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Fun Stuff => MAKE => Topic started by: humanoftheyear on 13 Aug 2007, 17:47
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this past year i've become very enamored with graphic novels. as an aspiring artist myself, i've found a new level of inspiration from reading them.
as with most things in life that i enjoy, i want more, more, more. i'd really appreciate some suggestions for great graphic novels you guys have read. especially graphic novels that are memoirs, those are my absolute favorites.
my favorites so far have been:
fun home by alison bechdel
pyongyang by guy delisle
persepolis by marjane satrapi
maus by art spiegelman
blankets by craig thompson
two i have yet to read but received as gifts:
autobiographix - dark horse
safe area gorazde - joe sacco
i've read some frank miller but not too much. mainly his works that have been adapted to film. i'm also a fan of will eisner, but i haven't really gone beyone reading his version of moby dick.
i'm also curios as to what people think of graphic novels as far as literature goes. i've had a few professors in uni teach them in class, and some teachers just find the idea of a book with pictures too absurd for a college level (which i find ridiculous myself). what do ya'll think? are you less likely to take comics/graphic novels less seriously than classics that are taught to you in school?
i'm curious (:
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My two favourites:
The Walking Dead (http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Dead-Vol-Days-Gone/dp/1582406723/ref=pd_bbs_8/002-6543267-0273621?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187061679&sr=8-8) by Kirkman & Moore (et. al.)
Y: The Last Man (http://www.amazon.com/Y-Last-Man-Vol-Unmanned/dp/1563899809/ref=sr_1_9/002-6543267-0273621?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187061759&sr=1-9) by Vaughan, Guerra & Marzan (et. al.)
I'm into post-apocalyptic type stuff. The Walking Dead is (obviously) about zombies. Y: The Last Man is about the last man left on Earth - every single male on Earth dies at the same time, except for one.
Both are phenomenally written, the artwork (b&w for Walking Dead, full colour for Y:TLM) is incredible and they're both so detailed. I highly recommend both.
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when my fiancee was in kuwait i sent him a few of the walking dead volumes. he now has the whole collection. i started to read the first one but i couldn't really get that into it but he insists it's amazing. i should pick it up again.
i also really love mouse guard. so cute and violent.
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I second all recommendations of works by Alan Moore, as well as Walking Dead. Also highly recommend Transmetropolitain (10 volumes, but cheap on amazon and you can read the first few and see if you like it... it only gets better), or really anything by Warren Ellis. I've pimped him before and I'll pimp him again, he is absolutely my favorite twisted, ornery bastard. Kingdom Come if only for the artwork; having the whole thing illustrated by Alex Ross is breathtaking. If you're a Marvel fan I also suggest the first few volumes of the Exiles TPB, the ones written by Judd Winick. It's rejects from alternate x-men universes thrown into a Quantum Leap type setting. Honestly, it's the only x-men related franchise I've read in the past 5 years that I've truly loved.
Edit: Just remembered Pride of Baghdad by Brian K. Vaughn. Inspired by a news snippet coming from the Iraq war, it follows a bunch of lions who escaped from a zoo during the bombing of the Iraqi city. Short, self-contained, and quite moving.
Edit x2!: I just saw your question regarding the literary value of graphic novels and thought of something that might be relevant. A month or two ago one of my friends and former roomate happened to introduce an anthropology professor to Transmetropolitan (he was over for a family event). Unexpectedly, he was so enamored by the book that he made the first three volumes available to all of his students. Not sure what this says about it's literary value or the sanity of said professor, but it's interesting....
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Alan Moore is great, but if you want comic memoirs, the next logical step after all the ones you have listed is Epileptic by David B.
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Is there a difference between graphic novels and comic books? If so, what?
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Hmm...yes, I would say there is a pretty large grey area between what is a graphic novel and what is a comic book...There are differences of course, but there are also a lot of similarities.
As for the question at hand...
Did you read -both- parts of Maus? I know a lot of people in my Book Group didn't realize there was a second part to it (we had to read it for a group discussion at my college), so I had to explain to a bunch of people what happened afterwards, even though it had been forever since I read it.
Have you ever read Fables? (http://www.amazon.com/Fables-Vol-1-Legends-Exile/dp/1563899426/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-1329235-8999157?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187145013&sr=8-2) I would reccomend it if you haven't read it. It's a few volumes (I think 6 issues each?), and possibly still on-going. It's been a bit since I checked up on it's progress, but it is -very- good, and the artwork is to die for.
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Is there a difference between graphic novels and comic books? If so, what?
There is no real consensus on the terms and it usually depends on who you ask. A random sample:
Person 1: "Graphic novel" refers to comics in the form of hardbound books and trade paperbacks, "comic book" refers to the traditional 6.5 x 10 pamphlet-form comic book.
Person 2: "Graphic novel" refers to any and all comics.
Person 3: "Comic book" refers to any and all comics.
Person 4: The proper term is Sequentially-Illustrated Novel, guys. Stop bringing down the medium.
Person 5: MANGAS LOL!!
Person 6: The terms are pretty much interchangeable. It's all comics in the end.
It seems to me that most people who say "graphic novel" lean towards the first definition, or a qualified version of it. My view on the issue is the same as that of Person 6. Person 6 is a good guy.
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Guy Delisle has another travelogue graphic novel called "Shenzen" that you would probably also really enjoy, if you haven't read it yet, also published by Drawn & Quarterly. It's really good.
Based on your list, I would also recommend:
"A Contract with God" by Will Eisner (arguably the "first" graphic novel... but that's neither here nor there)
"Louis Riel" and "The Little Man" by Chester Brown
"Wimbeldon Green" and "Clyde Fans" by Seth (or anything else he's done for that matter, the guy is amazing)
"Same Difference" by Derek Kirk Kim - you can actually read this one online for free HERE (http://www.lowbright.com/Comics/SameDifference/SameDifferenceIndex.htm)
"American Born Chinese" by Gene Luen Yang
"Signal to Noise" by Neil Gaiman & Dave McKean
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Kingdom Come
Superman: Red Son
Marvels
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And no one has bothered mentioning Sandman? The story isn't just amazing, but the art is as well.
There's a lot of stuff out there to be reading in graphic novel land.
Try Chunky Rice if you like Craig Thompson. Also, I've heard good things about American Splendour, but I could be wrong, I haven't read it.
And Bone is a fantastic series (What?).
Surf the webernets to your heart's content on the subject of graphic comic novels. There are a lot of them out there, but I get the sense you might not be looking for the whole superhero bent, right? Check out Watchmen anyway, and, like some above me have said, any Alan Moore. He's the only person who has looked into superheroes memorably for me, after all, he's the only man to ever have won a Hugo for a comic. (Watchmen)
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In terms of the difference between comics and graphic novels:...there is none. Typically graphic novel is used by people who don't want to cop to the fact they're reading a medium that is typically looked down upon as childish by the mainstream.
Anyways, it sounds to me like you're looking for more finite material than anything serialized. As much as I absolutely lover Walking Dead, it's a book with no specific end in sight. If you love zombies, I wouldn't dare let that stop you, though. As a fan of the zombie horror genre, Walking Dead is simply the best zombie related story I have ever encountered (Much better than anything Romero's put out since Dawn of the Dead). While it's meandered from the overall zombie idea lately, it's a suspenseful and well conceived character piece.
Y the Last Man comes heavily recommended as well. It was mentioned briefly, but some additional details: It's a finite storyline with a beginning, middle and end. They're a few months away from the ending (I think there's maybe two issues left before it's done). It focuses on about three years in the life of Yorick, the sole surviving human male after a catastrophe kills every single organism with a Y chromosome except him and his monkey Ampersand.
If you don't mind the tights and flights genre, there's also some great reading out there. Kingdom Come was mentioned. That's a story of a future period when most of Earth's heroes have gone into retirement. It focuses on Superman's return and him attempting to build a new world order around the other heroes.
Rising Stars is a great work. It focuses on 112 people from Pederson, Illinois who were all born with superpowers due to an unexplained (Initially) phenomenon that occured while they were all in utero.
Anything that Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale collaborated on (Batman: The Long Halloween, Spider-Man: Blue, Daredevil: Yellow, etc) is worth checking out.
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Will Eisner: if you've only read his Moby Dick, you really ought to read A Talk With God. That's an amazing book.
American Splendor may be of interest since it's a rotating artist dealing with one man's every day stories.
Here's one a little harder to find, My Brain Hurts (http://lizbaillie.livejournal.com/35002.html) is being collected. At $5, it's not a risky thing to try out. Romance and teenage angst in a coming of age story.
It's not collected (to my knowledge) but Action Girl has occassional Alison Bechdel stories and is an on again off again all women artist/writer anthology edited by Sarah Dyer.
Her husband, Evan Dorkin, also runs a great book, Dork. It's being collected I believe.
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(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8831/dematteisoq8.jpg)
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All really great reccomendations. I'm relatively new to the medium myself- i've been reading them for about 2 years now and am quite addicted. In terms of them being taken seriously by accademic types; my source for just about every one i've read has been the uni library, they have thousands of them (meaning that i actualy own very few) but i think that the fact that such a considerable amount of mo ney would be spent making them available to students is a good indication tha they are recognised as a worthy form of literature. However, i don't think they should be studied. They weren't designed to be "taught", every element of them has been made wholly accessable to the reader, and i don't think there is much a proffessor could reveal about them.
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I mostly agree with you on the accessibility of graphic novels, although there a few out there which might warrant some actual study. Yeah I know everyone mentions it, but Watchmen is the first one that comes to mind. Theres a lot there you'd miss if you don't at least know the gist of postmodernist thinking.
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Agreed. I was lost when i read it for the first time 3-4 years ago. On previous reccomendations- I just bought the first two volumes of the walking dead. I'm nearly finished the first and it's pretty damn fun. I also got Joe Sacco's Palestine, what's that like? Also, can anyone reccomend a good comic review site?
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I am going to agree with those who reccomended Transmetrapolitan and Y: The Last Man.
I'm also going to add anything by Sam Kieth, who is pretty much my comic hero. My favourite is definately Zero Girl, but the Maxx series is really good too. Bizarre though.
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I have to disagree. It's a lesson in the synthesis of words and pictures to tell stories. Because it has written elements, there's the ability to use plot, prose, discussion of articulate ideas. Because it is a visual medium, composition, visual symbolism, line, shade, etc come into play as well. Should they be studied? Absolutely! Unless you think literature shouldn't be or art history, there's no reason why comics shouldn't be studied either. The only issue I see limiting it is that its form as we know it has only been around for over 100 years. It's one of those mediums that shows up every few years combining elements to experience it like Opera was the synthesis of writing, music and visual elements during the Baroque.
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Did you read -both- parts of Maus? I know a lot of people in my Book Group didn't realize there was a second part to it (we had to read it for a group discussion at my college), so I had to explain to a bunch of people what happened afterwards, even though it had been forever since I read it.
Have you ever read Fables? (http://www.amazon.com/Fables-Vol-1-Legends-Exile/dp/1563899426/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-1329235-8999157?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187145013&sr=8-2) I would reccomend it if you haven't read it. It's a few volumes (I think 6 issues each?), and possibly still on-going. It's been a bit since I checked up on it's progress, but it is -very- good, and the artwork is to die for.
yeah, i read both parts for a class i took over literature and the holocaust. i love that prof for introducing me to spiegelman and recommending alison bechdel to me. i wonder how people didn't know there was a second part, isn't there a I on the binding? i know the two books aren't the original way it was printed, but i figured it was common knowledge that there were two.
and thanks sososo much to everyone else for their input. i'm glad i have a healthy list to take to my comic store! ya'll also gave me a few good gift ideas for my fiancee. i always feel kind of dumb for some reason whenever i pester the clerks to see what they like. maybe because they're so passionate and namedrop 50million artists and it makes me feel illiterate.
but, yay. i'm glad i'm working again so i can start buying more books. i really don't know how other people are about buying books vs. checking them out from a library, but i love collecting them and adding notes and stuff in the text.
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My boyfriend and I have about $2000 worth of graphic novels now. I need another bookcase, I have too much crap.
So basically, I'd rather buy than borrow, because I am a chronic re-reader.
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I still have no idea about the terms. Thanks for your help though, guys. I still feel like people who say graphic novel are dorkier than people who say comic book. Anyway.....
Read Fables. My understanding is that it is really good. A friend who knows a lot about comics recommended it to me.
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The earlier volumes of Dave Sim's Cerebus are well worth reading, particularly High Society, Church and State (2 vol.), and Jaka's Story. (They're printed on newsprint, and are therefore less expensive than most graphic novels or trade collections.) Sim, besides being a pioneer in comics self-publishing, was for some time an innovative storyteller in terms of writing, panel layout, lettering and other elements. Unfortunately, as Sim retreated more and more into his own inner world, Cerebus became increasingly inaccessible and ultimately a platform for his bizarre extremist views on women, homosexuals, and religion. But don't let that keep you from trying the earlier volumes I've mentioned.
Although manga is, in the West, commonly associated with formulaic, juvenile adventure and romance stories, the last few years have seen the translation and publication of sophisticated and literary manga novels. I'm still relatively new to these, but for now I can recommend all eight volumes of Osamu Tezuka's Buddha. It's funny, moving and inspirational without being preachy or proselytizing.
In terms of DC publications,along with those others have mentioned I'd recommend Grant Morrison's Animal Man, Doom Patrol and The Invisibles, listed in order of accessibility. Animal Man is, like Watchmen, a deconstruction of the superhero genre and Morrison's most emotionally powerful work. Doom Patrol belongs in the "absurdist literature" category; Morrison used automatic writing and the "cut-up" technique to portray a world constantly in flux between sense and nonsense. The Invisibles is Morrison's most complex and subversive work, dealing with anarchism (both violent and peaceful), magic, and the ways in which language determines reality. It does get confusing at times as the series progresses (and the frequent, sometimes inappropriate artist changes don't help), but there are good online annotations to guide readers through the "huh?!" bits.
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I'd go on further with Doom Patrol since Rachel Pollack's run deal very nicely in discussions of religion and gender theory but those haven't been collected yet as trades.
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Yes, I hope they collect Pollack's Doom Patrol run. I love her non-fiction books on tarot, kabbalah and such. All I know about her stint on DP is her allusion to one of her storylines in her companion book to Dave McKean's Vertigo Tarot. Yeah, I'm a freak. :lol: I've tried tracking down the individual issues from her run but without success. (Apparently hers didn't sell anywhere near as well as Morrison's--many readers found them too obscure---and DC eventually cancelled the title. So I'm not sure they will in fact put it out in trades.)
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ARKHAM ASYLUM. Dave McKean's most beautiful art accompanied with Morrison's most powerful story. And not at all long either.
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Oh, has anyone else here read The Boys? We just got it the other day, it's really good. It's basically about this group of people who keep all the superheroes in check by beating the shit out of them. In a nutshell anyway.
Absolutely fucking crazy Frenchman and girl who rips peoples faces off included. It's pretty great!
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Persepolis blew my mind away! Its so refreshing to know that graphic novels/comics can be a great medium to express opinions as serious as what happened to the Middle East. Also, Castle Waiting is a pretty cute book, but not much of a heavy read. Its about this woman who was abused by her husband, so she goes to this castle to hide.
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Through the past two days, I started (and caught up with) the Walking Dead. It is, as Matt and others said, very worthwhile. It mixes all of the elements of the zombie-drama perfectly and is beautifully drawn to boot (maybe beautiful isn't the right word, but it's still very good). I highly suggest it to anyone that likes any kind of comic book.
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I think there is a second persepolis coming out.
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Through the past two days, I started (and caught up with) the Walking Dead. It is, as Matt and others said, very worthwhile. It mixes all of the elements of the zombie-drama perfectly and is beautifully drawn to boot (maybe beautiful isn't the right word, but it's still very good). I highly suggest it to anyone that likes any kind of comic book.
I just bought the latest two volumes and am officially addicted. it started out as a shameless rip off of all the best zombie films but really comes into its own when the focus changes from the undead to the characers- and by now the people are more of a threat to eachother than them. The comic store guy said he's also really enjoyin them, that the writin aint astonishin but it's sellin point is that it is really COMPELLING and you do come to care about these people. Plus i love the art and i think it was a great idea to do it black and white.
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Grant Morisson's The Filth is balls crazy but I loved it. Highly recommended, especially if you like mindfucks.
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I also really liked Transmetropolitan. I also like Jeffrey Brown's work (eg. Unlikely). Less Than Heros. Scott Pilgrim. Demo.
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If someone hasn't already listed it. Howabout The New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke? It was a fantastic read.
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Ok, some have already been mentioned but here is my list of suggested reading. Judging from the ones you've read you would probably enjoy these. I know I did.
American Born Chinese by Gene Luen Yang
I Never Liked You by Chester Brown
Black Hole By Charles Burns.......I love this one!!!
Epileptic By David B.
Ghost World by Daniel Clowes
Chunky Rice by Craig Thompson.....same author of Blankets
Scott Pilgrim By Brian Lee O'Maley ......Hilarious!!!
So get to reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Macedonia by Harvey Pekar, Heather Roberson, and Ed Piskor. Memoir of a student who went to Macedonia to learn how the country avoided a war. Very good. And, as far as memoirs go, Pekar's pretty much the mainstay. Some American Splendor is quite good... any given volume will really give you kind of a mix, though the recent, Vertigo-released one is quite good overall. As far as non-AS Pekar, you'd do well to check out The Quitter (a memoir of Pekar's early life) and Ego & Hubris: The Michael Malice Story (about a guy who I thought had to be fictional until I read the jacket...). Both of those are very, very good.
And yeah, Eisner's good. A Contract With God is fantastic, but I prefer Dropsie Avenue.
Oh, and you might like some Alex Robinson. Box Office Poison and Tricked are both quite good.
You may also dig Pride of Baghdad by Brian K. Vaughan (and an artist whose name I forget), if talking animals don't bother you.
Also, I second the Ghost World suggestion. I really love Clowes' work. Ice Haven, David Boring, and Caricature are also well worth picking up. Like a Velvet Glove Cast in Iron is fantastic, but probably way the hell too out there for most folks.
Oh, and, finally, if you don't mind superheroes, do get Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's All-Star Superman. It's a thing of beauty (only the first volume (of two, I think) is out, though).
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I think there is a second persepolis coming out.
http://www.amazon.com/Persepolis-Story-Return-Marjane-Satrapi/dp/0375714669/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-0507834-2104663?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190772120&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Persepolis-Story-Return-Marjane-Satrapi/dp/0375714669/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-0507834-2104663?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190772120&sr=8-3)
Man, this has been out for a while. There is also an animated movie that Marjane Satrapi directed.
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Read Fables. My understanding is that it is really good. A friend who knows a lot about comics recommended it to me.
it is currently my favorite title, and the only comic book I actively collect.
All of the fairy tale characters have been driven from their homelands and are living in a community that they set up in New york called Fabletown, which they have kept hidden due to their immortality.
One of the best comics out there.
Also, I was a fan of 100 bullets, and there was a short series collected in four volumes called Sleeper which is worth reading about super powered criminal mafia type of guys,m and included a few of the Wildcats characters, with one of them being the main antagonist.
Grimmy
also participate on the Fables forums, where the author interacts with fans too
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I think there is a second persepolis coming out.
http://www.amazon.com/Persepolis-Story-Return-Marjane-Satrapi/dp/0375714669/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-0507834-2104663?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190772120&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Persepolis-Story-Return-Marjane-Satrapi/dp/0375714669/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-0507834-2104663?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190772120&sr=8-3)
Man, this has been out for a while. There is also an animated movie that Marjane Satrapi directed.
I've been looking ALL over theaters for that movie... any details when its coming out in america?
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All the obvious ones seem to have been mentioned. If I wanted to recommend you one thing to get first, it would be Watchmen. Alan Moore is almost certainly the best writer in the comics industry, simply because he has the canniness to exploit the form to do things that can't be done in films or novels. The examples I always pull out are the 'comic within a comic' in Watchmen, where panels of the pirate comic the boy is reading are intercut with the panels of the story, and the television studio break-in in V For Vendetta, with the simultaneous lines of dialogue from the multiple television monitors. You really have to read it to understand.
Otherwise, it seems to me that people have been kind of reticent with non-western suggestions. If there's any manga that you NEED to read, it's probably Akira, by Katsuhiro Otomo. This is a pity, because Akira is absolutely fucking enormous: it has to be one of the longest continous graphic novel by a single author/artist behind Cerebus (and you can quibble about Cerebus because a lot of the artwork was a collaboration). It's expensive as well. Each of the six books set me back £20 (for Volumes 1-3) or £25 (for Volumes 4-6), about four years ago. Might be cheaper now, that was before manga really blew up. It's a lot better than the film, with deeper characters, and miraculously it actually makes sense. At the end of the day though, it's probably worth it just for the artwork. It's also a great first time manga, because it doesn't employ any of the Japanese comics conventions that might alienate a reader in other manga (No chibi, no nosebleeds, etc.) Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, the english translation is only available flopped (ie mirror imaged so it reads left to right, rather than right to left like a proper manga), and all the onomatopeia and almost all the 'in world' writing has been meticulously stripped out by some poor bastard with Photoshop and replaced with english writing. Admittedly, this has been done very proffessionally, but it is jarringly noticeable now and then (for example, when the Americans show up and Otomo had english writing originally on their planes, it is all backwards) In a similiar vein, Masamune Shirow's 'Ghost in the Shell' is a good aquisition. It's been much less fucked around than Akira, mainly just flopped, and although the plot maybe isn't quite as deep, and the artwork is much more cartoony, in the Japanese sense, it still looks great and reads great, and, refreshingly, Shirow allows you the option of choosing whether to be a complete geek or not by shoving most of the hard sci-fi ephemera into copious notes at the end of the thing, which aren't really necessary to the story. Another definite is 'Barefoot Gen' by Keiji Nakazawa, a moving autobiographical account of the atom-bombing of Hiroshima.
After that, you're probably, in all honesty with myself, in the territory where you have to actually like manga and its conventions, though I'd say you'd be pretty safe with Blade of the Immortal and Lone Wolf and Cub, because, hey, who doesn't like mysterious ronin beating the shit out of everyone they meet? And, judging by your selection of favourites, I probably shouldn't go in to any of the extreme stuff, though I think everyone needs to read at least one Suehiro Maruo book before they die, preferably after having taken some potent hallucinogens.
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cant wait to see Persepolis animated. haven't been able to hit up a festival yet :(
BONE
Kabuki
X-Force/X-statix
but looking at your list and the ones provided, i'm most likely preaching to the choir :mrgreen:
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Yes to Bone, yes.
Also, Khar, what about Osamu Tezuka. Apollo's Song was pretty great, check that out too.
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A lot of people look straight to Alan Moore for the perfect example of art-comics. I've never been able to handle Moore, he just doesn't tell stories the way I like them. Neil Gaiman is much more my style, I'm yet to read/watch anything with him behind it that I didn't love. An up and coming comic that's pretty exciting is the Exterminators, which is full of gross bugs exploding etc. It has no big names in the creative team but it's amazingly involving and funny. It's at its second trade (in Australia, probably up to 5 in the States) but I expect good things. Also the Jeph Loeb/ Tim Sale run of Batman comics (Long Halloween, Haunted Knight, Dark Victory) are really the best thing mainstream DC has going.
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Sandman & Watchmen
oh man two of my faves .... you are indeed after my heart!! Allso of course im gunna add a hell yeah to v for vendetta and sin city
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I would also like to add From Hell to this list. While extremely hefty, it's worth the read.
I don't feel like the original poster is still using the forums though, or is still checking this thread for that matter.
Is all of this for naught?
I suggest that any further recommendations be to the forums as a whole, and be accompanied by some sort of description of the title.
I'll start.
From Hell is a 572 page 'graphic novel' (*Cough* comic *cough*) by Alan Moore, and illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It is about Jack The Ripper, if that helps (Although it's more likely you've heard of the movie, which is different, heh.). The story mainly revolves around a character named Gull. Pick this up if you are interesting in Jack the Ripper and Alan Moore, and a story that has Mr. Moore speculating JtR's identity and possible motives.
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Some of my favs:
V for Vendetta;
The Watchmen; and
God Loves, Man Kills.
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I also really liked Transmetropolitan. I also like Jeffrey Brown's work (eg. Unlikely). Less Than Heros. Scott Pilgrim. Demo.
I can second Transmet. Scott Pilgrim as well, but partially because it's a 4 volume story and once you've read the first you have to read the rest, just to see him go after all the ex-boyfriends.
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Oh, has anyone else here read The Boys? We just got it the other day, it's really good. It's basically about this group of people who keep all the superheroes in check by beating the shit out of them. In a nutshell anyway.
Absolutely fucking crazy Frenchman and girl who rips peoples faces off included. It's pretty great!
issue 11 just came out, beginning of the russia story arc, so excited for this series.
also, Preacher by Garth Ennis and Sandman by Neil Gaiman. Those are really the two biggest recommendations I can think of.
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Exit Wounds by Rutu Modan
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Since it was brought up earlier, the only difference I thought between a comic book and a graphic novel as that novels tend to only be one thing, while comic books were part of a series. Graphic novels were also longer. I dunno.
One that wasn't listed that I happen to enjoy - Frank Miller's Batman: Dark Knight Returns. I like Miller's work in general, but I really like the artwork and the storyline in this comic. (Followups are The Dark Knight Strikes Again and Holy Terror Batman!)
Others:
Kabuki
Grimm Fairy Tales
Fables
Ghost World
anything written by Neil Gaiman
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/partyongarth/nil-1.jpg)
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Check out the names Charles Burns, Daniel Clowes, Adrian Tomine and Chris Ware.
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Since it was brought up earlier, the only difference I thought between a comic book and a graphic novel as that novels tend to only be one thing, while comic books were part of a series. Graphic novels were also longer. I dunno.
The only difference between a graphic novel and a comic book is that graphic novels are read by people who are too pretentious and/or snobby to admit they're reading a comic book. The same thing has happened with manga in recent years. Just because you read the panels backwards doesn't change the fact it's a story presented in an illustrated, panel by panel format.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, chances are there's some dipshit who'll call it an "aquatic nonfish" for the sake of maintaining their indie cred.
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But the thing is, the only people who are going to note the "difference" is other people who read them same as you do and aren't going to just assume "Hey, Mickey." If someone doesn't know that Mickey isn't the only thing out there in comic format, odds are that saying "Graphic Novels" is going to require explanation too.
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Yeah, but looking at that, where's the point if you have to slip that extra bit in anyway?
"I read comic books"
Like Donald Duck?"
"No. Anyways..."
You just dropped half your work right there.
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There are numerous technical differences between Graphic Novels and Comics. The basic one would be that Graphic Novels are collected, self-contained stories, whereas comics could generally better be described as long sequences of linked episodes or single strips forming a generally ongoing narrative, if that makes any sense. There's a qualitative difference between, say Watchmen, and Spiderman, in the format and scope of the whole thing. There's also a difference between something like 'The Dark Knight Returns' and the Batman newspaper strips. It's also about the way you cut up the narrative of course, but only really in the final presentation. Most graphic novels originally ran as comics. In practicality, it's more a trade term: graphic novels and trade paperbacks are pretty much the same thing.
As for comics and manga, well, different presentation format (now, thank the gods, they've started selling un-flopped manga in english), different visual language (ZZZ versus nose bubbles, different way of approaching panels), largely though not exclusively based in different genres (superheroes and funny animals versus mecha and magical girls), rooted in different artistic traditions (Hogarth versus Hiroshige) though there is crossover both past and present. It makes commercial, as well as artistic sense, to present them as different things. Maybe not so much nowadays, as the two have blurred conspicuously (particularly western comics adopting concepts and aesthetics from manga).
Also, although the term 'graphic novels' might be seen as pretentious, I believe it has been crucial in gaining what literary acceptance exists of the medium. I don't think Maus would have won a Pulitzer if it had been presented as a comic book rather than a graphic novel. The term 'comics' just carries too much baggage from the dark years of the Comics Code. Hell, even back in the old days, underground comics used to call themselves 'comix' to distance themselves from that association. Maybe it's time to claim back the name for the medium, but I don't think so quite yet. Huge inroads have been made in to accepting sequential illustration (now there's a nicely pretentious term) as a legitimate, mature art form. I don't think we're ready just to go back to calling everything comics just yet.
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I think it's definitely the time to stop bastardizing the name, which is why I get so anal about it. Comics are about as close to being a respected medium as they're going to get anytime soon. Comic book movies are one of the most lucrative "genres" out there. Heroes is one of the top rated network series currently airing. The fact that I can go into a bar wearing a Captain America T-Shirt and still talk to people is sign enough for me that it's time to just call them what they are. The term "all ages entertainment" has never been so acceptable as this day and age with the popularity of Harry Potter, Spider-Man and the resurgance of Nintendo. People are starting to accept that something can be kid friendly while still appealing to adults. I don't think I've met a new person in about three years without mentioning that I'm a comic book geek in the first half hour and I really can't say a single person has looked upon that with any disrespect.
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0bsessions has a point about how we treat ourselves and our acceptance in loving comics, but Khar, you hit what you were trying to say on the head. You successfully explained the difference between comics, graphic novels, and manga. This has nothing to do with calling the medium, comics. The japanese are completely entitled to calling their similar craft manga, the same as anime, instead of cartoons. Who are we to tell them that since we came up with the idea first, they have to name theirs the same way?
Either way, since I don't want to be involved in an argument about something I love, 0bsessions has every right to claim unwavering loyality to being open about comic geekiness, but this has nothing to do with distinguishing comics and graphic novels. The term was invented to refer to different formats. Comics never used to be released in big, chapter-bound format. Instead, an issue might come out every month. Like novel and novella refer to differently sized stories. Think of the comic, in trade terms, as a short story, and the graphic novel as a full blown, bound, paperback story, or a collection of short books.
So, I agree that they should all just be called comics, but there are still different kinds of comics, and then genres.
Like there are tubs of ice cream, and cones, and then there are flavors.
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You speak as if that's the defined notion of a graphic novel as opposed to simply your own personal viewpoint.
Most of the most widely known and critically acclaimed "graphic novels" are simply collections of comic books. Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns, for example, were originally published in a non-open ended, serialized "mini-series" comic book format before getting the trade paperback treatment and earning the moniker of "graphic novel."
Even Alan Moore, the guy who wrote some of the most well known "Graphic Novels" of all time, like Watchmen and The Killing Joke, doesn't much care for the term:
2000 Alan Moore Interview (http://www.blather.net/articles/amoore/northampton.html).
It really is, in my view, a term that's hurting the industry. It separates and causes a mass-media distinction between comic books and "legitimate" literature and further harms the industry's intentions of becoming a largely marketable format.
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anything that Alex Ross is involved with, his art is amazing and he doesn't go along with a bad story, no matter the publisher iv'e never been let down
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I'll probably get shot at for suggesting a manga, but anything by Osamu Tezuka is awesome. He is a brilliant author and illustrator.
Transmetropolitan by Brian Michael Bendis (I think) is pretty good, as is Superman Red Son.
Spiderman: Blue really moved me and is beautifully done.
Another graphic novel worth reading is the Akira series, but only if you have the time to read 6 telephone books. :lol:
Keep open minded!
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God I wasn;t even going to say buyt Hellsinbg is so fucking good. If there's anything in thios world I ama fanboy of. Every manga, everty dvd, every soundtreack...also I have written fan fiction and I have been to an anime convention dressed as Alexander Anderson. I even said the Hellsing Prayer live on stage in a scottish accent dressed as andersaon wbhich is TOTALLY UN CANNON. I KNOW. The hellsing prayewr is protestant and wahtever.
IN THE NAME OF GOD, IMPURE SOUYLS OF THE LIVING DEAD SHALL BE BANISHED INTO ETERNAL DAMNATIO)N. AMEBN.
(In one of the fanfics i wrote integra became a vampire and fucked seras. I was 16, and this lesbian vampire fanfic consumed more effort than all my GCSEs put together.
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Best Drunk Post of '07.
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Jimmy Corrigan and Invincible.
Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid On The Earth is a story of a middle aged man and his battle with ineptitude and makes heavy use of non-sequitur and flashbacks.
Invincible is Robert Kirkman's take on the "teen with superpowers" genre, and it just kicks ass.
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Man, I'm not even joking about that yuri hellsing fanfic. It's over 41,000 words in length.
That's longer than several classic works of literature.
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nice to know, but at the same time, not really.
Also, another thing worth reading is Lone Wolf and Cub and Samurai Executioner
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Khar, I think you should post that fanfic.
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BONE!
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I didnt like hellsing..I read the first manga book of it and it seemed like it moved too fast.
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I'm sure most here would not suggest Johnny The Homicidal Maniac, but believe me, it is a great read despite the trendy Hot Topic goers who love it. I promise.
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I'd have to disagree, but based off of having actually read it myself, as well.
I find Vasquez's material in general does not age well past the teen years. While I'd say it was all hilarious when I was seventeen, it just doesn't hold up. It worked well as a satire of the Hot Topicesque culture, but unless you still associate with anyone who falls under the cliches involved, it tends to lose its luster.
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They just made a graphic novel adaptation of Brian Jacques "Redwall" and it is pretty awesome. The only reason I got it is cause I'm a nerd for his books, and I've got to say it is nothing short of awesome. It's Illustrated by Bret Blevins, but contains the entire story from Jacques' children's book. If even just for the author's name being similar to a certain webcomic artist, I'd say pick it up. Well worth it.
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Watchmen
A thousand times yes.
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BONE!
Bone is one of those things from my childhood that I will never stop loving. If anyone here hasn't read it, you owe it to yourselves to give it a shot. It's just great, epic storytelling.
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Further jocking Bone as well. If you like asterix, read Bone.
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Bone is always a yes. Even though getting the complete Bone book is cheap, I recommend the new colored versions from Scholastic. Nothing is changed except for the characters being giving an amazing amount of life akin to the colors on the covers of the original Bone editions. It is perfect, and they are $10 each, which is amazing considering how expensive TPB's are. the colored version of Old Man's Cave just came out a few months ago and the seven should be arriving soon.
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Holy shit, I almost forgot Bone existed.
First I'm listening to NOFX, and now forgetting Bone, what the shit is wrong with me?
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Someone already mentioned Box Office Poison, but I'll second it.
Also, if you like memoirs, but don't want to spend a lot of time on them, I'd suggest any of Jeffrey Brown's stuff. They're small, cute books and fun to read.
Also, Scott McCloud's stuff, though it's theory and not story, is good. Seriously good. Also, Will Eisner's theory stuff is good, but I find his actual writings to be just decent (if not overtly racist).
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So, Love & Rockets has yet to be mentioned. This is a CRIME. If y'ain't yet read Love & Rockets, it is best to start with the recently released big ass compendiums Maggie the Mechanic and Heatrbreak Soup to give you a good look at the work of both of Los Bros Hernandez (Jaime and Gilbert, respectively). And even though they're compendiums, they're pretty cheap, like 15 USD I think. But anyways. Everyone should know and love Love & Rockets.
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#1 Graphic Novel, according to Time Magazine (http://www.achewood.com)
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So, Love & Rockets has yet to be mentioned. This is a CRIME. If y'ain't yet read Love & Rockets, it is best to start with the recently released big ass compendiums Maggie the Mechanic and Heatrbreak Soup to give you a good look at the work of both of Los Bros Hernandez (Jaime and Gilbert, respectively). And even though they're compendiums, they're pretty cheap, like 15 USD I think. But anyways. Everyone should know and love Love & Rockets.
Indeed. I feel ashamed that I neglected to mention it.
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mmmk. if ur lookin for insperation or just enjoyment of a novel, "a Midnight Opera" will give both, Hans is completly self taught.and the guy who does "Spawn" says it kicks ass!lol. secondly, "Blade of the Imortals"
its bloody its depraived...its scary at times. BUT it has some of the best art work ever to grace a graphic novel of any kind. Hiroaki Samura is THE TOP artist in Japan. if ur lookin to learn about writing and drawing graphic novels, these two will help ALOT
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Hellboy: One of the greatest stories ever told. Made up of Mignola's wonderful art, composition (this is actually art in itself) and writing. The stories involve real mythical characters and stories Mignola has researched and studied and turned into his own universe. In my opinion the film was good and is what turned me to the comics. I'm aware a lot of people didn't like the film, for those people: The book is in no way like the film, read it now you bastards. The fact that its ongoing and that there are other Hellboy universe titles such as B.P.R.D. and Lobster Johnson out right now just makes it that tiny bit more perfect. In fifty years it will be considered a historical classical read.
Scott Pilgrim: A brilliant Canadian ongoing graphic novel series. It is hilarious with its pop culture references, strange funny manga like drawings and general all around awesomeness. The only way Scott Pilgrim can date the girl of his dreams is if he can be the Seven Evil Ex Boyfriends.
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Same as Hellboy, the graphic novels are much better than the movie. Same writer as Watchmen, From Hell and many other incredible books. Alan Moore (the writer) is certainly as important to the creation of graphic novels as Bob Dylan, Elvis and The Beatles were to Rock & Roll.
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Throw my voice as one in favor of Transmetropolitan as well, that shit was absolutely amazing. Spent three days holed up reading the whole thing.
Also, if you're into some really bizarre stuff, look for volumes 1 and 2 of NEXTWAVE: Agents of H.A.T.E...D-list Marvel heroes brought together by a sorta SHIELD-esque organization. Shit gets blown up, satire is abundant, stereotypes are embraced, and Marvel canon is seriously challenged. If you wanna feel sexually uncomfortable about robots, read NEXTWAVE.
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I also have to heavily recommend Maus.
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I'm a little tired to read text walls that came before me, but this made me chuckle.
For an ongoing series, I'd Recommend Deadpool. Some of the funniest material I've read in awhile.
For a one-book type thingy, I actually need to read more of those...
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Yes! Nextwave is hilarious. If you're a huge comic nerd there are plenty of references to note (like the gun-chair-thing from Elektra: Assassin), and even if you're not the humor is pretty accessible.
Has...has anyone mentioned Little Nemo in Slumberland/In the Land of Wonderful Dreams? Though it may not be a "graphic novel" in any sense, if you can get your hands on any it is super-awesome vintage comics headtrips.
Also someone's probably mentioned A Contract with God by Will Eisner, but it's worth mentioning a couple times. A Contract with God is considered by many to be the first "graphic novel" if that means anything to you or you care at all, but seriously: this is the dude they named the award after. His work is nothing to spit at.
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I second the fun of Scott Pilgrim, Ghost World, and anything by Neil Gaiman.
I also recommend Transmetropolitan by Warren Ellis about a journalist in a really disturbing future.
And if you haven't lost your childish fun love of pirates, and adventure- One Piece.
I prefer using the term graphic novel when talking with people who know nothing about comics, simply because otherwise they will assume they know what I'm talking about and that it involves silly men in tights who think fighting off burglars is more important in a world than solving real problems. By calling them graphic novels I get a chance to explain before people assume. Silly, yes, but language is full of stereotypes and preconceptions, so what can ya do...
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I'm pretty sure that when people say A Contract with God was the first "graphic novel" they meant it was the first published volume of comics that in itself was a complete and stand-alone story, beginning to end, much like a novel. Basically a one-shot.
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http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/ (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/)
A great graphic novel that is also online! You can easily get addicted to this one.
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Fun fact: Beyond Time and Again by George Metzger used the phrase "graphic novel" something like two years before Eisner did A Contract With God.
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Being as I am ignorant of the history of such things, I figured something like this would come up. You will note I was careful never to say that it absolutely was the first graphic novel ever, but that "people say" or "it is considered."
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I actually just learned about its existence on Wednesday, so that was me eager to mention it. I prefaced it with "fun fact" in an attempt to NOT look like a jerk, but now I read what I wrote and it just looks like a big pile of sarcasm. Damn it!
I am trying to teach myself about comics history, but at the moment my knowledge of it is patchier than... (an extremely patchy thing).
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Okay forums, I have a favor to ask.
I currently have $60 in gift cards for Borders, and since Borders is Amazon with just books, cds, and dvds, I was thinking of getting a bunch of comics.
So, I could get the entirety of Love and Rockets Palomar and the Maggie/Hopey stories, I get more Sandman starting at five, more Fables starting at four, get caught up with The Walking Dead, or start Preacher, Transmetropolitan, or the Invisibles. There are so many choices to make. Should I get a mix? Help me, forums! Please?
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I identify with your indecision. Haven't read Preacher, so I couldn't argue with that, but I'd say Fables.
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Preacher is nothing short of amazing. Transmetropolitan is probably my favorite all time series. Anything Garth Ennis or Warren Ellis touches is gold, The Punisher MAX, The Boys, Fell, Midnighter, et al, are all great in addition to the two i've already mentioned. 100 Bullets is good too, and I highly recommend it to anyone who is a fan of noir/crime drama, even if you are not a huge fan of comics to begin with. The Walking Dead and Marvel Zombies are all around zombie goodness. Batman: The Long Halloween and Batman: Dark Victory are indescribably good, and it's the goddamn Batman. As far as superhero comics are concerned, Cable and Deadpool, Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men and Invincible all rank among my favorites, although, as of One More Day, the men in tights have been pretty lame.
<Obligatory Alan Moore/Frank Miller dicksucking goes here>
Also on my reading list:
(new and old) Hellblazer
The Sword
Criminal
Proof
Also; Scott Pilgrim Scott Pilgrim Sharknife Scott Pilgrim
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If it counts, I've heard nothing but good things about the Death Note manga series.
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I'm personally a big fan of both Death Note and Tarot Cafe, both mangas not American graphic novels.
Death Note is more of a Japanese psychological game of cat and mouse between killer and detective. It requires thought through the schemes and monologues of Light and L (later other inidividuals) while breaking the seriousness from time to time with comic relief. Tarot Cafe is a Korean manga with beautiful art and accurate tarot illustrations. As someone whose done research on tarot cards I can say the artist certainly did her homework when she design the comic as she integrates tarot mythology and symbolism flawlessly into the storyline.
But that turned more into a review than a recomendation didn't it?
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Wet Moon by Roos Campbell.
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I would like to add support to everyone that has suggested Alan Moore's 'Watchmen', because it is a marvelous graphic novel that everyone should read sometime during their life.
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I'd got with Preacher as well. A lot of that other stuff is really good, but Preacher is something that's in class of its own.
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Not to make a big deal out of it, but most of you are forgetting - or missing out on - some really good shit.
Fun Home by Alison Bechdel
La Perdida by Jessica Abel
It's a good life if you don't weaken by Seth
The Playboy by Chester Brown
AND... if you're willing to invest the time and money....
LOCAS: The Hopey and Maggie Stories by Jamie Hernandez
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Another really good book that not enough people are reading is Scott Pilgrim. It's about a guy named Scott Pilgrim who must defeat a girl's seven evil exs in order to be able to continue dating her. The fact that it takes place in some odd version of Canada where life seems to run on the same rules as video games is just the icing on the cake.
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Holy crap how do I keep doing this?
EDITTED AWAY
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Shameless Plug! Read mine, you can buy it at http://www.lulu.com/content/1895580 (http://www.lulu.com/content/1895580).
It's all about personal relationships.
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Mmmhhh.... Read these:
Max's El luengo sueno de el Senor T., Bendi's noir graphic novels, C. Brown's I never liked you, J. Brown's Clumsy, Comes' Silence, Blanket's Craig Thomspon, Koslowsky's Three fingers.
I can continue, but the list will become too long!