Marilyn Manson thread have pee jokes in it by this point? Are you guys feeling okay?
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Spinless, the difference is this is a serious thread about a serious record.
One that has been growing on me quite a bit, actually. I am up to at least 5 songs I really like, and more that are decent.
Bet on "Now that You Got IT" as the next single.
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Did someone just imply that Gwen Stefani should be taken seriously?
I am completely fucking dumbfounded.
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"What You Waiting For" was an amazingly catchy, fun pop song, and I especially enjoyed the Jacque Lu Cont remix. Everything of her's that I've heard since then though has been fairly unremarkable.
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Is this a bizzaro universe or something? Marylin Manson and Gwen Stefani threads? Next it will be Britney spears... "no seriously guys she's some great musician". Please.
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Insert jim thome quote here.
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Spinless, the difference is this is a serious thread about a serious record.
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5129/gwenstefaniue2.png) (http://imageshack.us)
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Johnny, you are now officially one of my favorite people ever.
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I applaud you. Invitation to laugh deliriously accepted.
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"the album as a whole is pretty weak."
You say this as if it is an unexpected revelation.
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Johnny C,
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2071482/2/istockphoto_2071482_strongman.jpg)
(http://www.sportsmed-forum.com/sm_pic_snowboarding.jpg)
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JC said exactly what I was thinking much better that I could ever say it. The thing is, if we have people on the forums who are taking Gwen Stefani seriously and discussing her merits, we may as well have a thread about how talented a musician Britney Spears is. Gwen Stefani has absolutely NOTHING separating her from Britney Spears other than that she used to be in a band people thought was pretty neat. This supposedly gives her some sort of credibility as a talented musician?
I've heard some of her singles. They struck me as being degrading to women. Was she trying to be 'Ironic' or something? I'm not sure I understand...is she doing a 'Devo'?
In what world can Gwen Stefani's songs be taken seriously?
Please explain to me what I have missed. Help me to understand why you like this crock of shit.
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Insert jim thome quote here.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w256/SoxOGPictures/Dugout%20Banners/JimGwen.png)
There ya go.I applaud you. Invitation to laugh deliriously accepted.
Whoa, whoa, whoooooa! No one said anything about delirium. That's just going a wee bit far. Derisive laughing is all that's been authorized.
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Shit, I'd love Britney Spears to be discussed on here. At least she's not a musician.
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Is this a bizzaro universe or something? Marylin Manson and Gwen Stefani threads? Next it will be Britney spears... "no seriously guys she's some great musician". Please.
But she is!!!
SRIOUSLY JUST LISTEN WITH A OPN MIND OK
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The requires to bring up the age old debate 'Is a singer a musician?'
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The requires to bring up the age old debate 'Is a singer a musician?'
In some cases, eg. Garm from Ulver, Diamanda Galas, yes.
In Gwen's case, no, not really.
Fuck Gwen Stefani and her terrible music. Hollaback Girl is the worst song of the decade thus far, which is a pretty impressive feat. It loses on every single level.
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The requires to bring up the age old debate 'Is a singer a musician?'
Nah, don't do that, I can't shit-stir if you're going to go down that path!
How about... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism ...?
I've babbled about Hollaback Girl before on here ... I hate it, but it's much more inventive than, e.g. that Explosions In The Sky album that someone linked to recently.
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The requires to bring up the age old debate 'Is a singer a musician?'
Nah, don't do that, I can't shit-stir if you're going to go down that path!
How about... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism ...?
I've babbled about Hollaback Girl before on here ... I hate it, but it's much more inventive than, e.g. that Explosions In The Sky album that someone linked to recently.
Inventiveness doesn't mean goodness. I could shit onto a microphone, sample it and sing the Chinese National Anthem out of key over the top of it- it would be pretty unique and inventive, but it would still suck.
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guys why are there posts after johnny's
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Rockism is an awesomely huge pile of bullshit invented by someone the British musical press in the early eighties to justify to themselves why they liked Culture Club better than The Cult without having to come out of the closet, which no one gave a shit about, which then got briefly resurrected so contrarians could have an excuse not to like the Smiths after they released 'Panic', which then lay thankfully dormant before being resurrected 15 years later by two not particularly good New York music critics so they could get massive payola kickbacks from Justin Timberlakes record label and call that guy from the Magnetic Fields a nazi for not liking rap.
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How about the theory, then?
I'm not interested in it with regards to priviledging rock music, cos I've met plenty of rock-hating rockists, but more wrt placing value in authenticity, and in holding a narrow view of what authenticity entails.
Anyway, the point was to present one of the reasons that Spinless might not be able to entertain someone liking Gwen Stefani, and I think anti-rockism explains it.
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There's something to the theory, but what the whole idea of rockism fails to really explore is why people shouldn't put any value in authenticity, beyond the fact that that would mean that the anti-rockists favourite aritsts aren't valued. The main problem with the rockism epithet is that its pre-packaged opposition, popism (or poptimism or whatever), is fucking ghastly corporate cocksucking masquerading under a cover of equal opportunities for the music of minorities (blacks, gays and women, apparently), and the whole debate is insanely exclusionist. Where does classical, or folk, or industrial fit into the debate? The idea of rockism also casts fairly nasty aspersions of racism at anyone you use it against. It may somewhat accurately (though pejoratively) describe a certain type of music fan, but then whats its value? I don't tend to think that labels of that sort have much value when not used as self-description. It's critical bullshit.
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Rockism is an awesomely huge pile of bullshit invented by someone the British musical press in the early eighties to justify to themselves why they liked Culture Club better than The Cult without having to come out of the closet, which no one gave a shit about, which then got briefly resurrected so contrarians could have an excuse not to like the Smiths after they released 'Panic', which then lay thankfully dormant before being resurrected 15 years later by two not particularly good New York music critics so they could get massive payola kickbacks from Justin Timberlakes record label and call that guy from the Magnetic Fields a nazi for not liking rap.
Man, this should be the Wikipedia article instead. This was the most concise and brilliant explanation of a concept I've never heard of before. Khar is now basically awesome in my book, despite any past or potential future arguments.
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Fair enough. Interesting read. The people I've read who have interesting things to say about rockism (e.g. Simon Reynolds, I guess one of the Village Voice journalists you were slagging, and Tim Flannery, who *gasp* writes for Pitchfork sometimes) basically reject popism about as hard as they do rockism.
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I read up a lot on the subject quite recently, after the rockist crap kept cropping up during some research on music and race. Most of the journalistic articles online (outside the blogosphere) seem to centre around Slate and the Village Voice.
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Man, this should be the Wikipedia article instead. This was the most concise and brilliant explanation of a concept I've never heard of before. Khar is now basically awesome in my book, despite any past or potential future arguments.
You realise that didn't actually touch on the concept at all right?
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To quote Family Guy - "I don't know what a hollerback girl is but I want to kill her"
Seriously guys, Gwen Stefani? What?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism
If "rockism" never gets brought up again I will be only too happy. In fact, if no stupid made-up word gets brought up again I'll be only too happy.
For the sake of everyone involved who didn't bother clicking on the link, the idea behind "rockism" is that it's a perjorative term used to describe an attitude which places additional value in bands deemed "authentic" - write their own music, play their own music, release their own music, do their own booking or touring, etcetera, etcetera, with the emphasis placed on the first two things I listed there.
Of course, there are people who do take part in "rockism." We call them "Nickelback Fans."
For the most part, however, saying that someone is "rockist" is a lazy way of defending your like for odious plastic shit like, say, "Rich Girl" or "Luxurious" or "Cool." Or Mariah Carey. Or Britney Spears. Or The Pussycat Dolls. Or Girls Aloud. Or t.A.t.U., which puzzled the absolute shit out of me when I wrote for Stylus and was the only person who hated them.
The people that use the term "rockist" refer to themselves mostly as "popists" or, God help me, "poptimists," which is the idea that the hook prevails. Unfortunately, having been a singles reviewer for a website where the bulk of my fellow reviewers considered themselves as such, I can assure you that "poptimists" fall into their own special set of traps. The distinction between "hooky" and "obnoxious," unless it's something truly and genuinely grating to 90% of the world's population (e.g. Crazy Frog), becomes blurred to a point of irrelevance. Because something gets stuck in your head doesn't mean it's a great hook! The hook to Avril Lavigne's "Girlfriend" is in my head right now, but in reality it's a shit song - unimaginative, bland and featuring lyrics so stupid they border on offensive.
There's a lot more, but what I'm trying to say is this is an absurdly stupid debate. Both "poptimism" and "rockism," which you'll note that I've put in quotations the whole time because I don't buy them as neologisms, don't take into account, as Khar pointed out, the actual diversity of all recorded and performed music. It also attempts to place every band, song and record on the exact same value scale, which just doesn't work - I'm going to approach a record by Okkervil River differently than I'm going to approach Gwen Stefani. They're different records with different approaches and different goals, and it is completely ridiculous to judge them by the exact same standards.
Both terms are essentially defining the same narrow-minded nature in each barely-extistent camp, i.e. one which really just likes a particular genre of music and will rate anything that doesn't resemble that genre as crap.
Now can we please never have this discussion again? I'm remembering what thread this is in so that the next time "rockism" or "poptimism" are brought up I can kerble the fuck out of whoever does so.
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http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,6014.0.html
http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,8229.0.html
Pre-emptive double kerble. My first kerble was on the wrong message board!
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I vote for Johnny C as new World Emperor..
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Man all I wanted was to talk about the new gwen stefai album. Not the old one, which really had no redeeming values in my mind aside from aking a lot of money, which is cool I guess. Her new record is just a solid pop album. I like pop music! I know a lot of other people on here who do as well. I want to discuss it. I will continue to make threads about it, because I like listening to it. I am sorry you dudes can only like pop if it is deemed acceptable by whoever, (i.e the new Justin Timberlake) but I am going to keep listening to light hearted shit sometimes, secure in the knowledge that I still have better taste than a lot of the people who post here.
I mean jesus if it'll make you guys chill out I'll start a thread comparing the live and recorded versions of the three new animal collective songs that leaked last night. Or one about the new Liars album, which is pretty good so far.
But most likely I am gonna start a thread about the new Avril Lavigne album.
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I like pop music! I know a lot of other people on here who do as well. I want to discuss it. I will continue to make threads about it, because I like listening to it. I am sorry you dudes can only like pop if it is deemed acceptable by whoever, (i.e the new Justin Timberlake) but I am going to keep listening to light hearted shit sometimes, secure in the knowledge that I still have better taste than a lot of the people who post here.
I like pop music too! And I like a decent single! And it's okay to discuss it! And it's okay to like lighthearted music!
Spinless, the difference is this is a serious thread about a serious record.
But that shit just doesn't fly, son.
Besides, as we've established in minimum one thousand threads, if you make a thread about a band or an artist or an album or a song it is perfectly reasonable for me to come into said thread and express my feelings on said band or artist or album or song even if those feelings are negative. I didn't turn it into an attack on you at any point and there is a good reason for that. My ire is directed solely at Gwen Stefani who has released what is on the best of days an alright album (and yeah I've given it a couple of listens so I'm not just pulling this out of my ass here) yet will sell such a ridiculous amount of copies that her grandchildren will someday swim in a Scrooge-esque vault full of money for leisure, while people releasing genuinely good music struggle to make it outside of their hometowns.
Also have I mentioned the album really isn't that great? The titular single and a couple of tunes aside, it's exactly the same as her last record in terms of the great-to-shoddy ratio.
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Isn't this the "Music Forum"? I didn't see the disclaimer that this is a forum only for discussion of certain music. If someone wants to talk about Gwen Stefani, go for it.
Also: While Johnny's invitation was spot-on with my feelings, I have to disagree and say that I quite like t.A.t.U. And not ironically. And not because they're music-as-porn. I saw a live video of them with a full band and was sincerely impressed with how rocking it was.
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Johnny, baby. you know I wasn't talking to you. Mostly that post was for all the people dropping in, going "omgwtf Gwen Stefani that one song from 4 years ago sucked" and leaving. You rock, baby. You know this.
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We're walkin' on sunshine?
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Also, four years? I had no idea that record was so old.
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It dropped when I was either a junior or senior in High School, making it 3 or 4 years old.
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I think it's interesting that people rag on Gwen Stefani's voice (or "lack thereof"), but then go and listen to things like TV on the Radio or Joan of Arc. And I also find it interesting that so many people hate Gwen Stefani and love Peaches, when to me I don't think they're all together that far apart from each other. Both have very simplistic hooks, not a whole lot of singing, and get pretty derogatory against women... I love both of them, though. I think it's great, catchy music. Are they the best singers in all of history? No, not even close. But I think Gwen Stefani is far from the worst, and with N Doubt, she in my opinion had a perfectly fitting voice for the style and really defined that subset of music. Whether you like her voice or not, I definitely think that she's been a recognizable and an important voice in history.
--Ryan
P.S. - I think Toxic is catchy too...
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What the Christ are you on about, man? TV On the Radio has some of the best technical vocal singing in the industry right now! I mean, dude is up there with Van Morrisson in my book.
And Gwen Stefani vs. Peaches? Do we really need to go there? The first Peaches album is a lot catchier and edgier than anything Gwen has done and is not derogatory towards women. That said, I prefer Chicks on Speed and Miss Kittin to Peaches anyhow.
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See, my complaint was that we were taking this more seriously than the Marilyn Manson thread.
Why? I still don't have an answer. (Since my first post here, both threads have changed direction so this may no longer be relevant)
(also, ZD is right about TVotR having amazing vocals. And nobody actually likes JoA, it's common knowledge the guy in it can't sing)
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This thread was taken more seriously than the Marilyn Manson one because it's a long-standing tradition that indie rockers every now and then endorse pure-pop music (whether this is done sincerely or ironically is a whole nother style of kidney).
See: Justin Timberlake.
It has never - ever - been "cool" for indie rockers to like things like Marilyn Manson.
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I like Joan of Arc. More for the music than the singing, of course, but the singer isn't that bad. He pretty much just sounds like Gordon Gano being run through an "early SDRE" filter.
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This thread was taken more seriously than the Marilyn Manson one because it's a long-standing tradition that indie rockers every now and then endorse pure-pop music (whether this is done sincerely or ironically is a whole nother style of kidney).
See: Justin Timberlake.
It has never - ever - been "cool" for indie rockers to like things like Marilyn Manson.
This is the second time I'm posting this in this forum.
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2/ffgtthttghyujjfdss/cg0425joke.gif)
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That comic further proves that I am not an indie rock hipster, because my income sucks and I am a failure.
Anyway, I have nothing of value to add, other than that I sure miss No Doubt all of a sudden. And I don't really like No Doubt, since they are the only band in history other than Sublime who somehow made ska even more irritating than it already was.
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Sublime had some of the only ska-influenced songs I can stand. I'd rather listen to "Wrong Way" than anything by Reel Big Fish any day.
And as overplayed as it is, "What I Got" is actually a rather good pop tune.
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on the Kinsella tangent:
it's a shame Tim hardly ever gets any recognition for his music, he always seems to be in the shadow of big (little?) brother.
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FWIW, I only brought up rockism in the context of helping Spinless to answer his question as to why some people like Gwen Stefani. Johnny C made lots of good points about the false dichotomy between rockism and popism.
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To me, TV on the Radio sounds like if Andre 5000 just forgot how to sing. My roommates at school this last year loved them, and I couldn't stand them. I would rather listen to Gwen Stefani or Tim Kinsella in a heartbeat.
I think the thing I've always loved about indie music is that do-it-yourself attitude. The best bands are always a bunch of average joes from small town Montana or some other obscure place. A couple friends who happened to be mediocre musicians got together and just played. And the thing is, their sheer lack of formal musical training just happened to create something new. The prime example to me is Joy Division. They didn't know a thing about music and what happened? They helped pioneer the whole bass playing the main line thing. I just can't help but see that whole idea slowly fading away.
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Is this a bizzaro universe or something? Marylin Manson and Gwen Stefani threads? Next it will be Britney spears... "no seriously guys she's some great musician". Please.
1) Don't be a douchebag to people who've been here over three years.
2) Don't be a douchebag to people with great music taste.
3) Don't be a douchebag to people who are clearly being facetious.
4) Don't be a douchebag to people who can out douchebag you with their eyes closed.
5) Don't be a douchebag.
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4) Don't be a douchebag to people who can out douchebag you with their eyes closed.
It's true! He can douchebag you into the next county if you aren't careful!
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He douchebagged me to west yorkshire once!
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I am sorry you dudes can only like pop if it is deemed acceptable by whoever, (i.e the new Justin Timberlake)
To be fair, Justin Timberlake fucking sucks ass as well, so that's alright.
See, thing is, not to resurrect the debate, but I think this brings up the reason popism sucks: the idea that pop should be given a break because it's 'just pop, lol', as if there doesn't actually have to be any sort of quality in the music that dominates our mass culture. It maybe fun to dance to sometimes (I disagree), but in the end, it's like comparing Uwe Boll and Francis Coppola. It all stinks of deliberate contrarianism. "You fools! You're deluded! Neutral Milk Hotel is not good music! You can bearly even shake your hips to it!"
Though I kind of like T.a.T.u as well. Whoever the dinky little russian faux-lesbians are who do the singing they have nice voices. I think maybe a huge part of my inability to like pop centers around my hatred of a certain type of American accent in music. Oh, and hip-hop.
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I heard he once douchebagged a hole to China! Then he douchebagged the Emperor so hard he had massive heart failure.
Then he was decapitated and his head was put on a pike for killing the beloved leader. It's a sad story.
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It dropped when I was either a junior or senior in High School, making it 3 or 4 years old.
Gwen Stefani herself is old. She's like, pushing fourty. I know that's completely irrelevant and random, and I don't know what I'm trying to accomplish by posting this. But she's old.
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Un! Deux! Trois! Dis: Miroir Noir!
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To me, TV on the Radio sounds like if Andre 5000 just forgot how to sing.
That just means that you don't like them, and perhaps that you have little knowledge of what constitutes a technical ability to sing.
TV On the Radio provably have vocals that are technically talented. You may not like them, but it's ignorant of musical theory to say that Tunde Adebimpe "can't sing", just as it would be ignorant to say that Steve Vai "can't play guitar", whether you like how he plays it or not.
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Is this a bizzaro universe or something? Marylin Manson and Gwen Stefani threads? Next it will be Britney spears... "no seriously guys she's some great musician". Please.
1) Don't be a douchebag to people who've been here over three years.
2) Don't be a douchebag to people with great music taste.
3) Don't be a douchebag to people who are clearly being facetious.
4) Don't be a douchebag to people who can out douchebag you with their eyes closed.
5) Don't be a douchebag.
Love you too, baby.
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To me, TV on the Radio sounds like if Andre 5000 just forgot how to sing.
if Andre 5000 just forgot how to sing.
Andre 5000
Andre 5000
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Dirk, does your avatar have Paris Hilton crying in it?
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So yeah, Gwen Stefani sucks, and I don't care how many critics and hipsters try to rehabilitate Justin Timberlake because he sucks, too. I'd even go so far as to say the only mainstream pop act I can enjoy (note that I said enjoy, and not "stand to listen to") is Outkast.
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First, I don't think you could even classify Outkast as a "pop" act, at least not in the sense that Timberlake and Stefani are "pop" acts. Whether they're successful at it or not, Outkast definitely are trying to be more than just a radio-hit machine.
Second, if you do choose to define Outkast as "pop" music, then I think you'd have to throw REM, U2, the White Stripes, etc. in there too - in other words, everything that's on a major label and that releases singles meant for radio airplay.
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Don't give him the satisfaction.
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Second, if you do choose to define Outkast as "pop" music, then I think you'd have to throw REM, U2, the White Stripes, etc. in there too
To be fair, all those pretty much suck. REM had some good albums 'back in the day', so hipsters tell me, U2 are the most over-rated thing ever to live, The White Stripes too, though that video with the pyramids inside the pyramids was kinda cool, and, er, no idea who Outkast are. Heard of them I'm sure. I'm sure they fucking suck.
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Did I really type Andre 5000? Sorry about that. Maybe I got Powerman 5000 mixed in my head or something.
There goes my cred. [/sarc]
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no idea who Outkast are. Heard of them I'm sure. I'm sure they fucking suck.
I think they are that band who did the "Sorry Miss Johnson" song a while ago, yeah they were pretty crap i think they've fallen off the face of the earth now.
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this thread
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Oh for fuck's sake people nobody's even trying with Outkast.
It's "Ms. Jackson," damnit.
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Yeah thats it, one of those Australian "rock" bands, Jet or the Vines or something covered it a few years ago it was all over the radio...
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... and it was a single from the 4th of their 7 platinum-selling albums.
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Yeah, except where did they sell the vast majority of those albums?
I'm gonna make a wild stab and say it wasn't in the countries me and Scytale live in.
Also I just googled them. Whoa. I didn't know there were so many genres of hip-hop. Well, the more you know, the less you care.
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(http://www.advancemed.ca/Botox/female32_before.jpg)
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So yeah, Gwen Stefani sucks, and I don't care how many critics and hipsters try to rehabilitate Justin Timberlake because he sucks, too. I'd even go so far as to say the only mainstream pop act I can enjoy (note that I said enjoy, and not "stand to listen to") is Outkast.
Outkast are not mainstream pop. Outkast are hip-hop/rap/whatever other genre they dabble in to accentuate their work. They have pushed the boundaries of their areas of music a hell of a lot; to just call them mainstream pop - particularly since many people will only know 'Ms. Jackson' onwards, or worse, 'Hey Ya' onwards - is a bit insulting to some visionaries of the genre.
...yet looking down it appears some people have beat me to saying this.
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I have to admit Ms Jackson is the only song I've heard of theres, thanks for clarifying.
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For what it's worth, REM haven't made a good album since 1991. NOTE: I said album, not song. At this point REM's losing streak is well over a decade long, with each new release being hailed as "a return to form" by either Rolling Stone or some fucking British magazine who have lost touch with what makes good music let alone a good REM album.
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(http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd500/d532/d53239uyomg.jpg)?
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Yeah, what Kai and Tommy said.
Also, Monster. I don't give a shit what anyone says, it's a solid album.
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REM are the ones with the weedy looking bald singer right?
Nah, I kid, kind of. I've only heard two songs of theirs and one was because Graveworm covered it, that was 'Losing My Religion' and it wasn't all that bad. Preferred Graveworms version, but I DID hear it first. The other one was the one they released quite recently (well, last few years) 'It's Been a Bad Day' or summat (only heard it, dunno the title). That one was pretty boring but not as actively offensive as say, The Arctic Monkeys. I suppose to be fair I shouldn't dismiss them as crap off having heard two songs by them and both of them being alright but they're pretty low down on my list of bands to check out.
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It's hard to be as actively offensive as the Arctic Monkeys without having the band actually show up and piss on your floor.
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I hear Seth Putnam spits in a childs face every time he hears their name mentioned.
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I was generalizing, but specifically I did mean that Automatic For The People is the last great album they ever made. The two you guys have mentioned are OK and have some really great songs, but as ALBUMS?? No no no.
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Rockist.
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The two you guys have mentioned are OK and have some really great songs, but as FRISBEES?? No no no.
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I really love Automatic for The People, Monster and New Adventures in Hi-Fi, i recently listened to Up and liked it a lot. There were a few bad songs and the sequencing is all off, but it is a good album.
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I haven't given Up a chance since it released. Perhaps I will now.
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I read a blog once that did a review of Up and reaarraged the track so it sounded better, iwish i could rememebr which blog it was.
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It's ironic that my favourite REM song was the first release post-Berry, namely 'The Great Beyond.' But then I'm not much of an REM scholar.
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"The Sweet Escape" is on the music loop that plays at both of my jobs. So basically I hear it once or twice and hour, all day long.
They can check me into the institution at any time.
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It's ironic that my favourite REM song was the first release post-Berry, namely 'The Great Beyond.' But then I'm not much of an REM scholar.
I really like thast song, it is not my favouritwe as trhat title belongs to'fall on me' or 'finest worksong' or 'me in honey'. but it is a ´pretty sweet song
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I think Yummy is a pretty good song guys. That's Gwen Stefani, not REM.